Archiepoptart
Vital 1st Team Regular
No not if you're target is aspirational.
Clem post match
- Thread starter shotshy
- Start date
So...let's see . Learning from failure means you didn't fail. I think there's a contradiction in there somewhere.
markinkent
Vital Football Hero
Call it learning from experience then
OneSirKeefy
Vital Football Hero
Very harsh.
I mentioned this on another thread. Our “pathetic” (your words) efforts in the transfer market have included paying fees for Nichols, Hawkins, Dieng, Andrews, Hutton, Ogie and others. We hadn’t paid a transfer fee under Scally for years iirc.
We also paid big wages to the likes of Masterson, JW, Mahoney, Malone, Bonne etc etc. Definitely not cheapskate.
The one very poor side of our recruitment is up front. And yet we have almost certainly tried to get Alfie May and JCH. The efforts have been far better and bear no resemblance to a “scally era” recruitment unless you go back to 2016 and earlier.
Very unfair comparison.
I'm all in favour of that but not post-rationalising failure as success. Our season has been a disappointment in terms of results, progress, entertainment and value for money. I'm not apportioning blame, just being realistic.Call it learning from experience then
Personally I believe Clemence should get another shot, hopefully with a better balanced team that does include goalscorers.
Unrealistic targets are the biggest de-motivator you can find. Honestly, I don't think the playoffs were unrealistic, that's why I consider our season a failure.
LancsGordoRoad
Vital Champions League
In the context of developing a fresh attacking force for 24/25, I agree.
But, to be fair, I think Mahoney has widened our play this season and he`s one of the few players we have who will take people on, both out wide and across the pitch. At Bradford he was the only Gills player who, in barmy weather conditions, played the ball on the ground and took on the opposition in an intelligent effort to drive up the pitch.
Not saying that I wouldn`t prefer the lad Olaigbe who, when playing for Harrogate last season, tortured our left back with rapid, incisive wing-play; or Dan Agyei, who did the same to us while a Crewe player. I`d like to think that we might be looking to inject their kind of pace into the 24/25 Gills.
Archiepoptart
Vital 1st Team Regular
If we do better ie finish higher in the table than last season then to me this season isn't a failure.
All I ever ask from Gills is that they're competitive over the season and with a bit of luck push for a promotion/play-off place.
I've got to admit some of the football this year has been bum numbingly boring though
HerrLjunga
Vital 1st Team Regular
We ended last season near the top of the form table, yet we're ending this one at the bottom as things stand. We're still the lowest goalscorers in the division and still struggling to take hold of games against sides with budgets far, far lower than our own.
It's really not BBB to suggest we should be able to dominate at least some of the weaker opponents in the division given the calibre of some of the players we signed and the financial outlay we've made. In how many of the 43 games we've played have we really dominated and blown a side away?
There's every chance we could finish 16th with our current form and tough remaining fixtures given every side from there up has at least a game in hand on us. That, for me, is an abject failure given the resources involved and the pre-season rhetoric from the ownership and management.
BG - "Our expectation is promotion."
It's really not BBB to suggest we should be able to dominate at least some of the weaker opponents in the division given the calibre of some of the players we signed and the financial outlay we've made. In how many of the 43 games we've played have we really dominated and blown a side away?
There's every chance we could finish 16th with our current form and tough remaining fixtures given every side from there up has at least a game in hand on us. That, for me, is an abject failure given the resources involved and the pre-season rhetoric from the ownership and management.
BG - "Our expectation is promotion."
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NWBluesFan
Vital Reserves Team
Interesting one on Mahoney.
If he's prepared to commit, his quality (in glimpses) has been much needed.
With that said, he cannot be our second best attacking option. He's a good creator and if he plays in a 433, we need someone very different (fast, direct, powerful) on the other flank.
We just aren't a threat to go in behind with Mahoney and Andrews at the spearhead. It has to change or we're not improving.
If he's prepared to commit, his quality (in glimpses) has been much needed.
With that said, he cannot be our second best attacking option. He's a good creator and if he plays in a 433, we need someone very different (fast, direct, powerful) on the other flank.
We just aren't a threat to go in behind with Mahoney and Andrews at the spearhead. It has to change or we're not improving.
Fair points from many re not having a decent forward line but I think our midfield have been utter gash. We supposedly have numerous players there that have good track records at this level and above yet persistently do f### all for us. We could have Harry Kane up front but wouldn't score many more.
A Centre Back is our top scorer ffs.
I'd bin all but Coleman from the midfield.
In all of the emotion post Harrogate, the vast majority of supporters have lost all objective reasoning.
I actually don’t think we’re a million miles away from success. So what’s missing?
1. We got to go back to our roots. Fuck Como. Let’s graft it out in Dartford, Welling and Folkestone. Bin luxury players and get in some passionate grafters.
2. A bit more firepower up front to support Andrews.
3. An enforcer who will take no shit from other team members and who will put in the occasional crunching tackle.
4. A manager who has a Club First mentality; not a Player First mentality. Replace the friendliness with Alex Fergusson hair-dryer treatment.
5. And by far the biggest thing: attack at pace and move the ball quickly. How many times have we had a counter attack opportunity only to slow the play down to allow the opposition to reset? There’s a time for tiki-taka football round the back line - but it isn’t when we’re on a counter attack.
We need some stability. We can’t go making wholesale changes again. Trust in the process. Work hard in pre-season. Supplement the squad with some quality additions.
One other thought on stability. The whole purpose of a DOF is to have someone looking at the long term vision. That’s essential because the first team coach is only interested in the next game. You can’t have a long term vision if you’re constantly changing your DOF.
I actually don’t think we’re a million miles away from success. So what’s missing?
1. We got to go back to our roots. Fuck Como. Let’s graft it out in Dartford, Welling and Folkestone. Bin luxury players and get in some passionate grafters.
2. A bit more firepower up front to support Andrews.
3. An enforcer who will take no shit from other team members and who will put in the occasional crunching tackle.
4. A manager who has a Club First mentality; not a Player First mentality. Replace the friendliness with Alex Fergusson hair-dryer treatment.
5. And by far the biggest thing: attack at pace and move the ball quickly. How many times have we had a counter attack opportunity only to slow the play down to allow the opposition to reset? There’s a time for tiki-taka football round the back line - but it isn’t when we’re on a counter attack.
We need some stability. We can’t go making wholesale changes again. Trust in the process. Work hard in pre-season. Supplement the squad with some quality additions.
One other thought on stability. The whole purpose of a DOF is to have someone looking at the long term vision. That’s essential because the first team coach is only interested in the next game. You can’t have a long term vision if you’re constantly changing your DOF.
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
At the last (and relatively recent) Open forum, our DOF hadn't ruled out automatic promotion this season. He got a few weird looks even from his colleagues.
Impressive vision.
OneSirKeefy
Vital Football Hero
Absolutely this.
We all, quite rightly, keep blaming our recruitment for being poor. It has definitely been poor in forward areas. But I, and I think most of us, lauded the signings of Jonny Williams, George Lapslie and Connor Mahoney among others in midfield.
Those 3 don’t “supposedly” have good previous records. They absolutely DO have great previous records. All scored and assisted very regularly.
On paper those 3 should terrorise L2 opposition. They were definitely quality previously in 2 pretty good L2 teams (Swindon and Mansfield) and Mahoney in the Championship.
For whatever reason, each has only been decent in odd spells and none of them has dominated any game for us or won us a game off their own back. The fact JW and GL have (I think) 2 goals between them is appaling. And I think only a couple of assists.
NWBluesFan
Vital Reserves Team
Just a thought here - not all players are motivated in the same way. Some need the kick up the backside, some prefer a more relational approach. We need a manager who can understand how best to motivate individuals, not apply a carte blanche methodology.
A lot of players will simply tune out the hair dryer treatment so we need to avoid making sweeping generalisations that's the best fit.
Additionally, I've heard Clemence multiple times from the sidelines demanding players move the ball quicker. Safe to say, he sees that too - getting players confident to do that takes time and, in some cases, changes in personnel. He's away. A bigger issue for me is positional IQ/movement. You can only pass if a player is in a good position to receive the ball...
NWBluesFan
Vital Reserves Team
JW has been amongst our better creators (keep in mind some of Hutton's will be Swindon based) and he#s more frequently played out wide (which I don't believe is his best position).
Lapslie, I agree - for a guy playing mostly in a 10 role, it's nowhere near enough.
The one that most bugs me is dribbles per 90.
We just don't run with the ball enough, or try to beat a man. If we're no threat to go past someone, we'll be easier to defend.
jokerman
Vital Football Hero
That's why I always operate with two (or more) sets of targets for myself.
Vambogills
Vital Football Hero
SC will already know who he wants to keep and what positions need improving. Prime targets will already be identified and may well include some players who enjoyed working with him previously.
This isn't Fantasy Football so we may retain a few more of the current squad than some on here would like, but that's down to the sustainable budget line taken by BG.
What's clear is that we need a combative leader and a dynamic creator and scorer of goals. Both expensive but necessary if you don't want to be a 'nearly' club.
This isn't Fantasy Football so we may retain a few more of the current squad than some on here would like, but that's down to the sustainable budget line taken by BG.
What's clear is that we need a combative leader and a dynamic creator and scorer of goals. Both expensive but necessary if you don't want to be a 'nearly' club.
I wouldn't be surprised if we went for Sean Ragett again. We were rumoured to want him last year but he wanted to stay and fight for his place at Pompey. He got back into the team after the player who took his place was injured,but he'll probably be back on the sidelines if he stays ,and that's a big if, because he's out of contract in the summer and it's unlikely Pompey will offer him a new deal. He is 30 now though.
I think the dribbles stat is the style that we play. All of our attacking play comes from Hutton’s crosses, never by a player dribbling around someone. The only player to do that was Hutado.
