Good Morning Thread | Page 926 | Vital Football

Good Morning Thread

80deg16minW said:
I think you need to take a harder look at who is saying it before dismissing it.
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I have, stooges for Russians, it's laughable. Russia has bought so many influencers in Russia/North America now, you have to see the wheat from the chaff and the Russians have been brilliant at being strategic whilst the west slept. It's why there is a rump of pro-Russians Politicians in the USA, like Moscow Marge - they are bought and paid for and really need to be investigated - all have links with Russians businesses and money.

they are a disgrace to America and the West.
 
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Spursex said:
No, for the last 15 years, it's been trying to expand it, no matter what the cost, no matter what the price. That's Putin's self-stated imperialist ambition writ large. Failing to recognise it, is the collective West's failure., Trump actually warned Germany and Western Europe what they were doing, but Merkle and others were Russian agents of influence and ignored him.
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Yes. But it is push back against Europe's expansionism.
 
80deg16minW said:
That's fair, but a good price to heat your home wins over past wrongs.
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It really won't. Most of Western Europe have transitioned and just like 'home working' was inevitable (it was 10x sped up by Covid )- getting off of Russian fuel has done the same to getting non-dependent on what they produce (at least in the bulk of the west)....more has to be done and will be done.
 
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80deg16minW said:
Yes. But it is push back against Europe's expansionism.
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I really think you need to read up on Putin's early goals and how he was going to do it = his first ambition was by force of arms or economic means was to 'unite the old soviet union and Russian speaking peoples' under his banner and under his control.

The problem is, most didn't want anything to do with him or Russia.

They wanted self-determination and freedom of actions - two things Putin and the Duma told them they would never allow.

We even got scared and refused Ukraine access to the EU and NATO - until he attacked in his comical 3 day special operation.

No one, apart from their sycophantic allies will trust them until Russia is a different country and that might take 30-40 years, it won't be quick.

Energy demands are going to be met by a whole host of new measures - most of which are already in motion.
 
Spursex said:
It really won't. Most of Western Europe have transition and like 'home working' was inevitable it was 10x sped up by Covid - getting off of Russian fuel has done the same to getting non-dependent on what they produce (at least in the bulk of the west)....more has to be done and will be done.
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It will.
Spursex said:
I really think you need to read up on Putin's early goals and how he was going to do it = his first ambition was by force of arms or economic means was to 'unite the old soviet union and Russian speaking peoples' under his banner and under his control.

The problem is, most didn't want anything to do with him or Russia.

They wanted self-determination and freedom of actions - two things Putin and the Duma told them they would never allow.

We even got scared and refused Ukraine access to the EU and NATO - until he attacked in his comical 3 day special operation.

No one, apart from their sycophantic allies will trust them until Russia is a different country and that might take 30-40 years, it won't be quick.

Energy demands are going to be met by a whole host of new measures - most of which are already in motion.
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This has nothing to do with trust. And the early assertions of what Putin was after were just dogmatic responses to a strong leader who scared people.
 
Spursex said:
I have, stooges for Russians, it's laughable. Russia has bought so many influencers in Russia/North America now, you have to see the wheat from the chaff and the Russians have been brilliant at being strategic whilst the west slept. It's why there is a rump of pro-Russians Politicians in the USA, like Moscow Marge - they are bought and paid for and really need to be investigated - all have links with Russians businesses and money.

they are a disgrace to America and the West.
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There are plenty of stooges on both sides.
 
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NATO is a defence organisation, it was set up in order to protect it's members from threats of attack or invasion of their sovereign territory. There is, and never has been, any kind of mandate for the organisation to behave offensively, it's only Putin who perceives it to be a threat because it suits his purpose to do so.
 
80deg16minW said:
Despots have nothing to do with it. Poor countries want what we have and what right do we have to tell them how to live.

Global warming will happen. It's time to adapt to that reality instead of fighting something that will happen anyway and would happen anyway without human inputs.
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China does not giv e a shit about net zero...they are burning more coal than ever ...the Despots running their country DO NOT care. The poor countries are not threatening other countries such as Russia and Ukraine and China and Taiwan and indeed South Korea for example
 
Spursex said:
How you give credence to Putin and his behaviour by trying to explain it away, is quite amazing!
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I give it zero credence. In this discussion I am not saying what is right or wrong just looking for what led up to it. Why things happened and what the motivations are. I am trying not to colour it with any isms. There are reasons other than "he is a bad man" that have moved us to where we are. The Real Politik of the situation is he knew Biden and Europe, Europe largely because they knew they would not get any help, would not get directly involved. Trump scared the shit out him (and everyone else on the planet including me) so he would not have moved if he had been re-elected. And I am not supporting Trump with that statement. Just stating what I believe to be true.
 
Greavswasthegreatest said:
China does not giv e a shit about net zero...they are burning more coal than ever ...the Despots running their country DO NOT care. The poor countries are not threatening other countries such as Russia and Ukraine and China and Taiwan and indeed South Korea for example
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Nor do India, Africa, most of South America and plenty of other developing nations that want what we have.

So we need to adapt to the changes in the planet as we always have. On the upside, population growth is slowing everwhere.
 
TQ2Spurs said:
NATO is a defence organisation, it was set up in order to protect it's members from threats of attack or invasion of their sovereign territory. There is, and never has been, any kind of mandate for the organisation to behave offensively, it's only Putin who perceives it to be a threat because it suits his purpose to do so.
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It's a show of strength. It can be interpreted both ways. Especially if there is a lack of trust which is most certainly the case. Tie that to the EU's actions and if you're on the opposite side of this you look at it very differently.
 
Spursex said:
It really won't. Most of Western Europe have transitioned and just like 'home working' was inevitable (it was 10x sped up by Covid )- getting off of Russian fuel has done the same to getting non-dependent on what they produce (at least in the bulk of the west)....more has to be done and will be done.
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Our idiot, hopefully short lived, government has said no to LNG export development and Biden is talking about limiting exports for the same green reasons.

Europe will have to buy from Russia if any of these things come to fruition. Add to that the post-war magnanimous environment and the taps will be turned on again.
 
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