Season Tickets | Page 3 | Vital Football

Season Tickets

It’s quite a short-term approach from the club; cash in while we’re still Premier League and worry about the medium and long-term when they show up on your doorstep. That would be nice and ambitious if we weren’t somehow flirting with relegation in one of the weakest Premier Leagues I can remember.

For me it will never be a question of if we get relegated, but rather when. No matter who is in charge at the club, we never seem to have either a solid financial or football strategy to be a success. We’re just winging it and hoping it stays together. If not for Steve Cooper, it never would have even got to this point.
 
I can afford it.

But my worry is that we'll end up like a lot of Championship clubs; charging £600-700 a season ticket for second tier football that is shite with a club that never goes anywhere.

There are loads of clubs at that level where the cheapest is £500. At Norwich the most expensive is £900.

Now these are up to the 500-700 mark, they won't ever go down again.

It is to the club's credit that I have paid between £300-400 for over a decade. It has always been good value. It will not be as a bottom half championship team again, back to talking constantly about getting players off the wage bill
 
I gotta take a stand. I’m bullshit. I put up with everything. My old man pushes me around. I never say anything! Well he’s not the problem, I’m the problem. I gotta take a stand. I gotta take a stand against him. I am not gonna sit on my ass as the events that affect me unfold to determine the course of my life. I’m gonna take a stand. I’m gonna defend it. Right or wrong, I’m gonna defend it…I am so sick of his shit! I can’t stand him and I hate this goddamn car! Who do you love?! Who do you love?! You love a car! Son of a bitch…(laughs) Shit. I dented the shit out of it. Good. My father will come home, he’ll see what I did, I can’t hide this. He’ll come home, he’ll see what I did, he’ll have to deal with me. I don’t care, I really don’t. I’m just tired of being afraid. Hell with him. I can’t wait to see the look on the bastard’s face.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
It's the method of delivery of the announcement & subsequent tweets though, someone described it as passive aggressive - with 11000 people waiting in the wings to snap up your ST if you don't renew!!

I don't think many fans fail to recognise the fiscal support that the owner has put into our club (notwithstanding a fair amount of financial mismanagement) and I'd be confident that everyone expected an increase in renewal prices, but there are limits - this is just not palatable for many people and the timing is all wrong, when you really should be trying to galvanise the support ahead of 2 crucial home fixtures.

I've tried to reflect and rationalise, but my biggest worry is that we have bigger financial problems ahead and that this is actually a necessity.... probably overthinking it though!

Still disappointed!
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My concern is that this is further evidence that we are not as well run as we would like to think we are.
I’ve been searching for all encompassing term as to the overall problem at the club, and this announcement tells me what it is.

Short sighted

Who on earth thought this announcement at this time was a good idea ?
It’s a massive own goal from the club, it really beggars belief. It’s almost if the hierarchy can’t see the reality of the situation we are in.
 
Do, or not do....there is no try.

Does anyone think the management give two shits about what you, I, Forza, Sunak, RBC, Calvin Plummer or the EPL think...of course they don't.

I'm going to renew, but, if your seat is in a more central position in the BCU lemme know, and i'll take your membership number.

Its the pointless and childish belly aching that does my swede in; like it was going to be 'owt different.
 
Strett said:
Nail. On. Head.

It is the governments fault Forest's season cards are going up.
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May as well blame them for this as we blame them for everything else which is the truth in most things I guess! But not this. This is PSR. If revenue is where you have to increase to even try and compete this is the inevitable consequence, having said that this is terrible timing and could they not have waited?
Just returned to the area after having lived in London for 21 years with my job which meant I didn’t have a season ticket anymore so I am surprised even with the increases in prices how relatively cheap thy are. Back in Loughton my next door neighbor an Arsenal fan was paying over 6 grand a year for 3 season tickets for him and his lads
 
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TMFwanstead said:
May as well blame them for this as we blame them for everything else which is the truth in most things I guess! But not this. This is PSR. If revenue is where you have to increase to even try and compete this is the inevitable consequence, having said that this is terrible timing and could they not have waited?
Just returned to the area after having lived in London for 21 years with my job which meant I didn’t have a season ticket anymore so I am surprised even with the increases in prices how relatively cheap thy are. Back in Loughton my next door neighbor an Arsenal fan was paying over 6 grand a year for 3 season tickets for him and his lads
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There are many threads to this discussion.

Do Forest need to put up prices? It is only a small % of income and helps with atmosphere. Both true, it is equivalent to Arters wages but is a chunk of PSR. Forest do not need to put it up by 24% but they do need every £m for present PSR and future squad costs divided by income. Supply and demand shows it could take an increase. Only Burnley, Shef U and Luton, possibly Brentford are lower at lowest and highest seat price. Even after the 24% rise we remain well in lower price range.

Why do it now? Why not wait till end of season? It will help with projections to show IC appeal panel that a slap across wrist not point penalty is more appropriate. If we can get money in for 24/25 season before end of or just after end of 23/24 season it can go in to end of June 24 accounts. Thus making next season overspend or summer fire sale less likely.

Forest could make two smaller % increases. For example 12% this year and 12% next. Would there be less complaining if so. Doubt it. Inflation will be down in single figures next year maybe below 5%. Would fans readily accept another 12% hike on top of this years when annual inflation is lower?

This is driven by P&R both present and potential new rules and predicament Forest are in. This is the PL making. Forest are responding to the situation and the crazy timelines set up.

Forests problem was the 45 new arrivals and how that was reported. The club, due to circumstances had to go big. Maybe 30 additions would have been more acceptable. Transfers in football is not an exact science. For every Lingard, Dennis and Frueler there is a Murillo MGW and Elanga. We had huge misfortune with injuries and this season goalkeeping issues. Can’t plan and price for those difficulties. If Forest had been more conservative in spending we may still have bought the likes of Bianconne and Dennis but not MGW and Murillo.

If we want premiership football the club has to reflect that in its finance sheets. The consequence is increase in demand with no increase in supply. We have to comply with the rules, present and future as fixed by cartel.

Hopefully Forest remain in PL where compliance with rulings will become easier and rulings less restrictive. Such price hikes will not be repeated as this is a one off due to a range of circumstances. (Covid, inflation, P&S rules, PL time limits, Govt intervention) Forest have plans to assist its supply. A speedy solution would be helpful and an increase of supply with seats available across the price range but particularly at the lower end and low prices for certain groups would be helpful. The PL has driven this increase and much is out of NFFC control. This can come back under their influence with ground improvements and I hope to see such a venture. Until then we just have to suck it up.
 
forestfire_59 said:
As I can’t get to matches anyway, I guess I am able to take a more dispassionate view of this. For me the issues are:-

To what extent do season tickets constitute overall revenue. To make the maths easy let’s say 30,000 x £500 = £15 million? With sky at say £100 million and advertising/hospitality ? So attendance 10 to 15% of total revenue.

If we go down we won’t get the sky money but will get parachute payments instead. So the proportion suggested above rises substantially.

As stated in previous posts, it’s supply and demand. 10k on waiting list. No doubt you can get cheaper tickets at Derby County, Notts County and Mansfield 🤭

If we go down, to what extent can we reduce costs? Bye Bye Dominguez, MGW, Danilo and anyone else ?

Even if we stay up will we be able to keep the same quality of players and stay within sustainability rules.

Is it cynical from the club to try to get money in the bank before we know which devision we are in? Or is it reasonable to give existing ticket holders as much time as possible to renew.

No easy answers
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The ST renewals are broadly the same time every year - there have been 'early bird' offers in the past though.

That said, our year end is 30th June - this is the key date for accounting/PSR purposes, so delaying renewal until our fate was known for 2 weeks is of no detriment.

Would I renew with a modest increase if relegated = YES.

That said, IF we get relegated, you wonder how many others would actually renew at those inflated prices - but with the window closing with 2 games left, the choice is somewhat taken away.

This could go very wrong - how many of those 11000 'waiting in the wings' will pay £700 for Championship football?

I've used £700 because this is the category impacted the most and whilst we 'could' move to cheaper seats, the renewal still has to be done before the window closes.

Theoretically, if we move to say Lower Trent End or Capital One Corner (as was), then the 'refund' is broadly equivalent to what we paid last year (excluding the increase for 'new' punitive youth category) & thus, the club have to refund monies!

Furthermore, if you pay on a credit card and then we get relegated, you can use the DCS protection of CCA and seek a full refund from the credit card provider, who gets reimbursed by the club.

As I said, this could become very messy!

What's worse, is that despite the backlash from most supporters groups - the silence from our supposed lifelong Forest fan Chairman is deafening. His disconnect is worse than that of Rishi Sunak.
 
CornishForest said:
My concern is that this is further evidence that we are not as well run as we would like to think we are.
I’ve been searching for all encompassing term as to the overall problem at the club, and this announcement tells me what it is.

Short sighted

Who on earth thought this announcement at this time was a good idea ?
It’s a massive own goal from the club, it really beggars belief. It’s almost if the hierarchy can’t see the reality of the situation we are in.
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Totally agree - myopic!

Our Chairman put his name to it and clearly the owner/management group signed it off.

I thought he (Chairman) was one of us, a fan, but his lack of empathy and disrespect is astounding.

I'm so glad that Forza, NFFC Trust, FSA & all the other fan groups are aligned in their condemnation.

As I said, I can afford it - but, others can't and this really is about principle.... if it was about money, then it's blindingly obvious that we have the wrong people, making wrong (albeit understandably tough) decisions.

We know the financial predicament, but you should never bite the hand that feeds.

In my opinion, it's an own goal - when the club needs our support the most!
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Totally agree - myopic!

Our Chairman put his name to it and clearly the owner/management group signed it off.

I thought he (Chairman) was one of us, a fan, but his lack of empathy and disrespect is astounding.

I'm so glad that Forza, NFFC Trust, FSA & all the other fan groups are aligned in their condemnation.

As I said, I can afford it - but, others can't and this really is about principle.... if it was about money, then it's blindingly obvious that we have the wrong people, making wrong (albeit understandably tough) decisions.

We know the financial predicament, but you should never bite the hand that feeds.

In my opinion, it's an own goal - when the club needs our support the most!
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How is it biting the hand that feeds, given the largest single contribution (in the EPL, at least) is TV money and behind that EM writing off loans?

If footballers didn't need the energy of a crowd, you could well imagine EPL games being played in front of a stadium entirely of corporate boxes generating tens of millions a game.

Sad to say, Nottingham Forest IS NOT the fanbase anyone, and to be frank it never was.
Like it or lump it, as customers we are presented with an opportunity to renew our subscription to the service, that that service could possibly be downgraded for an increased cost...well, thats the choice you have to make.

And whichever fan group wishing to say whatever they want is brill, fantastic...but, so what?
Will it change the ticketing prices or structures? No.
Will the club respond? Unlikely.
Will people snap up the STs if those bitching about the increases do not? Maybe.

Do the management care? Absolutely not.

Can people act like grown-ups and stop throwing their toys left, right and centre? Unclear.
 
Polly 433 said:
There are many threads to this discussion.

Do Forest need to put up prices? It is only a small % of income and helps with atmosphere. Both true, it is equivalent to Arters wages but is a chunk of PSR. Forest do not need to put it up by 24% but they do need every £m for present PSR and future squad costs divided by income. Supply and demand shows it could take an increase. Only Burnley, Shef U and Luton, possibly Brentford are lower at lowest and highest seat price. Even after the 24% rise we remain well in lower price range.

Why do it now? Why not wait till end of season? It will help with projections to show IC appeal panel that a slap across wrist not point penalty is more appropriate. If we can get money in for 24/25 season before end of or just after end of 23/24 season it can go in to end of June 24 accounts. Thus making next season overspend or summer fire sale less likely.

Forest could make two smaller % increases. For example 12% this year and 12% next. Would there be less complaining if so. Doubt it. Inflation will be down in single figures next year maybe below 5%. Would fans readily accept another 12% hike on top of this years when annual inflation is lower?

This is driven by P&R both present and potential new rules and predicament Forest are in. This is the PL making. Forest are responding to the situation and the crazy timelines set up.

Forests problem was the 45 new arrivals and how that was reported. The club, due to circumstances had to go big. Maybe 30 additions would have been more acceptable. Transfers in football is not an exact science. For every Lingard, Dennis and Frueler there is a Murillo MGW and Elanga. We had huge misfortune with injuries and this season goalkeeping issues. Can’t plan and price for those difficulties. If Forest had been more conservative in spending we may still have bought the likes of Bianconne and Dennis but not MGW and Murillo.

If we want premiership football the club has to reflect that in its finance sheets. The consequence is increase in demand with no increase in supply. We have to comply with the rules, present and future as fixed by cartel.

Hopefully Forest remain in PL where compliance with rulings will become easier and rulings less restrictive. Such price hikes will not be repeated as this is a one off due to a range of circumstances. (Covid, inflation, P&S rules, PL time limits, Govt intervention) Forest have plans to assist its supply. A speedy solution would be helpful and an increase of supply with seats available across the price range but particularly at the lower end and low prices for certain groups would be helpful. The PL has driven this increase and much is out of NFFC control. This can come back under their influence with ground improvements and I hope to see such a venture. Until then we just have to suck it up.
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Best post I have read on this issue
I am in full agreement
 
BlackGold said:
How is it biting the hand that feeds, given the largest single contribution (in the EPL, at least) is TV money and behind that EM writing off loans?

If footballers didn't need the energy of a crowd, you could well imagine EPL games being played in front of a stadium entirely of corporate boxes generating tens of millions a game.

Sad to say, Nottingham Forest IS NOT the fanbase anyone, and to be frank it never was.
Like it or lump it, as customers we are presented with an opportunity to renew our subscription to the service, that that service could possibly be downgraded for an increased cost...well, thats the choice you have to make.

And whichever fan group wishing to say whatever they want is brill, fantastic...but, so what?
Will it change the ticketing prices or structures? No.
Will the club respond? Unlikely.
Will people snap up the STs if those bitching about the increases do not? Maybe.

Do the management care? Absolutely not.

Can people act like grown-ups and stop throwing their toys left, right and centre? Unclear.
Click to expand...

All that is fine, whilst NFFC remain an EPL club - relegation changes the fiscal spectrum.

Why does protesting and showing your anger/feelings against somethings that's unfair constitute not acting like grown-ups and fans should therefore stop throwing their toys left, right and centre?

How can it not be biting the hand that feeds?

It's not just the Season Ticket revenue, it is what those supporters then spend on the concessions, merchandise, tickets for cup games etc.

As mentioned, how many of those mythical 11000 will spend £700 on a Championship ST?

During Covid, it was the generosity of these die hard supporters that helped the club by paying for season tickets that couldn't be used!

It was, by & large, those same supporters that paid for season tickets when this club languished in L1, that stuck by the club in the Championship - supporters that turned up, rain or shine - when there were less than 20k most weeks!

There could have been an 'across the board' increase in prices at a more palatable level, say 10% and there would not have been this backlash!

I have no doubt that most will renew, some under duress, but for a minority they won't be able to and to have that choice taken away by the entity that you have supported for so long is appalling.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
All that is fine, whilst NFFC remain an EPL club - relegation changes the fiscal spectrum.

Why does protesting and showing your anger/feelings against somethings that's unfair constitute not acting like grown-ups and fans should therefore stop throwing their toys left, right and centre?

How can it not be biting the hand that feeds?

It's not just the Season Ticket revenue, it is what those supporters then spend on the concessions, merchandise, tickets for cup games etc.

As mentioned, how many of those mythical 11000 will spend £700 on a Championship ST?

During Covid, it was the generosity of these die hard supporters that helped the club by paying for season tickets that couldn't be used!

It was, by & large, those same supporters that paid for season tickets when this club languished in L1, that stuck by the club in the Championship - supporters that turned up, rain or shine - when there were less than 20k most weeks!

There could have been an 'across the board' increase in prices at a more palatable level, say 10% and there would not have been this backlash!

I have no doubt that most will renew, some under duress, but for a minority they won't be able to and to have that choice taken away by the entity that you have supported for so long is appalling.
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Thats v true, if we were to be relegated.
And the timing of the renewal date has obviously been chosen for good reason.

Maybe, if there was true camaraderie amongst the fanbase, no-one would renew and none of the "11k" would take their tickets.

The club would have to choose another period of exclusivity, with reduced ticket costs for championship football.

Anyways, its funny, really.

We are fans not customers.
However, everything the club does points to the fact customers is all we are.
Heck, we even have a "customer number", why not fan number (its a minor thing, just interesting is all).
Anyways, when the fanbase need to act like customers i.e. react with your feet, be a savvy consumer etc etc, no-one wants to do that.

Its why all the bleating, anger, wailing and gnashing of teeth is kind of irritating, cos that simple truth seems to elude folk...whether wilfully, or not.
 
Most PL clubs sell out. Ashy have to reserve a % for away fans and a small % for sales most clubs sell season tickets in advance. A quick look around the country shows most clubs have a closure for renewing tickets of 28th April. They also nearly all run waiting lists. They have all brought date forward for both seats and waiting list to enable the final financial sheets to be written up and signed off at board level prior to sending to PL before end June. They have to be audited prior to end Dec.

Forest has one of the latest season ticket renewal closure dates. To delay till end of season, though not impossible, will make it open to late sign off, arrival and penalties at PL. We have had problems with paperwork, deadlines and fax sheets in the past. Ask Blackburn and LOB.
 
Polly 433 said:
Most PL clubs sell out. Ashy have to reserve a % for away fans and a small % for sales most clubs sell season tickets in advance. A quick look around the country shows most clubs have a closure for renewing tickets of 28th April. They also nearly all run waiting lists. They have all brought date forward for both seats and waiting list to enable the final financial sheets to be written up and signed off at board level prior to sending to PL before end June. They have to be audited prior to end Dec.

Forest has one of the latest season ticket renewal closure dates. To delay till end of season, though not impossible, will make it open to late sign off, arrival and penalties at PL. We have had problems with paperwork, deadlines and fax sheets in the past. Ask Blackburn and LOB.
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But Forza Greg was adamant, on the Forest Focus podcast, that the May 10th deadline was only to put pressure on fans to give in and accept the heinous price hikes through renewal.

Are you saying he's misinformed, and its actually for accounting particulars?
 
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