Here we go!

[Pope John XXIII]

Absolute nonsense. Democrats have been out to get the Russians for some time. Putin loves Biden . He loves dealing with the predictable. Expect the following deal if Trump is elected:- War ends on current borders (i.e eastern Ukraine annexed) , deal on security , Eu forming part of the EU, money for Ukraine to rebuild other damaged parts of the country.

Nope.

All American support for Ukraine ended overnight. Zelensky will be told by Trump to make a deal on Putin's terms.

Behind the scenes, threats will be made to NATO allies about economic and political punishment if they continue to fund Ukraine. Most of this will already be well underway.

America may not pull out of NATO because Trump may not have the power to do so unless he declares martial law, as some of his people are suggesting, and destroys the institutions immediately.

If he keeps congress for the time being, he will make it clear that America will no longer respect Article 5 for countries not spending 2% on defence, which amounts to the same thing as withdrawing from Nato. Trump won't ever respect article 5 for countries that do spend 2% either but he is less likely to have that tested

 

[weejockmcplop]

I don't blame Pope-other than for the expectation that what he is being told by the mainstream media is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth

Lots of other headlines today -some poor bloke is being forced to paint over a muriel depicting Great Britain and Great British fish.

"They" want to destroy any sign of nationalism. Next it will be religion, then it will be your economic freedoms. Then traditional lifestyles. But yet Trump is the threat....apparently

If what you're worried about is threats to nationalism and religion, you should be worried.

Nationalism and religion are absolute fucking poison, and encourage people to see reality in a warped, aggressive and toxic way.

Of course there shouldn't be laws to prevent them, but they should be discouraged by society as much as possible.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

I don't blame Pope-other than for the expectation that what he is being told by the mainstream media is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth

Lots of other headlines today -some poor bloke is being forced to paint over a muriel depicting Great Britain and Great British fish.

"They" want to destroy any sign of nationalism. Next it will be religion, then it will be your economic freedoms. Then traditional lifestyles. But yet Trump is the threat....apparently

Toms

We've had this conversation before. You didn't actually know what nationalism is. It's not a good thing

This is how fascism starts. It doesn't start out by saying "we want to kill x people". It starts out as your friend. It claims to believe the same things you do. It identifies enemies who are to blame for all your problems and promises to get rid of them and protect people like you. It creates threats to your way of life and promises to stop them. It promises to clean the streets, stop crime and make everyone think and behave the way you do

 

[toms]

Nope.

All American support for Ukraine ended overnight. Zelensky will be told by Trump to make a deal on Putin's terms.

Behind the scenes, threats will be made to NATO allies about economic and political punishment if they continue to fund Ukraine. Most of this will already be well underway.

America may not pull out of NATO because Trump may not have the power to do so unless he declares martial law, as some of his people are suggesting, and destroys the institutions immediately.

If he keeps congress for the time being, he will make it clear that America will no longer respect Article 5 for countries not spending 2% on defence, which amounts to the same thing as withdrawing from Nato. Trump won't ever respect article 5 for countries that do spend 2% either but he is less likely to have that tested

Mmmmm sure....best to just continue the killings then and risk World war 3 with a re-elected Biden administration

Rest of your fears are unfounded but I don't see whey a country should be part of Nato if its not paying a contribution

Nope.

All American support for Ukraine ended overnight. Zelensky will be told by Trump to make a deal on Putin's terms.

Behind the scenes, threats will be made to NATO allies about economic and political punishment if they continue to fund Ukraine. Most of this will already be well underway.

America may not pull out of NATO because Trump may not have the power to do so unless he declares martial law, as some of his people are suggesting, and destroys the institutions immediately.

If he keeps congress for the time being, he will make it clear that America will no longer respect Article 5 for countries not spending 2% on defence, which amounts to the same thing as withdrawing from Nato. Trump won't ever respect article 5 for countries that do spend 2% either but he is less likely to have that tested

Mmmmm sure....best to just continue the killings then and risk World war 3 with a re-elected Biden administration

Rest of your fears are unfounded but I don't see whey a country should be part of Nato if its not paying a contribution

 

[toms]

Toms

We've had this conversation before. You didn't actually know what nationalism is. It's not a good thing

We have and I disagreed with you back then . Uk first

 

[Pope John XXIII]

We have and I disagreed with you back then .

And you are wrong I'm afraid. You don't get to just make up your own milder definition.

Nothing wrong with a patriot, nationalism is poison.

Uk first

If you truly believe that then the last thing you should ever want is a Trump presidency/dictatorship

 

[toms]

If what you're worried about is threats to nationalism and religion, you should be worried.

Nationalism and religion are absolute fucking poison, and encourage people to see reality in a warped, aggressive and toxic way.

Of course there shouldn't be laws to prevent them, but they should be discouraged by society as much as possible.

Disagree… nationalism in the context of what I’m saying is to put one’s people’s first . Religion is not the poison , it’s the people who interpret it in a negative or aggressive way. Most of the messages of the New Testament are positive and as a role model Jesus did a pretty good job. I’m not a religious sort but religion is a powerful therapy of peace for many

 

[toms]

And you are wrong I'm afraid. You don't get to just make up your own milder definition.

Nothing wrong with a patriot, nationalism is poison.


If you truly believe that then the last thing you should ever want is a Trump presidency/dictatorship

UK’s interests first and it’s in the Uk ‘s interests to have a supporter in the Whitehouse

 

[weejockmcplop]

Disagree… nationalism in the context of what I’m saying is to put one’s people’s first . Religion is not the poison , it’s the people who interpret it in a negative or aggressive way. Most of the messages of the New Testament are positive and as a role model Jesus did a pretty good job. I’m not a religious sort but religion is a powerful therapy of peace for many

I'm not going to make any definite statements here, but I would wager that at least 95% of all wars ever were caused by either nationalism or religion.
That is reason enough to see them as poison. 100s of millions or billions dead.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Mmmmm sure....best to just continue the killings then and risk World war 3 with a re-elected Biden administration

Yes. That's what we should have done in the mid 1930s. Standing up to Hitler in 1935 or 1936 may well have saved 20 million lives.

Trump will hand Putin whatever he wants because Putin absolutely owns the guy. I suspect Putin may even have invented Trump to some degree.

Rest of your fears are unfounded but I don't see whey a country should be part of Nato if its not paying a contribution

And you understand NATO no more than Trump does.

Countries don't pay a contribution. It is about how much of GDP they spend on their own defence. There isn't a "bill" like Trump claims. I still think he doesn't actually understand that.

 

[toms]

Yes. That's what we should have done in the mid 1930s. Standing up to Hitler in 1935 or 1936 may well have saved 20 million lives.

Trump will hand Putin whatever he wants because Putin absolutely owns the guy. I suspect Putin may even have invented Trump to some degree.



And you understand NATO no more than Trump does.

Countries don't pay a contribution. It is about how much of GDP they spend on their own defence. There isn't a "bill" like Trump claims. I still think he doesn't actually understand that.

And we’ve had this debate where I quoted specific passages about NATO and contributions .

 

[Pope John XXIII]

UK’s interests first and it’s in the Uk ‘s interests to have a supporter in the Whitehouse

So the very last person you would want is Trump, who is absolutely 100% clear "America First". He doesn't mean all of America of course, just those who support him.

Trump categorically doesn't give a shit about Britain. He gives a shit about anyone who is "nice" to him, temporarily. But he won't do anything for Britain. He had four years to do a trade deal, got nowhere near one.

And for him it is always zero sum. He won't do a deal that is mutually beneficial; it always has to benefit him (personally, not America) more.

I can't believe you don't understand how dangerous this man is

 

[Pope John XXIII]

And we’ve had this debate where I quoted specific passages about NATO and contributions .

Which are not in question; it is about spending on defence

 

[toms]

I'm not going to make any definite statements here, but I would wager that at least 95% of all wars ever were caused by either nationalism or religion.
That is reason enough to see them as poison. 100s of millions or billions dead.

Wars are caused by bad people

 

[weejockmcplop]

Wars are caused by bad people

Bad people are caused by nationalism and religion.
They use the basic tenets of these two things, the exceptionalism that nationalism is based on, and the idea that incorrect religious beliefs are sinful/evil.

 

[toms]

So the very last person you would want is Trump, who is absolutely 100% clear "America First". He doesn't mean all of America of course, just those who support him.

Trump categorically doesn't give a shit about Britain. He gives a shit about anyone who is "nice" to him, temporarily. But he won't do anything for Britain. He had four years to do a trade deal, got nowhere near one.

And for him it is always zero sum. He won't do a deal that is mutually beneficial; it always has to benefit him (personally, not America) more.

I can't believe you don't understand how dangerous this man is

The puppet in the whitehouse is the most dangerous person in the world right now.

 

[toms]

Bad people are caused by nationalism and religion.

No they are just power hungry creeps.

 

[toms]

So the very last person you would want is Trump, who is absolutely 100% clear "America First". He doesn't mean all of America of course, just those who support him.

Trump categorically doesn't give a shit about Britain. He gives a shit about anyone who is "nice" to him, temporarily. But he won't do anything for Britain. He had four years to do a trade deal, got nowhere near one.

And for him it is always zero sum. He won't do a deal that is mutually beneficial; it always has to benefit him (personally, not America) more.

I can't believe you don't understand how dangerous this man is

You may remember we had Covid for a large portion of his presidency…hardly the most pressing issue .

The funniest thing will be if it’s Starmer / Trump

 

[weejockmcplop]

No they are just power hungry creeps.

How much death and destruction have been caused by the Carter Doctrine?
This is independent of the people who are in charge. It is the doctrine itself, that US economic interests around the world must come first before any other concerns, a nationalist doctrine, that caused so much horror and death.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

When someone shows you who they are, believe them

https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/s/hEvr5eMlt3