Sorry, is this the same Shaw that managed Gainsborough Trinity for a year, led them to about an 18th placed finish in the league, and had a reputation for moaning at referees constantly?
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cdhIMP
Vital 1st Team Regular
That's the one!
I'll tell you why I never want to see the Cowleys back. The season when they left after a few games, after stating they were happy here and not looking to move, but suddenly the Angel Gabriel made them see the light (or was it just the salary on offer), the recruitment had been exceptionally poor, from memory all we had added was about four midfielders? And they left us at short notice with quite a poor squad (0-6 Oxford Utd just after). They then managed to keep Huddersfield up, but allegedly put ridiculous demands on recruitment and getting rid of existing players, and the chairman said, quite rightly, no thank you. Since then, what have they added to that impressive cv. Not a lot, I believe.
They were great first time around, an organised pair in a disorganised club, but get them back in, with respect, no thank you.....
Skip155
Vital Champions League
I'm not really convinced that our out of possession work is very good. Yes in isolation our defensive numbers look good but that comes at the heavy price of possession and attacking stats.
We do seem to be well drilled. I think we know our triggers, when to press and when to sit back, but are the triggers defined correctly. If we don't get possession and don't go on to mount effective attacks then are the triggers too negative, making our off the ball defensive stats look good?
We do seem to be well drilled. I think we know our triggers, when to press and when to sit back, but are the triggers defined correctly. If we don't get possession and don't go on to mount effective attacks then are the triggers too negative, making our off the ball defensive stats look good?
SteveSpence
Vital Newbie
Ten bob says that we hire the failed hun Beale.
clanfordimp
Vital 1st Team Regular
No, Appleton took us to the League 1 playoff final AND to our highest placed league finish in 40 years.
If you want to dress Kennedy's
record up he achieved a
respectable 11th place finish last
season, 15 points off the playoffs
and 17 points off relegation.
We conceded 47 goals all season, the same as Plymouth who were actually league champions.
The trouble was that we only scored 47 goals, the 6th lowest total in the league.
I don't think the Cowleys form or the recruitment was bad in the short time they were here in the 2019/20 season. In the league it was W4 D1 L4 -13 points. Also we beat Huddersfield in the League Cup and sold Toffolo shortly afterwards for ,I think,£K 500.
I think all these things are interwoven.
Statistics alone don't tell you the answer.
The main criticism with MK was lack of ambition in style?
If the opposition are crap, long ball is the way to go....because there is no risk at your end but you will get the ball back.(local park level)
If the opposition are better, long ball is not the way to go because you will never see the ball and you will end up defending and defending until you eventually concede.(Top club and international level).
L1 in my mind is the cusp of where these 2 extremes meet.
Most teams can keep the ball if they set out to but not many have great teeth to punish a resolute defence.
Most teams will however be able to hit an over ambitious team on the counter.
So all these different elements work to a point.
The ultimate answer is to have better players than the opposition....
So you can be - good without the ball - which we are - but also then good with the ball - which is where the jury is out.
Out possibly because we didn't try to keep the ball...but it did precluded being counter attacked or cocking up while passing around at the back.
Interesting even allowing for the sending off last Saturday we had 58% possession and played a passing game much more.....
....and we were much more vulnerable to the counter attack.
All steps forward have a nearly equal step back.
(including pressing more aggressively).
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woodworkimp
Vital Youth Team
I think it’s a very precarious position to be in, the next 3/4 games could heavily decide what part we play in the rest of the season.
The recruitment wasn't exceptionally poor at all - Morrell, Walker, Grant and Connolly came in. Payne wasn't a disaster, just not good enough in the end and Lewis had an Eardley sized problem in front of him.
Hesketh didn't work out, nor did Coker or Bradley (who went out on loan for the most part of his spell here).
imp73
Vital Squad Member
I think a lot of that is unfair. A significantly higher salary from a championship club to former P.E teachers with no professional football career behind them would be genuinely life changing - if you begrudge them for being tempted by the money you would have to begrudge everyone.
I'm sure they have had a reality check after their experiences at Huddersfield and Portsmouth. Their whole matra is about being willing to adapt and learn - and there is no reason to think they wouldn't.
Hmm... i think they were a bit more than that!
German Imp
Vital Football Hero
And tbf, I think the fans at the time were fully onboard with the appointment if I recall correctly.
mikeosullivan
Vital Squad Member
The Cowleys were rightly ambitious during their first spell here. They wanted to manage at the highest level, just as players want to play at the highest level.
At the start of the season they left, Clive would have known offers for their services would happen at any time. And if the Cowleys felt it was good for ther career, they would most likely accept.
How anyone can criticise the Cowleys for that is beyond me.
If they return now, the club's ambitions have changed since they left because of the new investment and theirs will have lowered a little, making it a good match for me.
At the start of the season they left, Clive would have known offers for their services would happen at any time. And if the Cowleys felt it was good for ther career, they would most likely accept.
How anyone can criticise the Cowleys for that is beyond me.
If they return now, the club's ambitions have changed since they left because of the new investment and theirs will have lowered a little, making it a good match for me.
nlondonimp
Vital Champions League
Gets complicated. You mention mounting effective attacks after gaining possession. I wonder, who was coaching attacking patterns once we had the ball?
because no doubt to me we were constantly losing possession quickly in attacking areas, putting pressure back onto the out of possession work.
Absolutely right, I cannot understand why so called City fans want to rewrite their own version of history. No managers have ever had the impact they had, no one has ever won as many trophies, no one has earnt the club more money and no one has galvanised the whole City as they did.
They get accused of not developing players so do not fit the current project.
Harry Toffolo signed for nothing, nurtured him into a brilliant player and sold for £500k. Bruno Andrade, Harry Anderson, Alex Woodyard and Sean Raggett were all DC products plucked from nowhere for peanuts and prospered. Old stagers Neil Eardley, Matt Rhead and average pros like Paul Farman and Luke Waterfall playing way above their previous capabilities.
All the money they spent was self generated and even when they left they allegedly earned us £1million.
What more could any club want?
nlondonimp
Vital Champions League
Tilson fell into the category of ‘done well, but always at one club’, so a risk he could translate that to club number 2. which unfortunately is the category Bradley falls into as well.
I'd have the Cowleys back in a second tbh. Like a few have said I understand if people would prefer a different approach but I really don't get the attempts to talk down their achievements or the really strong objections. Their record puts them right up there with the best managers we've ever had, they're available, get them back for me. Not really bothered what might have happened at Huddersfield or Portsmouth.
nlondonimp
Vital Champions League
Big difference between being in charge of managing a team in competitive games, and coaching one section of the play. Which mk found out.
Shaw is about to find that out again for a couple of our games, I take what you say about his management at Gainsborough, hope he has learned from it, and can put on a good show this weekend. Open mind on shaw from me, let’s see what happens.
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