The international Break thread..

[Gary Onedaysoon]

Spurs to fine players for going against club's wishes and flying to red-list zone for World Cup qualifiers

Cristian Romero and Giovani Lo Celso caught up in centre of storm caused by Premier League players flying to red-list countries

By Matt Law, Football News Correspondent 6 September 2021 • 10:39am

Argentina internationals – and Premier League players – Emiliano Martínez and Giovani Lo Celso walk off after their World Cup qualifier with Brazil was abandoned on Sunday Credit: AP

Tottenham Hotspur did not give Cristian Romero and Giovani Lo Celso permission to meet up with the Argentina squad with the pair facing club fines on their return from South America.
Romero, a £42.5 million summer signing from Atalanta, and Lo Celso are two of the four Premier League players at the centre of the remarkable World Cup qualifying coronavirus row between Argentina and Brazil.
But while Aston Villa had given their Argentine duo, Emiliano Martínez and Emiliao Buendia, permission to play in the fixture that was suspended, Telegraph Sport can reveal Spurs did not give the green light for Romero and Lo Celso to travel.
Premier League clubs had unanimously decided not to release players for international matches played in red list countries due to Fifa’s current position not to extend its temporary release exception for players required to quarantine on their return from international duty.
Unlike Villa, Tottenham stuck to that agreement but were ignored by Romero and Lo Celso, and the pair will have awkward questions to answer on their return. They are set to face club fines for travelling against the wishes of the club.
Davinson Sánchez also went against Tottenham’s wishes by accepting his call-up to the Colombia squad and he too can expect a club fine.
Tottenham are sensitive to the desire of the players to represent their country and also of the pressure that was put on the Premier League players to meet up with the Argentine squad.
But the worst fears of Spurs were realised on Sunday night, when Brazilian health officials claimed Argentina’s Premier League players had broken quarantine rules to play against Brazil by not declaring they had been in the UK in the past.
Under Brazilian rules, visitors who have been in the UK in the 14 days before entering the country must quarantine for 14 days on arrival.
By meeting up with the Argentine and Colombia squads, Romero, Lo Celso and Sánchez have made themselves unavailable for Tottenham’s trip to Crystal Palace on Saturday.
Spurs had arranged for the trio to return via Croatia, to serve their isolation without having to spend 10 days in a quarantine hotel in England, but it is unclear whether or not Romero and Lo Celso will now be made to return straight back to the UK.
Romero and Lo Celso are believed to have been on the flight that took the Argentina squad back to Buenos Aires on Sunday night ahead of Argentina’s final game of the international break against Bolivia on Friday.
The brother of Villa goalkeeper Martínez, Alejandro, appeared to suggest that plans to send the Premier League players straight to Croatia had been, at least temporarily, scrapped.
Speaking with Radio Rivadavia, Martínez said: “The only thing he knows is that he will not be able to travel from Brazil to Croatia, he is deported and has to go through Argentina.”

Wasn't it widely reported at the time that Spurs had allowed their players to travel?

 

[Spursex]

Wasn't it widely reported at the time that Spurs had allowed their players to travel?

I can't recall that, but I've not been paying much attention since the international break was started.

 

[muttley]

Wasn't it widely reported at the time that Spurs had allowed their players to travel?

How much of that article is fact versus fiction?

I'm guessing there would have been repercussions for not releasing fit and available international players.

It is an absolute mess.

 

[muttley]

So Reguilon called up to Spain squad for the Kosovo match.

 

[OcDorMin]

Did that transfer strategy of buying ready made replacements ever work well for Spurs then?

A lot of us would argue that it is exactly the wrong strategy for a club like Spurs. We need to follow the Leciester model and be picking off the best youngsters and nurturing them.

It worked brilliantly.

The core of the most successful Spurs team in PL history was built through buying 25+ experienced, international players internationals who played European football with clubs:

• Lloris - 26 years old when joined
• Verts - 25
• Toby - 26
• Dembele - 25
• Wanyama - 25

I'd argue that buying young foreign talent is the riskiest approach we've taken so far,. Here's a partial list of players who were 23 or younger when joined:
Lamela, N'Jie, N'koudo, Janssen, Chirces, Yedlin, Wimmer, Foyth, Lo Celso, Ndombele

The only young players we bought abroad and really made it are Modric, Eriksen, Dier played in Portugal so classing as foreign) and Sanchez, and only Modric & Eriksen were world class.

The best success we had was buying young local talent (Bale, Rose, Walker, Dele), something we abandoned completely, and I hope we resolve this soon.

The reality is that any transfer is risky business, but IMO we really need a balanced approach,and this window we placed all the eggs in one basket - the riskiest one.

 

[Spursex]

It worked brilliantly.

The core of the most successful Spurs team in PL history was built through buying 25+ experienced, international players internationals who played European football with clubs:

• Lloris - 26 years old when joined
• Verts - 25
• Toby - 26
• Dembele - 25
• Wanyama - 25

I'd argue that buying young foreign talent is the riskiest approach we've taken so far,. Here's a partial list of players who were 23 or younger when joined:
Lamela, N'Jie, N'koudo, Janssen, Chirces, Yedlin, Wimmer, Foyth, Lo Celso, Ndombele

The only young players we bought abroad and really made it are Eriksen, Dier played in Portugal so classing as foreign) and Sanchez, and only Eriksen was world class.

The best success we had was buying young local talent (Bale, Rose, Walker, Dele), something we abandoned completely, and I hope we resolve this soon.

The reality is that any transfer is risky business, but IMO we really need a balanced approach,and this window we placed all the eggs in one basket - the riskiest one.

Arguably, the risk/reward benefit given our current position as a club is one we had to take.

 

[OcDorMin]

The club again failing in dealing with internationals, this time with clear PL backing to stop players from going to international duty if isolation is required.

Now Sanchez and Romero won't be able to play the Palace game (at least), and with Rodon injured we're changing our back line completely after a stellar start.

Bloody Spursy.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

How much of that article is fact versus fiction?

I'm guessing there would have been repercussions for not releasing fit and available international players.

It is an absolute mess.

I haven't followed it too closely to be honest. Wouldn't the Premier League be in contravention of FIFA's own rules by banning players from travelling to 'red list' countries?

 

[OcDorMin]

Arguably, the risk/reward benefit given our current position as a club is one we had to take.

Sure, but that doesn't nullify the success we had with buying established players.

But not a single young British talent to take a risk on, is or me inexcusable.

 

[Spesh-Spur]

Are these INT games over yet!?

 

[meee93]

I'm not really comparing the players. I am comparing if they are upgrades or downgrades to the first 11. This has gotten out of context. I wanted immediate upgrades from super Paratici and the loss of Lamela for an unproven project is not an upgrade YET !! Immediate and YET being the key words.

Lamela rarely started games. So your whole point about Gil replacing him not upgrading the first 11 is redundant. He's a promising talent who has so far looked sharp and a good addition to the squad.

If your focus is on the starting 11 then you wouldn't be mentioning Lamela at all.

 

[muttley]

It worked brilliantly.

The core of the most successful Spurs team in PL history was built through buying 25+ experienced, international players internationals who played European football with clubs:

• Lloris - 26 years old when joined
• Verts - 25
• Toby - 26
• Dembele - 25
• Wanyama - 25

I'd argue that buying young foreign talent is the riskiest approach we've taken so far,. Here's a partial list of players who were 23 or younger when joined:
Lamela, N'Jie, N'koudo, Janssen, Chirces, Yedlin, Wimmer, Foyth, Lo Celso, Ndombele

The only young players we bought abroad and really made it are Eriksen, Dier played in Portugal so classing as foreign) and Sanchez, and only Eriksen was world class.

The best success we had was buying young local talent (Bale, Rose, Walker, Dele), something we abandoned completely, and I hope we resolve this soon.

The reality is that any transfer is risky business, but IMO we really need a balanced approach,and this window we placed all the eggs in one basket - the riskiest one.

So to me, guys like Eriksen, Dele, Rose, Walker, Son and Kane were as much part of the core. Even Dier who always played 40-50 games at our peak each season.

For me, we haven't placed all eggs in one basket though. It's about the squad, not the transfers. Look at the substitutions from last season to this:

Jose's: Hart, Whiteman, Aurier, Toby, Sissoko, Lamela, Bale, Gedson
Nuno's: Gollini, Austin, Emerson, Romero, Sess, Skipp, Gil, Clarke

There is only 3 of the 8 that come in from abroad. A loose 4 if we factor in Sess playing in the Bundesliga. That was inevitably in the thinking of Nuno and Fabio.

To your point though, what we didn't do is buy a player or two from the Prem. Even someone like Neves is 24 and has considerable experience in our top flight. I would have liked to have seen that and I have a feeling, so would Fabio. We clearly couldn't make it happen.

What we have done is take a squad where half of them were 28 years or older and reduced that to about a quarter. I'm guessing that is also about sorting out the culture in the squad as well.

 

[meee93]

Spurs to fine players for going against club's wishes and flying to red-list zone for World Cup qualifiers

Cristian Romero and Giovani Lo Celso caught up in centre of storm caused by Premier League players flying to red-list countries

By Matt Law, Football News Correspondent 6 September 2021 • 10:39am

Argentina internationals – and Premier League players – Emiliano Martínez and Giovani Lo Celso walk off after their World Cup qualifier with Brazil was abandoned on Sunday Credit: AP

Tottenham Hotspur did not give Cristian Romero and Giovani Lo Celso permission to meet up with the Argentina squad with the pair facing club fines on their return from South America.
Romero, a £42.5 million summer signing from Atalanta, and Lo Celso are two of the four Premier League players at the centre of the remarkable World Cup qualifying coronavirus row between Argentina and Brazil.
But while Aston Villa had given their Argentine duo, Emiliano Martínez and Emiliao Buendia, permission to play in the fixture that was suspended, Telegraph Sport can reveal Spurs did not give the green light for Romero and Lo Celso to travel.
Premier League clubs had unanimously decided not to release players for international matches played in red list countries due to Fifa’s current position not to extend its temporary release exception for players required to quarantine on their return from international duty.
Unlike Villa, Tottenham stuck to that agreement but were ignored by Romero and Lo Celso, and the pair will have awkward questions to answer on their return. They are set to face club fines for travelling against the wishes of the club.
Davinson Sánchez also went against Tottenham’s wishes by accepting his call-up to the Colombia squad and he too can expect a club fine.
Tottenham are sensitive to the desire of the players to represent their country and also of the pressure that was put on the Premier League players to meet up with the Argentine squad.
But the worst fears of Spurs were realised on Sunday night, when Brazilian health officials claimed Argentina’s Premier League players had broken quarantine rules to play against Brazil by not declaring they had been in the UK in the past.
Under Brazilian rules, visitors who have been in the UK in the 14 days before entering the country must quarantine for 14 days on arrival.
By meeting up with the Argentine and Colombia squads, Romero, Lo Celso and Sánchez have made themselves unavailable for Tottenham’s trip to Crystal Palace on Saturday.
Spurs had arranged for the trio to return via Croatia, to serve their isolation without having to spend 10 days in a quarantine hotel in England, but it is unclear whether or not Romero and Lo Celso will now be made to return straight back to the UK.
Romero and Lo Celso are believed to have been on the flight that took the Argentina squad back to Buenos Aires on Sunday night ahead of Argentina’s final game of the international break against Bolivia on Friday.
The brother of Villa goalkeeper Martínez, Alejandro, appeared to suggest that plans to send the Premier League players straight to Croatia had been, at least temporarily, scrapped.
Speaking with Radio Rivadavia, Martínez said: “The only thing he knows is that he will not be able to travel from Brazil to Croatia, he is deported and has to go through Argentina.”

Wait, so UK quarantine rules dictate that if they are coming from Croatia to the UK then they don't need to quarantine even if they were very recently in a red list country? What a garbage rule that really is. You might as well not have any country on the red list. No wonder the world is in such a mess with the lack of conviction given to travel rules during a pandemic.

Mind you I'm just surprised that FIFA/EUFA/CONMEBOL/FA/Premier League/UK gov/Colombel/whoever else sticks their nose into football, haven't payed arranged a deal to get footballers exempt yet.

 

[Spursex]

Sure, but that doesn't nullify the success we had with buying established players.

But not a single young British talent to take a risk on, is or me inexcusable.

We have 4 or 5 that we'll be taking risks on this season, maybe even 6; the twins,
Maksim Paskotsi, Nile John, Alfie Devine and of course Scarlett..and not forgetting Marcel Lavinier so our 'home grown' contingent is there to be risked, beyond that any established English young talent is a) not interested or b) not a wise monetary risk given that the english premium can be over 100%...

 

[meee93]

This is a big mess.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1434797410937679872

https://twitter.com/x/status/1434757013846769668

"[Michal Borowy]: The Argentina NT has already arrived in Buenos Aires. Later today Emiliano Martinez and Emiliano Buendia will depart to Croatia for a 10-day quarantine, as agreed by the AFA, the players and Aston Villa. Romero and Lo Celso so far remain in squad for a game against Bolivia "


So it seems that the Croatia quarantine is actually for players who leave international duty early, but unlike the Villa ones, the Spurs Argentinians are staying on for the next game.

Fortunately Sanchez was booked (and apparently didn't play well against Paraguay) and so I think is suspended for their next game. So you would imagine that he will be returning now too via Croatia. So our starting 11 might be all available for the Chelsea game (but not Palace).

 

[muttley]

This is a big mess.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1434797410937679872

https://twitter.com/x/status/1434757013846769668

"[Michal Borowy]: The Argentina NT has already arrived in Buenos Aires. Later today Emiliano Martinez and Emiliano Buendia will depart to Croatia for a 10-day quarantine, as agreed by the AFA, the players and Aston Villa. Romero and Lo Celso so far remain in squad for a game against Bolivia "


So it seems that the Croatia quarantine is actually for players who leave international duty early, but unlike the Villa ones, the Spurs Argentinians are staying on for the next game.

Fortunately Sanchez was booked (and apparently didn't play well against Paraguay) and so I think is suspended for their next game. So you would imagine that he will be returning now too via Croatia. So our starting 11 might be all available for the Chelsea game (but not Palace).

It's amazing that Spurs think they have the right to call other PL clubs and decide themselves whether to release players. Just shows how little empowerment The FA have left.

Yet another example of how the governance model in football is just completely broken.

 

[muttley]

I haven't followed it too closely to be honest. Wouldn't the Premier League be in contravention of FIFA's own rules by banning players from travelling to 'red list' countries?

That's my thoughts exactly. Are we going to see players banned from playing this coming weekend as they weren't available for their countries? If not, then it is clear what all clubs should do for the next round of international fixtures.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

Lamela rarely started games. So your whole point about Gil replacing him not upgrading the first 11 is redundant. He's a promising talent who has so far looked sharp and a good addition to the squad.

If your focus is on the starting 11 then you wouldn't be mentioning Lamela at all.

Not exclusively the starting 11 but being a reliable sub as Lamela was. Although he forced his way into the starting 11 many times based on his sub performances.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

I'll try one last time and this is not necessarily related to Gil.

How can you assess whether a player is an upgrade or a downgrade before he has even played for us?

And as to your first point you have, on more than one occasion, said Gil is a downgrade on Lamela.

I believe he currently is a downgrade.

 

[USAFSPURS]

Spurs to fine players for going against club's wishes and flying to red-list zone for World Cup qualifiers

Cristian Romero and Giovani Lo Celso caught up in centre of storm caused by Premier League players flying to red-list countries

By Matt Law, Football News Correspondent 6 September 2021 • 10:39am

Argentina internationals – and Premier League players – Emiliano Martínez and Giovani Lo Celso walk off after their World Cup qualifier with Brazil was abandoned on Sunday Credit: AP

Tottenham Hotspur did not give Cristian Romero and Giovani Lo Celso permission to meet up with the Argentina squad with the pair facing club fines on their return from South America.
Romero, a £42.5 million summer signing from Atalanta, and Lo Celso are two of the four Premier League players at the centre of the remarkable World Cup qualifying coronavirus row between Argentina and Brazil.
But while Aston Villa had given their Argentine duo, Emiliano Martínez and Emiliao Buendia, permission to play in the fixture that was suspended, Telegraph Sport can reveal Spurs did not give the green light for Romero and Lo Celso to travel.
Premier League clubs had unanimously decided not to release players for international matches played in red list countries due to Fifa’s current position not to extend its temporary release exception for players required to quarantine on their return from international duty.
Unlike Villa, Tottenham stuck to that agreement but were ignored by Romero and Lo Celso, and the pair will have awkward questions to answer on their return. They are set to face club fines for travelling against the wishes of the club.
Davinson Sánchez also went against Tottenham’s wishes by accepting his call-up to the Colombia squad and he too can expect a club fine.
Tottenham are sensitive to the desire of the players to represent their country and also of the pressure that was put on the Premier League players to meet up with the Argentine squad.
But the worst fears of Spurs were realised on Sunday night, when Brazilian health officials claimed Argentina’s Premier League players had broken quarantine rules to play against Brazil by not declaring they had been in the UK in the past.
Under Brazilian rules, visitors who have been in the UK in the 14 days before entering the country must quarantine for 14 days on arrival.
By meeting up with the Argentine and Colombia squads, Romero, Lo Celso and Sánchez have made themselves unavailable for Tottenham’s trip to Crystal Palace on Saturday.
Spurs had arranged for the trio to return via Croatia, to serve their isolation without having to spend 10 days in a quarantine hotel in England, but it is unclear whether or not Romero and Lo Celso will now be made to return straight back to the UK.
Romero and Lo Celso are believed to have been on the flight that took the Argentina squad back to Buenos Aires on Sunday night ahead of Argentina’s final game of the international break against Bolivia on Friday.
The brother of Villa goalkeeper Martínez, Alejandro, appeared to suggest that plans to send the Premier League players straight to Croatia had been, at least temporarily, scrapped.
Speaking with Radio Rivadavia, Martínez said: “The only thing he knows is that he will not be able to travel from Brazil to Croatia, he is deported and has to go through Argentina.”

Yep Spurs should fine the shit out of them...they were advised not to go...

Fracking morons...