Match Thread, Forest v Millwall, can we do it ? | Page 9 | Vital Football

Match Thread, Forest v Millwall, can we do it ?

mao tse tung said:
You miss the point!

Yes he missed a couple of chances yesterday when he would have been better off passing the ball; no one would deny that.

But we are now getting players into the box in NUMBERS; that is something we continually failed to do last season.

We are able to do that for two reasons:

1, Grabban is holding the ball up and bringing other players into the game outside the box.

2. Players like Mighten, Kockheart and Cafu are getting into scoring positions inside the box.

It is incredibly difficult for 2 to occur without 1 happening.
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You have selective vision.

Taylor also holds the ball up well, and is more dynamic than Grabban, but you only notice the times when the ball bounces off him.

Personally, I'm happy we have both of them.
 
pebble said:
You have selective vision.

Taylor also holds the ball up well, and is more dynamic than Grabban, but you only notice the times when the ball bounces off him.

Personally, I'm happy we have both of them.
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He doesn't hold the ball up well.

He occasionally holds the ball up.

Big difference.

You are missing the many times the ball comes towards him and goes straight past or just bounces past

It's not his game and it's not something that should be expected of him
 
Pope John XXIII said:
He doesn't hold the ball up well.

He occasionally holds the ball up.

Big difference.

You are missing the many times the ball comes towards him and goes straight past or just bounces past

It's not his game and it's not something that should be expected of him
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Strange, I've often seen him kill the ball with a great first touch while holding off a defender. As I said, selective vision.
 
pebble said:
You have selective vision.

Taylor also holds the ball up well, and is more dynamic than Grabban, but you only notice the times when the ball bounces off him.

Personally, I'm happy we have both of them.
Click to expand...

Taylor is an entirely different player; he comes across as a more natural goal scorer than Grabban; the rest of his game does not come close.

He just does not have the physical strength to hold off players and gets bullied out of situations.

Look at the last two games for example: Against Cardiff, Taylor scored a very good goal and looked a lot livelier than he has done of late, he displayed better body language and looked like he was actually enjoying playing, but we still failed to hold the ball up and gave possession back to Cardiff time and again.

Against Millwall, arguably a better side, we did hold the ball up and retained more possession.

When you constantly give the ball away other players will not commit to moving forward; the full backs stop attacking, the midfield players stop making runs and you end up sitting too deep.

I appreciate two games are not fully representative but they do display the stark contrast between the two players.

Should we change the way we play to suit Taylor; definitely not.

That certainly does not mean he should be written off; he has plenty of time to adapt to what is needed - he could turn out to be a very good player for us.
 
pebble said:
Strange, I've often seen him kill the ball with a great first touch while holding off a defender. As I said, selective vision.
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Cherry picking the times few times he holds the ball up and ignoring his failures sounds like a good definition of being selective
 
Pope John XXIII said:
He doesn't hold the ball up well.

He occasionally holds the ball up.

Big difference.

You are missing the many times the ball comes towards him and goes straight past or just bounces past

It's not his game and it's not something that should be expected of him
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Totally agree

He has plenty of strings to his bow other than brute strength; he should be looking to utilise them more often than he does.
 
mao tse tung said:
Taylor is an entirely different player; he comes across as a more natural goal scorer than Grabban; the rest of his game does not come close.

He just does not have the physical strength to hold off players and gets bullied out of situations.

Look at the last two games for example: Against Cardiff, Taylor scored a very good goal and looked a lot livelier than he has done of late, he displayed better body language and looked like he was actually enjoying playing, but we still failed to hold the ball up and gave possession back to Cardiff time and again.

Against Millwall, arguably a better side, we did hold the ball up and retained more possession.

When you constantly give the ball away other players will not commit to moving forward; the full backs stop attacking, the midfield players stop making runs and you end up sitting too deep.

I appreciate two games are not fully representative but they do display the stark contrast between the two players.

Should we change the way we play to suit Taylor; definitely not.

That certainly does not mean he should be written off; he has plenty of time to adapt to what is needed - he could turn out to be a very good player for us.
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Didn't watch the Cardiff game and I'm not sure it's available on ifollow, but 'we still failed to hold the ball up' sounds like you're not just accusing Taylor.

I'm not knocking Grabban, who's been brilliant for us, but after looking great for a couple of games after returning he's failed to take chances and failed to pass at crucial moments. Taylor came on yesterday and instantly put defenders under far more pressure.
 
Old Red Fart said:
Up at the crack of dawn to find that not only had we gained 3 points but had managed to find the net 3 times as well. Made my day, it's nearly 7 in the evening here and I've not stopped smiling all day. And by the sound of it we played a bit of better football particularly in the second half too.
That's 6 on the trot without loss and obviously this run must end somewhere but a bit of luck at the start helps and of course it's not over yet.

I thought that our best signing out of the last lot was McKenna and still hold that view but am glad to see Mighten starting to show his worth. Also hope our Academy achieves grade 1 as I'm convinced that our future as a decent club lies more with our youngsters than what we've been getting.
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Do yourself a favour and watch the goals, will put that smile right back on your face.
 
mao tse tung said:
You miss the point!

Yes he missed a couple of chances yesterday when he would have been better off passing the ball; no one would deny that.

But we are now getting players into the box in NUMBERS; that is something we continually failed to do last season.

We are able to do that for two reasons:

1, Grabban is holding the ball up and bringing other players into the game outside the box.

2. Players like Mighten, Kockheart and Cafu are getting into scoring positions inside the box.

It is incredibly difficult for 2 to occur without 1 happening.
Click to expand...

This. Grabz is the best you get in the champ. If he scored when he should every time, if he assisted every time when he should he would be playing in the top half of the prem.

Glad that cafu is getting some praise, liked him myself, a player with the intelligence to work with grabz
 
What is the exact definition of' holding the ball'?
How many times did Grabban touched the ball yesterday, especially in the first half and in the second until of second goal?
I imagine to hold the ball well you need to touch it first, how many times did he touch the ball ( Grabs) yesterday and played it back to a player in red?
Yesterday's improvement was more of our midfield getting more forward and putting more pressure on the Millwall players. Usually we let the opposition come with the ball with no pressure right up to the penalty area, and panic is natural. Again. My opinion
 
Grabban maybe holds it better but he doesn't often use it well, either looks to get himself a chance or dwells on it when someone's in decent position to pass to. Taylor maybe doesn't have the same first touch but he rarely let's the defender have an easy header away or let's them settle on the ball, both offer something different. I'd start Taylor Tuesday give Grabban a rest, funny when Taylor came on yesterday he was up front on his own with Grabban taking Cafu's position.
 
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