#COVID19 | Page 715 | Vital Football

#COVID19

JC21 said:
I don't understand your argument with the 'champagne socialists'. Do you think that everyone with a bit of money shouldn't give a fuck about the less privileged then?

I seem to recall you saying a few times about supporting charities. Isn't that kind of 'left wing' of you and you can 'afford' to do it?
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No, I think the ideology is only affordable to those that are already coined. People like df, who has never struggled in real life. Sure, he struggles on the owd world wide web, but he's another **** that doesn't know what its like to have fuck all
 
I'm trying to tell people what to talk about here.

But this is the COVID thread and we've just gone into a third, totally shit lockdown with schools closed and a "stay at home unless you love your children enough to take them to Barnard Castle" message.

How the fuck is the main topic of discussion Labour and Jeremy fucking Corbyn?
 
Apollyon said:
No, I think the ideology is only affordable to those that are already coined. People like df, who has never struggled in real life. Sure, he struggles on the owd world wide web, but he's another **** that doesn't know what its like to have fuck all
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But I doubt anyone on here 'struggles'. So there's no problem in having something (democratic socialism doesn't prevent this, it's not communism) and giving a fuck about people that don't, surely?
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I'm trying to tell people what to talk about here.

But this is the COVID thread and we've just gone into a third, totally shit lockdown with schools closed and a "stay at home unless you love your children enough to take them to Barnard Castle" message.

How the fuck is the main topic of discussion Labour and Jeremy fucking Corbyn?
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I don't know but I'd bet my life that you or CP mentioned him first on this thread
 
Pope John XXIII said:
It's people of all ages in critical care at the moment with this new strain.

Johnson is claiming that once the "vulnerable groups" are done we can ease restrictions.

I think with this new version that is wishful thinking
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Have they released numbers yet on deaths/hospitalization of the different age demographics since this new strain?
 
Will.NFFC said:
Have they released numbers yet on deaths/hospitalization of the different age demographics since this new strain?
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Deaths, no- that seems to still be older people- so far.

But yes, plenty of graphs as well as anecdotal evidence showing far more people of my age (less so for yours) ending up in hospital and critical care with it.
 
Apollyon said:
No, I think the ideology is only affordable to those that are already coined. People like df, who has never struggled in real life. Sure, he struggles on the owd world wide web, but he's another **** that doesn't know what its like to have fuck all
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Your opinions are ridiculous.
I'm just about keeping my head above water after being forced into claiming benefits on the sick. I've had to borrow to just pay rent, and use food banks on the regular, despite having worked all my life.
Not all leftists are middle class, in fact most of the lefties i know are poor and struggling.
I guess you only know what you know, ay?
 
i am a tree said:
Your opinions are ridiculous.
I'm just about keeping my head above water after being forced into claiming benefits on the sick. I've had to borrow to just pay rent, and use food banks on the regular, despite having worked all my life.
Not all leftists are middle class, in fact most of the lefties i know are poor and struggling.
I guess you only know what you know, ay?
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i think if youve struggled and have a reasonable I.Q then youre a socialist by default. Thats probably 80% of lefties. Ive nothing against the privileged instantly, wealth doesn't automatically nullify your views
 
JC21 said:
I don't understand your argument with the 'champagne socialists'. Do you think that everyone with a bit of money shouldn't give a fuck about the less privileged then?

I seem to recall you saying a few times about supporting charities. Isn't that kind of 'left wing' of you and you can 'afford' to do it?
Click to expand...
Or is it a tax fiddle?
 
i am a tree said:
Your opinions are ridiculous.
I'm just about keeping my head above water after being forced into claiming benefits on the sick. I've had to borrow to just pay rent, and use food banks on the regular, despite having worked all my life.
Not all leftists are middle class, in fact most of the lefties i know are poor and struggling.
I guess you only know what you know, ay?
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Sorry to hear this.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I'm trying to tell people what to talk about here.

But this is the COVID thread and we've just gone into a third, totally shit lockdown with schools closed and a "stay at home unless you love your children enough to take them to Barnard Castle" message.

How the fuck is the main topic of discussion Labour and Jeremy fucking Corbyn?
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I blame CP. He just can't help himself.
 
Apollyon said:
No, I think the ideology is only affordable to those that are already coined. People like df, who has never struggled in real life. Sure, he struggles on the owd world wide web, but he's another **** that doesn't know what its like to have fuck all
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The fact that CP and pope like this post shows how utterly deluded and biased they are.
You can't be left wing if you're poor.
Of fucking course they would think that lol.
 
Just to be clear:

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/low-income-voters-uk-general-elections-1987-2017
  1. Low-income voters are ‘up for grabs’ like never before. In 2017 Labour enjoyed their highest support among low-income voters since the heyday of Tony Blair, and the Conservatives enjoyed their strongest support among low-income voters since the era of Margaret Thatcher.
  2. Low-income voters have become more volatile over time. Today, they are less tribally loyal to one party. This means that they are more open to being persuaded to change sides; this further underlines why the parties should engage with them.
  3. Low-income voters are engaging in politics to a greater degree. Between 2015 and 2017, their rate of turnout increased by seven percentage points. This is the first noteworthy increase for 30 years. After a long period in which their political voice had diminished, low-income voters have become more involved in politics and want to talk to the parties.
  4. Low-income voters are feeling squeezed by changes in the economy. Today, they are just as likely to say that their households are struggling financially as they were during the 1992 and post-2008 crises. Furthermore, they are not sure who to blame for the current situation, which underlines how both Labour and the Conservatives could benefit by making a clearer case about how they will improve the economic situation of low-income voters.
  5. Britain’s main parties need to focus on this key group and refresh their offer. For Labour, this is necessary to retain their historic lead over the Conservatives, which in recent years has been declining. For the Conservatives, reviving their offer to low-income voters could help them build and expand upon their recent gains. To do this, Britain’s main parties will have to appeal to low-income voters’ desire for greater economic redistribution, as well as be sensitive to their values preferences. These voters are ‘cross-pressured’; they lean to the left on economic issues but often lean to the right on issues like law-and-order, migration and Brexit.
  6. Amid a volatile and divisive Brexit debate concerns to do with economic fairness between rich and poor are once again at the fore of voters’ decision-making. Older ‘left-right’ divides have re-emerged and are once again important. In terms of winning over low-income voters there are very good reasons for the main parties to redouble their efforts to offer more redistributive policies, especially amid Britain’s ongoing Brexit debate.
  7. All of these findings and the implications for the main parties were reflected at the outcome of the 2017 general election. Labour was more successful in low-income Britain because they tapped into the left-wing economic views of low-income voters. They can build on this success, but they need to be mindful about low-income voters’ attitudes towards crime and law and order, as well as Europe, and think about how they can bolster living standards. The Tories have considerable potential among this group because they are closer to low-income voters on issues like Europe and crime. If the Conservatives switch toward an economic message that has more resonance among low-income voters they could unlock even more support.
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But I guess fuck all that, because facts, reports and statistics mean absolutely nothing, better just to go off the intuition that the poor can't be leftist, because cognitive bias rules the roost these days.

(or maybe, just maybe, if you only hang around with well off, moneyed people, you will only know well off, moneyed leftists)
 
i am a tree said:
The fact that CP and pope like this post shows how utterly deluded and biased they are.
You can't be left wing if you're poor.
Of fucking course they would think that lol.
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I think the difference is that poor no longer means working class, it means under class. Poor no longer means a handful of industries dominated by trade unions. Poor no longer means socialist.

It's been a long time since the term working class was anything remotely resembling a homogeneous group.

Your link is telling - Blair enjoyed a far greater support than Corbyn from low income voters, and for that matter Thatcher resonated with them too. So middle of the road and far right politics can work.

The big issue is narrative. Blair had one, Thatcher had one, and for a brief moment it looked like Corbyn did but he threw it away with a muddled campaign, no charisma and like it or not a very middle class Guardianista agenda.

Poor means you can be right, left or central if you're offered hope and a believable path forward. Corbyn didn't have a working class socialist vision, he had a middle class socialist vision.
 
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