Other Clubs News Discussion Thread 2 | Page 988 | Vital Football

Other Clubs News Discussion Thread 2

garygaryshaw said:
Not forgotten to admit anything. Off the top of my head I thought he would be, pretty sure he must be in the top 3. Maybe Pique might beat him (but then he has 1 less Euros and 1 less Champions league medal) - but genuinely cant think of anyone else.
I think he's top class personally and don't think he would have been at the very top as long as he has, if he had the flaws you are suggesting - but it's your opinion, so fair enough.
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Agreed and he also has over 100 career goals. Very, very good player. Not above the Baresi's, Maldini's, Scriea's, Beckenbauer's etc but certainly has a place on the all time great list somewhere.
 
garygaryshaw said:
Yet we are stuck with a manager who seems intent on playing 343 with 2 defensive midfielders.
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Does Southgate seem like he has a creative mind? No, the man lives in a box.

Y'all have literally every piece you could want to play multiple different ways and yet he is intent on putting the pieces together to play like everyone else. You are blessed with talent and blessed with high-quality players in the same position who play differently. He could build a team that plays like no other but he doesnt want to do that. He wants to emulate and I get it because he doesnt have the ability or confidence to attempt to be formidable.

TAA, Foden, Henderson, Sterling, Grealish and Kane all have to play IMO.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
Does Southgate seem like he has a creative mind? No, the man lives in a box.

Y'all have literally every piece you could want to play multiple different ways and yet he is intent on putting the pieces together to play like everyone else. You are blessed with talent and blessed with high-quality players in the same position who play differently. He could build a team that plays like no other but he doesnt want to do that. He wants to emulate and I get it because he doesnt have the ability or confidence to attempt to be formidable.

TAA, Foden, Henderson, Sterling, Grealish and Kane all have to play IMO.
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England actually have midfielders who are comfortable on the ball, for the first time in a long time. Mount, Foden and jack are all creative for their clubs but they can’t all be given that licence to go forward for England as we need shape. I would sacrifice both Foden and Mount a little to let Sterling join up with Kane with Jack given a licence to play wherever the ball is and we need him. The footballing talent of Jack, Mount and Foden is unrivalled in my lifetime in terms of raw talent.

I don’t see why we don’t just go 4 at the back as this is what most sides are used to, given we have two really good attacking full backs. We’re trying to play a formation that only Leeds and Wolves do, I don’t get it or understand where it’s come from.


TAA..........CB.........CB......Chilwell
.....................Henderson
.............Mount................Foden
Grealish....................................Sterling
.........................Kane
 
danvilla2 said:
England actually have midfielders who are comfortable on the ball, for the first time in a long time. Mount, Foden and jack are all creative for their clubs but they can’t all be given that licence to go forward for England as we need shape. I would sacrifice both Foden and Mount a little to let Sterling join up with Kane with Jack given a licence to play wherever the ball is and we need him. The footballing talent of Jack, Mount and Foden is unrivalled in my lifetime in terms of raw talent.

I don’t see why we don’t just go 4 at the back as this is what most sides are used to, given we have two really good attacking full backs. We’re trying to play a formation that only Leeds and Wolves do, I don’t get it or understand where it’s come from.


TAA..........CB.........CB......Chilwell
.....................Henderson
.............Mount................Foden
Grealish....................................Sterling
.........................Kane
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I've been saying the same as this and many others have too. However Southgate seems intent in sticking with 5 at the back (its certainly not 3) with 2 defensive mids in front of them. It probably shows what little confidence he has in our defenders and inability to keep clean sheets against decent teams.
There is an argument for playing this way, as both Portugal and Greece have won the Euros with a boring, pragmatic approach. However I dont think either of them had the same amount of attacking talent available to them (even with Ronaldo). It just feels like such as waste not be building an exciting, attacking team that could have a go at anyone.
 
danvilla2 said:
England actually have midfielders who are comfortable on the ball, for the first time in a long time.

I don’t see why we don’t just go 4 at the back as this is what most sides are used to, given we have two really good attacking full backs. We’re trying to play a formation that only Leeds and Wolves do, I don’t get it or understand where it’s come from.
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You have unbelievable talent and age-wise the type of team that could go to the 2022 WC Final, 2024 Euros and 2024 WC again. And you've a manager who doesnt have a notion.

343 and variations of it are highly prevalent now, you've got Conte to thank for that with that blistering team he won the league with. We've used it, Leicester have used a 343 at times as have Arsenal and Sheffiled Utd. Brighton are big proponents now too.

Its the knock-on effect of various trends over the years. 433s tend to end up looking 343s too. That trend you've got Pep to thank.

- Philips - was a CB converted to a DM
- Rice - another CB converted to a DM
- Ben White - a CB so comfortable on the ball its hard to tell whether he is an old school sweeper / libero or another who is turning into a DM
- Arsenal brought in Gabriel to do that role too because David Luiz is obviously a calamity
- Rodri drops into that position too
- You'll probably see Thiago do it at Liverpool but in a much different way as Klopp doesnt follow the masses
- Luiz does it for us too he drops in beside our CBs but the difference with him is he is also naturally drifting out into wider positions hence all the crossing positions he ends up in
- Wolves and Sheffield are the only teams that use it defensively like a sweeper system and Leicester seem to use it because their left side a little weaker now. James and Fuchs arent great left backs.

I can't understand why England use it though because it is so defensive. Why would you need Coady, Maguire, Mings and Rice on one pitch? I get at centre the team is probably the weakest but I am not sure how you get out with just Henderson and Rice in front of a back three. Seems incredibly limiting.

Henderson for me is like McGinn in our side, he is a box to box mid and is rock solid all round. Plus nobody gets a day off he keeps player honest. It should be a 433 IMO with Rice or Philips in DM to protect whoever is picked at CB. TAA and Chilwell at FB, Henderson and Foden/Mount as the more advanced CM and then Sterling, Kane and Grealish as a front 3. The front 3 are all players who have put their clubs on their backs at various points. Sancho has never had to do that.

Thats a conventional system that makes sense IMO

-----------GK-----------
TAA-----CB--CB----Chil
-------Rice/Philips------
Hendo---Mount/Foden
Sterling--------Grealish
---------Kane-----------
 
I've just noticed if England do win their group at the Euros, we will be up against the runner up from the so called "group of death" in Dublin.
So good chance we get Germany, France or Portugal in the last 16 and another early exit.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
343 and variations of it are highly prevalent now, you've got Conte to thank for that with that blistering team he won the league with. We've used it, Leicester have used a 343 at times as have Arsenal and Sheffiled Utd. Brighton are big proponents now too.

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Those clubs you mention have had some relative success recently for their levels, but haven’t won anything of note from a 3-4-3. If City and Liverpool were winning titles or champions league’s with it, then there would be a case for it but I don’t see it.

Such a shame, the manager is so inferior equally I don’t think the England job is anywhere near as prestigious as it was and the list of candidates is probably not a lot better than the current muppet.

Howe has done a good job but for the mighty Bournemouth. He seems like the preferred option of the many - but hardly a man who really warrants the national job. He’d fit the FA profile though that’s for sure though.
 
Personally Southgate would be better suited using the formation the players are used to week in week out, play a 4,2,3,1 with Jack in the middle behind Kane so there's no chance of him being isolated on the wing, That way you can fit the likes of Rashford, Sterling on the outside.
 
Villa 4 Ever said:
Personally Southgate would be better suited using the formation the players are used to week in week out, play a 4,2,3,1 with Jack in the middle behind Kane so there's no chance of him being isolated on the wing, That way you can fit the likes of Rashford, Sterling on the outside.
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Absolutely - but if you have players like JG & PF and to be fair MM, who are very comfortable receiving the ball then you have to have players who can make that pass, and that isn't W*nks & R*ce
 
This is the eternal problem with international managers - they pick players based somewhat on club form then think they know better and stick round pegs in square holes with shackles on
 
The wealth of midfielders for England is amazing. Those listed in the posts above should prove more than an adequate choice of options for any manager. Also there is Maddison coming back to fitness. Add him to the mix.
 
So tonight's game at the Sty is one of those where you want neither team to win and even a draw would be too good. I hope that the teams kick lumps out of each other and have 4 sent off each side and the referee abandons the game to protect the safety of the officials.

The Scum playing away at the Sty, you couldn't make it up :rofl:
 
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