What should replace the Colston statue in Bristol? | Page 8 | Vital Football

What should replace the Colston statue in Bristol?

Some of us with a bit more grey matter than you have said put statues and other artefacts in museums and heritage centres and educate people properly. Do nothing and the discrimination continues. Yes, it might be over reaction but it's like positive discrimination - without it nothing gets done. If necessary, pull all statues down. Those people are dead but many live today in a world of discrimination and a significant number of BAME people died not because of any physiological difference but because they fell into the impoverished category.

I’m highlighting the absurdity of it all knobhead.
Does anyone seriously think that by removing statues, anything will actually change?

Change will be bought about by engagement.
More black councillors
More black MPs
More black business people
More black police
Change comes from the inside for minorities.
 
I think people are putting a lot of faith in education here. I've spent the last forty years in an education system which has boasted that it's all about critical thinking but has become more and more about right thinking pitched at classes in which a few gobble it up like meat and drink, another few become increasingly resentful, and the majority say tell me what I have to do to wade through this bullshit so I can get my piece of paper and get on with my life. I don't think education's made things worse -would that students listened to us that much- but I don't think it's helped.

Unreservedly, I 100% bow to your understanding of education systems, Jokerman. But with respect, if we can`t put increased faith in educating society to change for the better, where can we put it ? Of the many suggestions doing the rounds, like dismantling police departments etc, putting faith in education to deliver a more fundamental take on equality - right through the schooling process does, at least, to a lay person like me, sound viable and doable.

I don`t like the sound of the "do as we say, and no-one gets hurt" solution - wherever it`s coming from, but without viable long-term alternatives that direction of travel could yet find itself on more and more signposts.

OK, so the quest to get all students to buy into all messaging has uphill sections, but when you stack that challenge against expectation, or hope, that people from older generations (ie typically post-school ages) will naturally change their thinking following exposure to positive discrimination, I wonder where investment in people is better placed ? Young, generally receptively pliable thinkers or generally set-in-their-ways older folk who resent change.

As you`ve implied before, answers to the current issue of equality are not going to be easy to come by. No overnight solution to this mess, but learning from gifted professional tutors sounds more of a meaningful and lasting solution than towing a line born of mandate and "street persuasion".
 
Let’s not go too far with this, otherwise we’ll be tearing down statues of Sir David Attenborough etc.
 
I’m highlighting the absurdity of it all knobhead.
Does anyone seriously think that by removing statues, anything will actually change?

Change will be bought about by engagement.
More black councillors
More black MPs
More black business people
More black police
Change comes from the inside for minorities.
I don't think people are asking for more black anything but proper education will make a big difference - another white exceptionalist
 
"he did good as well as bad."

I'm not aware of what bad he did? (Genuinely)

A bit of a lazy comment from me Nobby, which you spotted. I don't have much knowledge of Robert Peel's history beyond the basics. I should have said he did much more good than bad, which should have been fairer and puts him above most politicians. He appears to have moved pragmatically from some reactionary positions to more progressive ones.

I think on a very brief reading that criticism of Peel is based on his father's money having come from slavery (cotton/slaves). His father expressed cautions against abolition due to commercial self interest. That's far too thin in my opinion and I don't expect him to lose his place on Woodhouse Moor.
 
A bit of a lazy comment from me Nobby, which you spotted. I don't have much knowledge of Robert Peel's history beyond the basics. I should have said he did much more good than bad, which should have been fairer and puts him above most politicians. He appears to have moved pragmatically from some reactionary positions to more progressive ones.

I think on a very brief reading that criticism of Peel is based on his father's money having come from slavery (cotton/slaves). His father expressed cautions against abolition due to commercial self interest. That's far too thin in my opinion and I don't expect him to lose his place on Woodhouse Moor.
No worries, it was an honest query as I only knew his political past (which I'd only read up on for obvious reasons) and even after looking him up again this afternoon, I found nothing dodgy in his past. OK so one could criticise for gaining financially from his old man but to be too heavy with someone because if his dad is a tad harsh although I suppose the "sins of the father" would sort of apply should his history be blemished in this way 🤔
Anyway, no offence meant, it was just a case of wondering if you knew something I don't.
As an aside, the very first constable recruited by Peel's mob (he actually wad the warrant number "1") was dismissed on his first day for being drunk on duty, (or so legend has it) now there's a man who deserves a statue 😁
 
It's been pulled out of the harbour and will be put in a museum. Best place for it, I
reckon.

It is important to recognise the history and not just airbrush out any unsavoury aspects. People need to be educated about why the Colston was memorialised in the first place (the fact that he definitely was a great philanthropist whose money helped build the city; Bristolians of the time would have wanted to honour him). And the reasons why, 126 years later, modern day Bristolians were affronted by the presence of his statue and resorted to taking direct action to remove it.

Loads of important history there. Definitely pleased it's going in a museum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53004748
 
Rather than tear down statues I agree with an information board that explains what they did, good and bad and why its not acceptable today.

Perhaps rather than solely focus on slavery that occurred hundreds of years ago a fitting thing would be tackle and destroy modern slavery in the UK today.
 
Does it have to be an either or. Can't we do both?

Absolutely but the focus is on rewriting history. I'd rather write the present.

"Uproar" in medway at the name of the John Hawkins car park due to his links to slavery. Its a car park. I'd be more concerned at ridding medway of any modern slavery. Easier to focus on a car park name though. Even medway council should be able to change that without overspending.

Let's hope dickens doesn't have any skeletons !
 
Absolutely but the focus is on rewriting history. I'd rather write the present.

"Uproar" in medway at the name of the John Hawkins car park due to his links to slavery. Its a car park. I'd be more concerned at ridding medway of any modern slavery. Easier to focus on a car park name though. Even medway council should be able to change that without overspending.

Let's hope dickens doesn't have any skeletons !

I agree with you, Mark.

But I must try once again to make it plain and clear that I am in no way suggesting or advocating the rewriting of history. That's the last thing I want.

It is so very important that people know, especially those who wanted the Colston statue taken down, exactly why it was put up in the first place. It is true that slavery had been abolished by 1894 but it is also true that attitudes and values were very different in those days. It wouldn't have mattered too much to too many people that he had made his money from being a slaver. What was important was that he had used that money to help the poor in Bristol. In 1894 it was quite right that he was memorialised.

And by the same token (the values of the time) it is right that he was pulled down in 2020. Actually it should have happened sooner. But never mind.

All this guff about pulling down buildings and other useful things is just that, guff. A good example is the Cecil Rhodes fund at Cambridge where some African kids receive scholarships. Some say this should be scrapped because of the ignominy for a black kid to be being funded by a racist's money. But they're mad to suggest this. Why should the African kids miss out on the scholarship because of some (probably middle class university educated) liberal bleating on about bullshit?

Shirley the simple solution is to just rename the fund. Or the car park. Or whatever. FFS, useful things shouldn't just be gotten rid of. Even the statues have historical and educational value. Which is why they should be in museums and not on our streets.
 
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I’ll be a little bit controversial here but say that this statue issue is just topic of the month and in a few weeks, the vast majority will have moved on to the next topic of the month.

Those who have always had issues with it like Afua Hirsh will continue to be a voice in the wilderness.

Many of the outraged will soon be outraged by something else .
 
I’ll be a little bit controversial here but say that this statue issue is just topic of the month and in a few weeks, the vast majority will have moved on to the next topic of the month.

Those who have always had issues with it like Afua Hirsh will continue to be a voice in the wilderness.

Many of the outraged will soon be outraged by something else .

We certainly don't want to waste too much time on it. There is merit in the debate, discussion and hopefully there will be further removal of the more distasteful statues. But as others have said, there are very pressing social issues of today that need to be dealt with right now. Racism is one, poverty is another.
 
I believe that 11,000 people had signed a petition calling for the statue to be removed which would have led to a debate on the topic at a Bristol City Council full council meeting.

However, petitions are hosted on websites which means anybody from anywhere can put their name to them.

Therefore only a tiny percentage of resident adults living in bristol had actually signed a petition calling for its removal. The population is around 450k.

There is no guarantee that any such debate would have led to its removal.

Instead a tiny minority of people, not necessarily all from Bristol, have decided to circumvent democracy and take direct action and remove it themselves.

The least that can happen now is a proper democratic decision be made on its replacement.
 
I don't think people are asking for more black anything but proper education will make a big difference - another white exceptionalist
Please.
What is a 'white exceptionalist' ?
Is this another new term circulating in the SJW bubble ?
I'd like a definition to know how offensive it is.:rolleyes:

Thank you