Davidimp
Vital Football Legend
Very true on all points.
Imps retained list announced
- Thread starter SalfordImp
- Start date
Davidimp
Vital Football Legend
We have been spoilt before the current season with some fantastic away performances, the step up in class has found us wanting.
Only saw 2 away games, decent enough at Burton but Sunderland turned into a catalogue of errors after a promising start.
NottyImp
Vital Football Legend
Sunderland was a Certificate XXX horror-show.
cherryexile
Vital 1st Team Regular
Just to play devil's advocate a little; are we really sure that much will change in football over the next few years?
If we put aside Covid-19, lockdown, social distancing etc. in its current iteration (I know that is a fairly big ask), once we have a new normal, why would income/expenditure for most clubs be very much different from 5 months ago? Granted, many will have taken a big hit to cash flow and maybe for some an insurmountable one, but for those who ride the storm, why would they be any further than one big player sale or a decent cup run away from being on the up again.
Can anyone really see a future 12 months down the line where stadium capacity is halved because we have to sit 1 metre apart. I certainly can't. I can only see football, in the not too distant future, returning to pretty much what it was before.
If that is the case, then why will player's wages fall in the medium term? In my opinion, they won't. At least they won't unless clubs chose to set a reasonable budget and stick to it. This has always been within their power to do (Accrington and Arsenal do it), but the people involved in running clubs get carried away with the 'potential' and the 'glory' and reach with their wallets (and overdrafts) for the next star.
What has fundamentally changed about the economics of the world and of football? Not much as far as I can see. There is a cash-flow contraction and a build up of debt (otherwise known as a recession), as there has been numerous times in the past, but none of the previous contractions changed the way football clubs behaved, so why should this one?
Unfortunately, being a well run, solvent club hasn't proved to equate to prolonged success on the pitch, so it hasn't spread as a model to follow for those whose primary reason to be involved in football at all, is to be associated with success.
I think player wages are likely to continue to be strongly linked with club income and the repercussions of Covid-19 are not necessarily destined to change that.
If we put aside Covid-19, lockdown, social distancing etc. in its current iteration (I know that is a fairly big ask), once we have a new normal, why would income/expenditure for most clubs be very much different from 5 months ago? Granted, many will have taken a big hit to cash flow and maybe for some an insurmountable one, but for those who ride the storm, why would they be any further than one big player sale or a decent cup run away from being on the up again.
Can anyone really see a future 12 months down the line where stadium capacity is halved because we have to sit 1 metre apart. I certainly can't. I can only see football, in the not too distant future, returning to pretty much what it was before.
If that is the case, then why will player's wages fall in the medium term? In my opinion, they won't. At least they won't unless clubs chose to set a reasonable budget and stick to it. This has always been within their power to do (Accrington and Arsenal do it), but the people involved in running clubs get carried away with the 'potential' and the 'glory' and reach with their wallets (and overdrafts) for the next star.
What has fundamentally changed about the economics of the world and of football? Not much as far as I can see. There is a cash-flow contraction and a build up of debt (otherwise known as a recession), as there has been numerous times in the past, but none of the previous contractions changed the way football clubs behaved, so why should this one?
Unfortunately, being a well run, solvent club hasn't proved to equate to prolonged success on the pitch, so it hasn't spread as a model to follow for those whose primary reason to be involved in football at all, is to be associated with success.
I think player wages are likely to continue to be strongly linked with club income and the repercussions of Covid-19 are not necessarily destined to change that.
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NottyImp
Vital Football Legend
Unless you vote for change and agitate for change in small - and, occasionally, big ways - nothing will change.
My advice: study the history of change. Start with votes for women.
SAToffeeImp
Vital Youth Team
Even if coronavirus disappeared one day this year just like a miracle I would give the scenario you have painted less than one percent chance of materialising.
Below is a message I posted on Banter in response to a similar comment about player salaries remaining unchanged.
The reality is we are economically in a global depression or at the very least a deep recession. Many fans will have lost jobs or have reduced income. Even if crowds are allowed to attend at some point attendances will be lower especially with regard to away fans who provide the highest yield. Many businesses have been adversely impacted which will affect sponsorship or the ability of owners and investors to fund their clubs. Central distributions from the EFL and PL to clubs will be lower.
In addition it is very likely salary caps and squad limits will be introduced across all three leagues in the EFL. There are more than 1100 players out of contract just in the EFL. Even PL teams will be cutting back on squad sizes and academies because of reduced income so the over supply of players is going to be huge.
Against that background player salaries can only drop significantly, the only question is by how much.
All of those stairs as well, to see a defensive abomination.
The Imposter
Vital 1st Team Regular
The only person I know who can simultaneously talk while inhaling through his nose.
cherryexile
Vital 1st Team Regular
Clive,
You are obviously in a much better position than I am to assess the current feelings of EFL clubs, owners and administrators and thus the likelihood of a salary cap and squad limits, which, if implemented, will artificially constrain wages.
In the short term, it would be difficult to disagree with your assessment, but we have been here before and (in my defence) I was referring to the medium term.
In 2002 the collapse of the ITV Digital deal lead to a collapse of the transfer market at lower league level. However, as clubs adjusted to the 'new normal' (many with considerable difficulty), the same psychology returned and here we are now complaining about the same fundamental flaws in football finances - unsustainable expenditure on players and players' wages.
I will happily concede that there is clearly an unknown variable about when things will return to some semblance of normality, and perhaps within 12 months is optimistic, but I would give it greater than a 1% chance that it will.
Maybe I just have less faith in your counter-parts than I do in you.
You are obviously in a much better position than I am to assess the current feelings of EFL clubs, owners and administrators and thus the likelihood of a salary cap and squad limits, which, if implemented, will artificially constrain wages.
In the short term, it would be difficult to disagree with your assessment, but we have been here before and (in my defence) I was referring to the medium term.
In 2002 the collapse of the ITV Digital deal lead to a collapse of the transfer market at lower league level. However, as clubs adjusted to the 'new normal' (many with considerable difficulty), the same psychology returned and here we are now complaining about the same fundamental flaws in football finances - unsustainable expenditure on players and players' wages.
I will happily concede that there is clearly an unknown variable about when things will return to some semblance of normality, and perhaps within 12 months is optimistic, but I would give it greater than a 1% chance that it will.
Maybe I just have less faith in your counter-parts than I do in you.
nlondonimp
Vital Champions League
the issue now isn't just the collapse of one company [itv digital] it is the collapse of multiple companies countrywide and worldwide, and even if they don't collapse the survivors will be cutting back in a big way. this will affect jobs. and so it will affect spectators at football matches. lcfc rely heavily on exceptional support for income [33% of income i think has been mentioned]. lots of that will be wiped out. and as we know it takes an exceptional spell of success to build spectator numbers back up.
we were on a real roll in terms of spectator interest. probably the best in the lower 2 leagues. so in terms of keeping those spectators 'addicted', having a spell of no games, then a possible lengthy spell of games with no spectators allowed in the ground, and then the effects of job losses, is terrible timing for lcfc.
The Country is seemingly heading towards recession and football will unavoidably go with the flow. Companies are tightening their belts, jobs are already being lost and for some furloughing, though helpful in the short term, is delaying the inevitable. Demand for retail and office space has nose dived and it will be interesting to see how residential values hold up over the next 6-18 months.
Our Board was already running a tight ship when Danny and Nicky were “allowed” to move on. The position was reinforced last week with the early publication of the retained list. As a result it appears Lincoln City is probably in better shape than many EFL clubs to weather the storm.
It is going to be a very difficult year but with continued core support, MApp at the helm and a bit of luck, we can continue our forward progression.
Up the Imps.
Our Board was already running a tight ship when Danny and Nicky were “allowed” to move on. The position was reinforced last week with the early publication of the retained list. As a result it appears Lincoln City is probably in better shape than many EFL clubs to weather the storm.
It is going to be a very difficult year but with continued core support, MApp at the helm and a bit of luck, we can continue our forward progression.
Up the Imps.
I'm assuming you've missed all the talk in the news about salary caps and squad limits?
There's a big, big difference between one company collapsing, which wouldn't have had an impact on your average football supporter and the world economy on its arse!
The PL will probably remain relatively unchanged in the main because of TV money (two more years to run?), but the Championship will blow up soon IMO because the debt building there is unsustainable and in L1 and L2, if salary caps and limits go through, they'll be a surplus of out of contract players if teams are carrying squads of 20-22 rather than 25 or so and that's where the drive down in wages will be. The NL should, but probably won't, follow suit.
It's another discussion, and one we've had on here in the last couple of weeks, but I'm not sure how it's going to work when you've got NL teams coming up and Championship teams coming down into salary capped and/or squad limited leagues. You then end up with different leagues having different financial rules (which apply to a point now anyway to be fair i.e. SCMP) but this is going to be, or appears to be, a much less flexible way of doing it.
Taking the dystopian view, I think the Premiership will be just fine, pretty much business as usual, but they'll be able to play the disaster capitalist role. 1. They can probably break away completely ending relegation, especially if there's a salary cap in the EFL 2. They will probably act as 'saviour' for many EFL clubs by loaning their young players and effectively turning them into nursery clubs, and 3. They will be in a strong position to put their B teams in the EFL.
SAToffeeImp
Vital Youth Team
Luke, the intention is to have the same rules throughout the three leagues of the EFL although obviously with different salary cap levels in each league. There would be a transition period for relegated teams where the salaries of players on existing contracts higher than the divisional average would be included in the calculation for that season at the divisional average.
Maybe its hard to believe the Championship clubs will agree to that but the reality of the situation might just force the clubs to vote for it. Although the virus has come at a terrible cost it might just be the catalyst for football to finally address the broken model.
Davidimp
Vital Football Legend
Some of the criticism of the retained list (not here I hasten to add, very sensible debate here ) seem have to have missed the fact that Ipswich did their list before us (clearly expecting the season to finish too) and even though they're in a playoff spot in league two Colchester basically sacked a few players a few weeks ago due to their money problems.
Some people need to look at the bigger picture they really do.
Some people need to look at the bigger picture they really do.
German Imp
Vital Football Hero
Can’t see why some are critical of the retained list, I see it as an opportunity and a good one at that.
True, I just think if we're not careful we'll end up with a situation in L1 where the relegated Championship sides will have a similar gap between them as the Championship and relegated PL sides do and end up with the same clubs outside of the two or three big ones you usually get at this level each season, yo-yo'ing (like Rotherham appear to be).
RedImp73
Vital Reserves Team
Clive,
Given the model is quite clearly broken and given the scenario where there may be a lot of Championship clubs resistant (at least initially) to the salary cap reforms being proposed, do you think we will see a raft of clubs pushing the "other way" so to speak and moves made to resurrect the idea of a Premier League 2, which would in essence replace the Championship as we know it?
