Jose is an ex-Spurs manager!

[Harry-Kari]

It’s interesting that we all seem to agree that we are in big trouble, different views as to why that is, but in terms of solutions there appear to be only two main options.

One is a complete rebuild of the squad and the other is to change the manager, again.

A complete rebuild based upon proven quality as opposed to prospects would make Levy’s spreadsheets explode so that isn’t going to happen, and a gradual rebuild with prospects and the current management team must look very risky.

Consequently, the most probable outcome is a change of manager....it is the cheapest option and would probably be supported by much of the fan base if we believe what we read in the media. However, this is also a high risk strategy in that any successful manager looking at us right now wouldn’t want to take on what is a poisoned chalice at the moment. People say that many managers would jump at the chance given the profile of the club, but right now that profile says limited funds, few class players who may want to move on anyway and sky high expectations from the chairman who needs revenue to fund his theme park.

Its going to be interesting times in the Chinese usage of the words.

 

[Spursex]

It’s interesting that we all seem to agree that we are in big trouble, different views as to why that is, but in terms of solutions there appear to be only two main options.

One is a complete rebuild of the squad and the other is to change the manager, again.

A complete rebuild based upon proven quality as opposed to prospects would make Levy’s spreadsheets explode so that isn’t going to happen, and a gradual rebuild with prospects and the current management team must look very risky.

Consequently, the most probable outcome is a change of manager....it is the cheapest option and would probably be supported by much of the fan base if we believe what we read in the media. However, this is also a high risk strategy in that any successful manager looking at us right now wouldn’t want to take on what is a poisoned chalice at the moment. People say that many managers would jump at the chance given the profile of the club, but right now that profile says limited funds, few class players who may want to move on anyway and sky high expectations from the chairman who needs revenue to fund his theme park.

Its going to be interesting times in the Chinese usage of the words.

Picking a manager who is used to buying pretty much whoever he likes - until even for clubs like Manure, his demands become insatiable may not be one of those decisions that in hindsight wasn't the smartest. But the board, like us bought into his 'winner tag' - a piece of silverware in this market was deemed achievable and of course a necessity.

If Jose is still the manager to land the mythical silverware, he'll need to keep the support of the board and re-win the confidence of the players; that comes down to leadership, coaching, tactical nouse and both private and public positive messaging - is he capable still of any/all of these? - so far from what we've seen it's debatable.

But we've made our bet, we should stick with him and hope he can prove that his not a dinosaur living off his past glories.

 

[Matic]

I don't think Jose has lost the players, and I dont think Poch ever lost the dressing room either (except for Eriksen, Toby and Wanyama.)

What is happening at the club is bigger. We became a victim of our own successes. Fans and pundits all started to demand silverware, because it was the only thing missing from how great we were. We had gone from a team who kept hovering around the 'best of the rest' part of the league to all of a sudden being title contenders and widely considered to be the best team in the league (over the course of the 15/16 and 16/17 seasons we won more points than any other team, so that was justified.)

The only problem was, we had a team of young players who didn't know how to get over the line for a trophy win, a manager that had never guided a team to a win, a chairman who never looked like he expected us to be progressing as quickly as we were and off-the-field hurdles like stadium moves and players wanting to leave but being denied. Now we have hired a manager who has one of the best CV's in modern football and people were instantly convinced that "this would get us over the line."

It's almost the expectations that have killed us. With the way it ended with Poch and the way it is going now with Jose, we are a mess. We have no identity, we have no leadership and we have a team of players who have struggled for confidence for a year.

There is no simple solution now. There is nothing wrong with the vast majority of our squad. It is a very decent squad that is easily capable of getting into the top 4 if they were confident and firing. Sacking Mourinho may seem like the only solution but even that is a dangerous move.

Whatever the least painful solution is, to act NOW would be a mistake. Get to the end of the season and Levy should take a long, hard look at the club. I have my ideas about what should be done but at the end of the day, those don't matter.

 

[Harry-Kari]

I don't think Jose has lost the players, and I dont think Poch ever lost the dressing room either (except for Eriksen, Toby and Wanyama.)

What is happening at the club is bigger. We became a victim of our own successes. Fans and pundits all started to demand silverware, because it was the only thing missing from how great we were. We had gone from a team who kept hovering around the 'best of the rest' part of the league to all of a sudden being title contenders and widely considered to be the best team in the league (over the course of the 15/16 and 16/17 seasons we won more points than any other team, so that was justified.)

The only problem was, we had a team of young players who didn't know how to get over the line for a trophy win, a manager that had never guided a team to a win, a chairman who never looked like he expected us to be progressing as quickly as we were and off-the-field hurdles like stadium moves and players wanting to leave but being denied. Now we have hired a manager who has one of the best CV's in modern football and people were instantly convinced that "this would get us over the line."

It's almost the expectations that have killed us. With the way it ended with Poch and the way it is going now with Jose, we are a mess. We have no identity, we have no leadership and we have a team of players who have struggled for confidence for a year.

There is no simple solution now. There is nothing wrong with the vast majority of our squad. It is a very decent squad that is easily capable of getting into the top 4 if they were confident and firing. Sacking Mourinho may seem like the only solution but even that is a dangerous move.

Whatever the least painful solution is, to act NOW would be a mistake. Get to the end of the season and Levy should take a long, hard look at the club. I have my ideas about what should be done but at the end of the day, those don't matter.

I don’t disagree except in the view of the squad....I look at and I don’t see much quality. Now whether that is because the quality is there but confidence is low so it’s not showing but I always think when disaster strikes it’s easy to see the winners from the losers, those who try to express their quality and carry the rest. In the current squad I only see LoCo in that mould....yes some others are trying like Winks but they clearly don’t have what it takes to make a difference.

Perhaps I’m being harsh, but I’m not seeing players with enough character to ever be winners.

 

[Spursex]

I don’t disagree except in the view of the squad....I look at and I don’t see much quality. Now whether that is because the quality is there but confidence is low so it’s not showing but I always think when disaster strikes it’s easy to see the winners from the losers, those who try to express their quality and carry the rest. In the current squad I only see LoCo in that mould....yes some others are trying like Winks but they clearly don’t have what it takes to make a difference.

Perhaps I’m being harsh, but I’m not seeing players with enough character to ever be winners.

At times like this, you need players and coaches, the manager to be a single unified unit, that unit needs to have total faith in their fellow players, the tactics, the set-up and most importantly in their leader(s).

Without anyone of those components, you have a potentially catastrophic failure.

 

[Matic]

I don’t disagree except in the view of the squad....I look at and I don’t see much quality. Now whether that is because the quality is there but confidence is low so it’s not showing but I always think when disaster strikes it’s easy to see the winners from the losers, those who try to express their quality and carry the rest. In the current squad I only see LoCo in that mould....yes some others are trying like Winks but they clearly don’t have what it takes to make a difference.

Perhaps I’m being harsh, but I’m not seeing players with enough character to ever be winners.

Anyone could be excused for thinking these things. I am very much on the side of the argument that the quality is there but confidence is shot, mainly based off of body language during games. I look at Dele and Ndombele and see two players who want the ground to swallow them up. I look at players getting frustrated with each other because they are all hiding and just wanting to get rid of the ball as fast as possible (except for Dele, Lamela and Lucas who all look like they are so desperate to force a goal to help the team they end up rushing every action or over-thinking their choices.)

The only players who look confident are Lo Celso and Gedson and you can mainly see this in how much sharper they are and how they look fitter than everyone else. Dier looks to be finding some confidence now too, which is good news.

 

[Departed]

Good news? The performance pressure is off although finishing as high as possible is still important.

Time to sit back and enjoy the rest of the season for football's sake.

 

[Spursex]

Good news? The performance pressure is off although finishing as high as possible is still important.

Time to sit back and enjoy the rest of the season for football's sake.

there is a sound logic in that view, as I said, I've already written it off, so win lose or draw now, what we might see is (if allowed) some players playing with a greater freedom.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

there is a sound logic in that view, as I said, I've already written it off, so win lose or draw now, what we might see is (if allowed) some players playing with a greater freedom.

Our remaining fixtures are Man U (h) , Spam (h), Sheffield ( a) , Everton ( h), Bournemouth ( a ) , Arse ( h), Newcastle ( a), Leicester ( h), Palace ( a).

Pessimistic prediction by me is 10 points from that but it depends on returning players and their sharpness. The most optimistic I can be is 19 points.

 

[Harry-Kari]

Our remaining fixtures are Man U (h) , Spam (h), Sheffield ( a) , Everton ( h), Bournemouth ( a ) , Arse ( h), Newcastle ( a), Leicester ( h), Palace ( a).

Pessimistic prediction by me is 10 points from that but it depends on returning players and their sharpness. The most optimistic I can be is 19 points.

I’ve got 2 points on current form...but Kane and Son May make a difference.

 

[SpursEagle]

Not a reply to anything posted on here, but I got a text from my brother last night (Man U fan) saying that if Poch were in charge, we'd have been far better v Leipzig. Well, I took the bait, because he's listening to the media and the pundits who, like him, are not taking all the facts into account or are just being deliberately dishonest.

I had to remind him Munich shipped 7 past us in our biggest ever home defeat in Europe at our brand spanking new stadium. Back then when we had a team of:
Lloris, Rose, Verts, Toby, Aurier, Winks, NDombele, Sissoko, Dele, Son and Kane.
Subs that day: Gazza, Sanchez, Davies, Dier, Eriksen, Moura, Lamela.

We also got thoroughly played off the park by Brighton the game after that, losing 3-0 and it could have been more.

Last night we had:
Lloris, Tanganga, Dier, Toby, Aurier, Sess, Lo Celso, Winks, Moura, Lamela and Dele.
Subs: Gazza, Verts, Walcott, NDombele, Skipp, Fernandes and Parrott.

That's a huge difference in first team and especially what was available off the bench last light is staggeringly bare by comparison.

I also looked some other shite up to throw at him! LOL Such as, how our decline pre-dates this season and how the great run to the CL final really did paper over the cracks ... and in fairness to Souness and one or two others, they did mention this last season. Here's the stats from the Burnley game in Feb '19 to today.

Poch P35 W11 D8 L16
Jose P26 W11 D5 L10

I've counted the Norwich FA Cup game and the Colchester LC game as losses as we were knocked out of the comps, even though technically its a draw. I know you all know this, but I thought some raw stats and actual comparisons might find a place of reference here. Had Poch led that team last night, with that bench, would we have done any better?

Basically, solely blaming Poch or Mourinho lets Levy off the hook. This squad has been drastically neglected in certain areas and IMO the buck stops with Danny boy on that as our decline has been coming for a while now.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

I’ve got 2 points on current form...but Kane and Son May make a difference.

We could have Kane, Son, Sissoko and Davies back from 4th of April which is Sheffield onwards.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

We mostly agreed not signing for 2 windows was going backwards not just standing still. Add to that losing quality players and signing average ones once the purse strings were loosened a little. Sanchez and Moura are average, Ndombele , Gedson and Bergwijn not ready yet and average IMO. Then not signing a striker when your only one gets crocked. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Real Deal]

I don't think Jose has lost the players, and I dont think Poch ever lost the dressing room either (except for Eriksen, Toby and Wanyama.)

What is happening at the club is bigger. We became a victim of our own successes. Fans and pundits all started to demand silverware, because it was the only thing missing from how great we were. We had gone from a team who kept hovering around the 'best of the rest' part of the league to all of a sudden being title contenders and widely considered to be the best team in the league (over the course of the 15/16 and 16/17 seasons we won more points than any other team, so that was justified.)

The only problem was, we had a team of young players who didn't know how to get over the line for a trophy win, a manager that had never guided a team to a win, a chairman who never looked like he expected us to be progressing as quickly as we were and off-the-field hurdles like stadium moves and players wanting to leave but being denied. Now we have hired a manager who has one of the best CV's in modern football and people were instantly convinced that "this would get us over the line."

It's almost the expectations that have killed us. With the way it ended with Poch and the way it is going now with Jose, we are a mess. We have no identity, we have no leadership and we have a team of players who have struggled for confidence for a year.

There is no simple solution now. There is nothing wrong with the vast majority of our squad. It is a very decent squad that is easily capable of getting into the top 4 if they were confident and firing. Sacking Mourinho may seem like the only solution but even that is a dangerous move.

Whatever the least painful solution is, to act NOW would be a mistake. Get to the end of the season and Levy should take a long, hard look at the club. I have my ideas about what should be done but at the end of the day, those don't matter.

Expectations go with the tide. When you have players good enough to win trophies then why wouldn't anyone think about winning trophies?

No logic in thinking any different. You then turn into a Southampton type club. Totally pointless.

I'm convinced if we had Rafa in charge with the squad Poch had we would have won numerous trophies.

When Jose arrived I never thought we would win anything this season. Did anyone? I believed the chances had increased for the seasons coming but numerous factors would have to go our way for that to happen.

It's pretty evident that hasn't happened and the total opposite has happened. Car crash TV.

I don't agree it's a good squad. It's bang average one with 3 really good players with some okay young players coming through.

Who are these players that are good enough aside the obvious?

 

[Nick Real Deal]

Expectations go with the tide. When you have players good enough to win trophies then why wouldn't anyone think about winning trophies?

No logic in thinking any different. You then turn into a Southampton type club. Totally pointless.

I'm convinced if we had Rafa in charge with the squad Poch had we would have won numerous trophies.

When Jose arrived I never thought we would win anything this season. Did anyone? I believed the chances had increased for the seasons coming but numerous factors would have to go our way for that to happen.

It's pretty evident that hasn't happened and the total opposite has happened. Car crash TV.

I don't agree it's a good squad. It's bang average one with 3 really good players with some okay young players coming through.

Who are these players that are good enough aside the obvious?

I only thought the FA cup was a possibility but with injuries even that became unlikely.

 

[Spursex]

Expectations go with the tide. When you have players good enough to win trophies then why wouldn't anyone think about winning trophies?

No logic in thinking any different. You then turn into a Southampton type club. Totally pointless.

I'm convinced if we had Rafa in charge with the squad Poch had we would have won numerous trophies.

When Jose arrived I never thought we would win anything this season. Did anyone? I believed the chances had increased for the seasons coming but numerous factors would have to go our way for that to happen.

It's pretty evident that hasn't happened and the total opposite has happened. Car crash TV.

I don't agree it's a good squad. It's bang average one with 3 really good players with some okay young players coming through.

Who are these players that are good enough aside the obvious?

Many (unrealistically) did think we'd win a trophy.

This squad is far better than we're seeing, so can't agree with you on that; however, clearly there are two/three positions that need addressing and the players we have got have to be playing and building or rebuilding their confidence again.

 

[Real Deal]

We mostly agreed not signing for 2 windows was going backwards not just standing still. Add to that losing quality players and signing average ones once the purse strings were loosened a little. Sanchez and Moura are average, Ndombele , Gedson and Bergwijn not ready yet and average IMO. Then not signing a striker when your only one gets crocked. It's a recipe for disaster.

I like the look of Gedson. Sadly Sanchez has stagnated and hasn't progressed. Lucas and Ndombele can do one. Unsure on Bergwinj. Too much to soon IMO.

I still remember so many Spurs fans celebrating the 2018 summer transfer window like we won the league.

I was disgusted.

I did tell everyone it was a massive mistake and would come back to bite us in the butts. It's done more damage than I previously thought it would though. This could set us back a decade ffs.

Amateur decisions made from the big wigs at the club. Yet they still get their bonuses and pay rises whilst us the fans suffer.

 

[Real Deal]

Many (unrealistically) did think we'd win a trophy.

This squad is far better than we're seeing, so can't agree with you on that; however, clearly there are two/three positions that need addressing and the players we have got have to be playing and building or rebuilding their confidence again.

Of course it's better than we are seeing but it won't win shit mate. Take our two main players out and it's average. All you have to do is look at the stats to realize that.

We lost 20 games in all competitions last season with a better squad. We have already lost 16 in all competitions this season.

Don't get me started on our pathetic clean sheet record.

 

[Spursex]

I like the look of Gedson. Sadly Sanchez has stagnated and hasn't progressed. Lucas and Ndombele can do one. Unsure on Bergwinj. Too much to soon IMO.

I still remember so many Spurs fans celebrating the 2018 summer transfer window like we won the league.

I was disgusted.

I did tell everyone it was a massive mistake and would come back to bite us in the butts. It's done more damage than I previously thought it would though. This could set us back a decade ffs.

Amateur decisions made from the big wigs at the club. Yet they still get their bonuses and pay rises whilst us the fans suffer.

Just remember, that Poch boasted about schooling Levy on when and when not to buy.

Personally, I thought Poch must have a plan and that he knew the squad and who was coming through better than anyone and who the toxic ones we desperately needed to move on.

It's arguable that Levy should have known better - he had a coach who achieved incredible things way beyond his/our dreams - we were an established top 4 club, something I didn't think we'd see for another decade.

Levy must be sitting in his office and be banging his head against the wall, but he only has himself to blame.

 

[Matic]

If I was in Levy's position I would expect Mourinho to have some kind of identity in our play by the end of the season. Even if you don't have the calibre of players you need to play the way you want, you still expect to see the foundations laid.

If by June Levy doesnt see those foundations I would get rid of Mourinho. At the moment, we may have a very average attack because of injuries, but we are also showing no signs of defensive solidity or midfield cohesion either and we are in relatively good shape in both those areas. I watch the games and wonder what the hell is being done on the training pitches and why such a successful manager doesnt seem to be able to lift the spirits of a team who desperately need help.