Match Thread: Villa v West Ham under the Monday Night Lights | Page 21 | Vital Football

Match Thread: Villa v West Ham under the Monday Night Lights

david-avfc said:
I’d be happy with that. I think a 3-5-2 /5-3-2 might be a way to mask our deficiencies in the wide positions as I don’t think Jota and El Ghazi will consistent create enough chances for a lone striker.

We have an absolute terrible record in recent years whenever we’ve tried it though
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Sometimes I wonder if there is any point in even discussing other formations - Deano might flip to a 4231 but I cant see him even doing that never mind a 3 man backline.

For me our best hope is pushing Grealish further forward into the LW position but brought much more infield and closer to Welsey with El Ghazi/Jota/Trez fighting for the other side.
Let Marv, Luiz and McGinn run the midfield, between Marv and McGinn I think they'd run most teams into the ground and Luiz to pick up the pieces.
Two weaknesses with this option would be Grealish getting frozen out of the game if we lose the midfield battle (I dont worry about this too much) and he has to keep dropping and ends up too deep anyway. The other issue is we'll be playing fairly narrow on the left so we're relying on Taylor to get forward and provide width, we'd really need Targett to step up a lot. McGinn could get on the overlap too but again I'd rather him in the middle.

I personally think thats the way to go because (and albeit it was league one opposition) we basically gave Jack that role against crewe when he came on.
 
ironside said:
Six of the players who started yesterday are new to the club this season.
When Luis came on that was seven. It will take a few games for them to become comfortable and get used to the setup. Once we get a settled team, performances should pick up...I hope.
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That's a balanced long-term look at things. :clap::clap:
We'll have none of that on here! Don't you know it's all Neil Taylor's fault? :wagging::wagging:
 
CDX_EIRE said:
Sometimes I wonder if there is any point in even discussing other formations - Deano might flip to a 4231 but I cant see him even doing that never mind a 3 man backline.

For me our best hope is pushing Grealish further forward into the LW position but brought much more infield and closer to Welsey with El Ghazi/Jota/Trez fighting for the other side.
Let Marv, Luiz and McGinn run the midfield, between Marv and McGinn I think they'd run most teams into the ground and Luiz to pick up the pieces.
Two weaknesses with this option would be Grealish getting frozen out of the game if we lose the midfield battle (I dont worry about this too much) and he has to keep dropping and ends up too deep anyway. The other issue is we'll be playing fairly narrow on the left so we're relying on Taylor to get forward and provide width, we'd really need Targett to step up a lot. McGinn could get on the overlap too but again I'd rather him in the middle.

I personally think thats the way to go because (and albeit it was league one opposition) we basically gave Jack that role against crewe when he came on.
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I think the "problem" that we have is that McGinn and Grealish are at their best in advanced positions (while Hourihane, Lansbury and Jota could all be deemed the same). The 4-3-3 suits them with a holder/distributor behind, but then we become overly reliant on the wide players at times when the two Supers are nullified. After that match, I gained a new grudging respect for Declan Rice - he was responsible for taking away the space that the Supers would typically occupy and did it to good effect. In the premier league, most teams have that type of player that is singularly responsible for occupying the space in front of the back-four.
On the idea of Grealish playing further forward/wide, I don't think it would work. As our best player, and most certainly most comfortable on the ball, we need him in the middle of the pitch getting on the ball, whether it's picking it up and driving/passing forward, or getting on the ball in advanced areas.
The only way I could see it working is if we played a staggered midfield, with Luiz/Marv holding, McGinn in a number-eight role then Grealish as a 10. But my worry with that is you choke McGinn's natural energy and tendency to break forward and wide at will..... It would also require a lot of discipline from the wide players to tuck in defensively.
 
sirdennis said:
Be daft to get rid of players after 6 months.
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I can see it happening tho if they don't look like making the grade.

We are ruthless now and if the opportunity is there to replace underperforming players I can see us going for it.

This season is all about staying up by whatever means possible.
 
Melon Donkey said:
Jack has played 39 premier league games compared over 90 championship games.

All but 5 (this seasons games) have been in the last two seasons of us stinking the premier league out for season after season under god knows how many managers.

39 games isn't alot. He still has alot to learn I'm afraid despite our (not his) hype .

He made some poor decisions last night. He has to learn to be quicker in certain situations but then a lot of them do. McGinn was as guilty .
So call jack out then you need to call McGinn out.

But Jack was busting his gut for us last night and whether he makes the grade at a higher level than the standards he set (remember that was championship standards though) or not I'd rather he was with us instead of lining up on the bench for someone else.

And unlike Fulford suggested in one of his sneaky one line posts. No, Grealish will not be dropped anytime soon.
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It wasn't a sneaky post, it was there to provoke debate.
 
I'd like to see us change formation at least for away games, with both Marvelous and Douglas next to each other. From what I've seen of them both so far, admittedly not a lot, Marvelous is happier breaking up the opposition attacks in the middle, while Douglas seems happier playing a box-to-box type role, again down the centre. That would leave us with a choice of three players, out of five, ( Grealish, McGinn, Jota, Lansbury, Hourihane), to play in front of a strong holding duo. Maybe giving Davis the away games as lone striker would help, he's far better holding the ball up and bringing players into the game.
I must admit I'm somewhat perplexed by the almost hatred that Neil Taylor gets from some on here. He's a defender, (and since Coleman has been playing regularly Taylor appears to got over his fear of tackling), so he isn't an attacking winger and when he gets forward he makes up numbers by occupying a player out wide.
This change in formation just might work for us against Arsenal, who are pretty weak in central defence, with David Luis always likely to go missing or drop a bollock or two. Their fullbacks are normally quite strong and love getting forward, which means a bit of space for a midfielder to run into.
 
Taylor gets no hatred from me, but he's just a body whenever we have the ball. He can't beat anyone, he won't cross it and that means he only needs to be half marked by defenders who can concentrate on other players. That's why we almost never get an overload on the left. Defensively he's fine, but not good enough to justify the lack of options going forward.

Honestly can't see us changing formation right now. Most of Monday's let down was the sheer amount of misplaced passes under no pressure and there's no tactical remedy for that. Start with Trez, bench El Ghazi and consider swapping Nakamba for Luiz for someone calmer on the ball. Oh and tell big Wes to stay on his fucking feet.
 
Platypus said:
Taylor gets no hatred from me, but he's just a body whenever we have the ball. He can't beat anyone, he won't cross it and that means he only needs to be half marked by defenders who can concentrate on other players. That's why we almost never get an overload on the left. Defensively he's fine, but not good enough to justify the lack of options going forward.

Honestly can't see us changing formation right now. Most of Monday's let down was the sheer amount of misplaced passes under no pressure and there's no tactical remedy for that. Start with Trez, bench El Ghazi and consider swapping Nakamba for Luiz for someone calmer on the ball. Oh and tell big Wes to stay on his fucking feet.
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Completely agree about the misplaced passes , far too many , and also Wes , goes down very easily , he should be terrifying defenders and bullying them , not looking for fouls and going down .
 
Taylor has been one of our most consistent performers this season. 7 out of 10 every game for me.

And this coming from a guy who proper hated the bloke last year. I'd have driven him to any club stupid enough to pay the money for him, but he's improved 100 fold.

If we're looking for weak links in the current setup i think it's easy to pick him as he's not the most fashionable player, but he's not doing much wrong.

The weak link is so obviously our No.9. His ineffectiveness at holding the ball up or putitng the ball in the back of the net is putting pressure on everyone else.

I'm not writing him off entirely. it's early days. But he needs to improve quickly.
 
Fulford said:
I can see it happening tho if they don't look like making the grade.

We are ruthless now and if the opportunity is there to replace underperforming players I can see us going for it.

This season is all about staying up by whatever means possible.
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Who would you get rid of?

The game plan is to add value to the players we have signed so that we can sell them for more than we paid for them. Selling them after 6 months won't do that.
 
BodyButter said:
Who would you get rid of?

The game plan is to add value to the players we have signed so that we can sell them for more than we paid for them. Selling them after 6 months won't do that.
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Maybe not, but losing a few million on players is better than going back down to the chumps.

ATM the players at risk I would say are Weskey, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, Jota.
 
Fulford said:
Maybe not, but losing a few million on players is better than going back down to the chumps.

ATM the players at risk I would say are Weskey, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, Jota.
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I'll call this as bull Fulford. Not a chance any of them will be transfered in Jan.

Let's wait and see who's right :grinning:

I've said it soooo many times, our expectation levels way exceed what is achievable this year. It was always going to be difficult, catch a result here and there and hope that we survive. We have been competitive in every game so far. This will stand us in good stead but I agree with everyone who says we need more goals (and that does not mean we should have signed Maupay in the summer lol). Dean Smith is not fretting, so neither am I (yet).

I still believe :utv::utv::utv:
 
gmvillan said:
That's a balanced long-term look at things. :clap::clap:
We'll have none of that on here! Don't you know it's all Neil Taylor's fault? :wagging::wagging:
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Sometimes I wonder what forums would be like if everyone had the same holier-than-thou "let's not discuss anything about football until the entire football season is over and we see where we finish" mindset ? zzzz boring
 
ldgavfc said:
Sometimes I wonder what forums would be like if everyone had the same holier-than-thou "let's not discuss anything about football until the entire football season is over and we see where we finish" mindset ? zzzz boring
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But not only that, these are match threads, we should be able to talk about an individual game without people thinking we are haters.

So far this season, I've seen nothing to give me confidence, that doesn't make me a doomsayer, nor does it mean I don't think something will gel and I will gain confidence.

I thought, second half especially, we weren't very good v hammers and not to make changes to go for it when they were down to ten men was ridiculous.

Sue me. :oops::khat::sorcerer:
 
The Fear said:
But not only that, these are match threads, we should be able to talk about an individual game without people thinking we are haters.

So far this season, I've seen nothing to give me confidence, that doesn't make me a doomsayer, nor does it mean I don't think something will gel and I will gain confidence.

I thought, second half especially, we weren't very good v hammers and not to make changes to go for it when they were down to ten men was ridiculous.

Sue me. :oops::khat::sorcerer:
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You keep on telling us you haven't pot to pee in. On that basis, I'm out :tongue:
 
The Fear said:
No, really harsh red.

Surprised some are saying Marvellous was good. I (and those around me) thought he was pedestrian, gave the ball away far too much and wasn't up to the pace of the game.

Maybe it is a different match they play us in corporate?!
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I think in his defence, a player will take time to get up to match fitness let alone a player who isn’t used to the premier league. First half I wasn’t impressed, several sloppy passes but he did well second half.

I used to play in a side with half a dozen Zimbabweans and one thing I always found quite interesting was they all had a very similar trait in the things (flicks, turns, passes) they used to try and the amount of risks they took - some of that in Marvellous’ play on Monday.
 
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