Jose Mourinho | Page 55 | Vital Football

Jose Mourinho

Like you say, it needed repair, NOT demolition! Jose is not going to keep anything Poch built. Totally different managers with totally different styles and ideas.

It is totally irrelevant now because the decision has been made and Levy opted for demolition. With or without Mourinho, a chance of silverware within the next 5-7y ears has gone bar a lucky run in a domestic cup. Mourinho won't get the backing he needs to rebuild the squad in his image and the jury is out on whether he will want to stick around long enough to reach that point anyway.
Doesn't every manager have his own blueprint though? And it seemed to my eye that the players no longer bought into Poch's philosophy.

Just out of interest, which manager(s) of those available at the time would you have liked to see replace Poch?
 

SmithAndJones

Vital Reserves Team
Doesn't every manager have his own blueprint though? And it seemed to my eye that the players no longer bought into Poch's philosophy.

Just out of interest, which manager(s) of those available at the time would you have liked to see replace Poch?
Clearly at the time of Poch's departure Mourinho was the 'proven high calibre' manager available, particularly as Spurs had missed the boat with Brendon Rodgers, and I'm sure that most fans were of an open mind at the time that Mourinho was appointed. Your question could however be reversed to which managers would you have least liked to join Spurs, and I think that Mourinho would have been pretty high on the list for many.
Managerial selection is clearly a hazardous business, there were plenty clamouring for Eddie Howe to be given a top job not so long ago, with Spurs often mentioned. What odds now, Personally I would have preferred to see Spurs take a bit more time to appoint a manager who was at Poch's stage of development when he joined us, high potential looking for the next step up, but how many of those are there.
The decision to appoint Mourinho cannot really be criticised. Whether it has been, or will prove to be a good decision, is another issue altogether.
 
Excuse the long post - just joined :)

I’m a big Jose fan and when I heard his appointment I was very excited at the prospect of what he could bring. He probably thought that with the attacking talent currently here, he’d only need to tweak what was behind them.

But most likely to his surprise, he didn’t realise how tough a job it was going to be to get us defending well – nor how weak the player’s mentality is.

I don’t believe those who think he is too outdated to succeed. I re-saw his Inter team play Pep’s Barca in the ECL when they won 3-1 who play exactly the same way today – and Inter exposed them on the counter time and time again. And it wasn’t dull – it was extremely exciting to watch his plan come together perfectly.

But how many of our players would get into that Inter XI today? Only Harry Kane – but even at that particular moment Diego Milito was world-class.

At the moment we are improving defensively in a lower-block scenario. It was definitely evident against Man United. An incorrect VAR decision cost us the 3 points. And we had a good degree of control against West Ham. I think this is definitely something he’s been working on.

But the new partnership at the back, and not so frequently playing in a match where we have 70% possession of the ball, in this completely different scenario where the team needs to get back quickly, together and know how to defend this situation – this clearly either hasn’t been worked on, or the players aren’t capable of handling this situation. I think this is the later, as Sheffield most certainly exposed this time and time again, and our defence looked clueless – add in the weak mentality made it that much harder…

I think facing what the players had to the other day was a good thing with the dodgy calls – it teaches Mourinho more about the profile of his players. Who has the composure, who will he potentially be able to trust, who is worth working on to become an important first team player, or who needs to be shipped immediately.

But what may become more evident, is whether Jose will get the time that he needs. He knows how to win – even with a Chris Smalling and Phil Jones defensive partnership at the back.

But changing the style and mentality from such an offensive possession based game utilised for years, to a patient swift counter-attacking side isn’t going to be a quick thing. And will those players now playing this style have the attributes to competently carry it out? Decision making is abolutely key in the final third on the break – and that has still been lacking. We should have scored 6 or so against West Ham. No one would complain about the defensive football then.

I think at this point in his career, I do think Jose will want a more prolonged stay than his previous clubs, and most likely recognised this by taking on the job. But he needs everyone’s backing, and in the current modern day, I sadly feel he’s not going to get that time, or have the self patience to oversee a project that would appear to be a lot longer than he might have potentially expected.

I believe a lot of personnel change is needed immediately. A safe keeper between the sticks with Julio Cesar, a quick Lucio and physical Samuel combo in the CB slots that can handle different defensive situations, a Maicon and Zanetti for the wing backs and Cambiasso a solid DM in the middle.

And with his style of football, it’s key to have a creative player and set piece specialist. Inter had Sneijder, and we are severely lacking in this at the moment. I think Lo Celso may be better served as a centre mid that can bring the ball out into the central and final third, being a deeper creative outlet.

Like Klopp’s and Pep’s squads, they are all designed to play to their main game-plan and have already had a base squad, and the time / money to complete it. Mourinho’s way works…but in the modern day, it is a lot harder to find players to fill his roles, especially as players feel they are bigger than the club and manager – which increases the chances of falling out with players, which could easily happen if a lot of the players don’t want to play a more patient counter attacking style of game.

I would say this is where football progressing has got the better of Jose – player attitudes and being able to get away with it.
Welcome 83. Great first post.

Certainly got me reminiscing about some great players from yesteryear. They all have one thing in common as well. That is they were all intelligent footballers who could play to instruction. Jose has clearly found it hard to tame Sissoko, Aurier and has struggled with Son and Moura's football brains when it comes to his defensive system. It's also hard to counter when someone like Sanchez can never pick a pass when it's over 20 yards and Sissoko is always likely to give up possession.

Whilst Hojberg isn't an elite player, having an intelligent 6 footer like him in the middle of the park could solve a massive problem for Jose and get us a long term squad player. He clearly has smarts that our other defensive minded midfielders don't have.
 
I honestly believe that missing out on European football will damage us immensely.I don't think Jose is a big enough draw anymore to bring in top players we would need to get European football the season after.Plus look what's happened since the restart.Jose has had plenty of time on the training pitch and we are looking worse than ever.I have said this before but I am even more certain now.Jose is not the man to take us forward.After this week I think he may have lost more of the dressing room.He again never took any blame on Thursday just blamed the players for lacking mental strength.Now that may be true but do it behind closed doors and not in public.The buck stops with him.I thought we played better after the disallowed goal but were crap straight after his team talk.
Not how I saw it all. The team weakness came after the VAR incident. He then picked them up at half time and we were massively in the ascendancy for the first 10-15 mins of he second half. The problem came on 69 mins when Mousset score. We fell apart mentally again for the rest of the game.

I have no problem with what Jose said about the mental weakness. He has publicly thrown down the gauntlet to his squad without naming names. That is OK, and arguably good management.

Jose is clearly damned is he does and damned if he doesn't in everything he says and does as a manager at Spurs. He doesn't have a level playing field to operate on, but hope he keeps plugging away until he can rip out the weak links and build it stronger.
 
Clearly at the time of Poch's departure Mourinho was the 'proven high calibre' manager available, particularly as Spurs had missed the boat with Brendon Rodgers, and I'm sure that most fans were of an open mind at the time that Mourinho was appointed. Your question could however be reversed to which managers would you have least liked to join Spurs, and I think that Mourinho would have been pretty high on the list for many.
Managerial selection is clearly a hazardous business, there were plenty clamouring for Eddie Howe to be given a top job not so long ago, with Spurs often mentioned. What odds now, Personally I would have preferred to see Spurs take a bit more time to appoint a manager who was at Poch's stage of development when he joined us, high potential looking for the next step up, but how many of those are there.
The decision to appoint Mourinho cannot really be criticised. Whether it has been, or will prove to be a good decision, is another issue altogether.
There is a mismatch between the playing squad and Jose's football philosophy. Pep would come in and play Winks, Gio, Ndombele, Dele, Lamela and Kane and get us playing amazing football with a phenomal work-rate. Pep would kill or cure Son's defensive blindspot and work on his passing and movement so he becomes the whole package. He might make the line-up but potentially could spend a lot of time on the bench under Pep to start with.

Jose's natural system can't work without counter attacking pace so we have some great footballers benched so pacy guys like Moura, Aurier and Sissoko dominate line-ups and formations. That's why the first couple of signings are Bergwijn and Gedson. They fit the mould of Jose players.

What we're all curious about is what Jose transitions it to. Does his 20/21 football start to look more like Pep or Klopps and more aligned to what Arteta and Lamps are trying?
 
We have too many players who cannot do the basics and are gutless...........

Can't Cross a ball, cant shoot can't pass and can't tackle players.

They are not top footballers they are a waste of time.

If we want to see spurs start to frighten teams and really challenge we need to replace them

We all know who they are don't we!
 

Pompey Yid

Vital Youth Team
Having watched a display of the modern tactical football between Wol es and Arsenal this afternoon it was like watching a set of headless chickens running around...hundreds of 15 yard passes backwards, sideways, forward, backwards...loads of foul tackles not punished by the referee. dozens of very bad crosses until Arsenal got their usual piece of luck when one of the bad crosses clipped a defender and bounced into the path of one of Arsenal’s strikers who scored well.

it was about as exciting as counting red cars on the motorway...I’d be quite happy if we could defend against this style and then play 2 or 3 slick passes to score goals....I guess we’ll find out when the Arsenal Olympic running squad come to Fawlty Towers.
Bleedin hell somebody saw the same as me, even my eyes were trying to close, during that "demonstration" game, well said mate.
 
Thanks for the warm welcome all. I think one other thing worth mentioning is just how intensive football is nowadays – on a week to week basis.

It’s always been important to have a top class first XI – but even those on the bench need to be able to come into the team comfortably and do a good job.

We’ve lacked a full squad in the past – and with a new playing style it may alienate those players even more.

@muttley – spot on about player intelligence. Absolutely key in his teams – mental attributes as a whole, composure, decision making etc.

With the game now a lot more about physical attributes of strength pace and stamina, in theory it would provide a sterner challenge defensively. And perhaps in part Jose’s impact is not as immediate as some may have hoped for.

But with the right players, teams that do gegenpress / press really high should more frequently leave that room to get exposed.

City never replaced Kompany – hence they’ve lost a lot of games this year. But Liverpool with VVD at the back is extremely good at one on ones, not diving in and allows his team to get back – they’ve got a perfect balance for the modern game.

With changing style to Klopp or Pep’s – I’m not sure that’s something he’s ever tried implementing in the past, so I can’t really see that happening here.

The closest comparison would be to Real Madrid. He has pressed Barca very high up to prevent teams from playing, and once breaking that initial phase he’d quickly retreat to get his bus parked ready to counter.

That way it can unsettle sides and give opportunities for quick counters high up, but also force the other sides to feel they have to play a little bit more brisk when passing this initial pressing line as they won’t ever feel so comfortable on the ball.

But this is a very highly intensive game that cannot be played for 90 minutes and I’m not sure we would have the personnel to carry that out. Defenders would need to be excellent in one v one situations against teams that are capable of exposing a block when the offensive players are out of position.

Irrespective of that, every team needs to be able to adapt to different defensive situations in game. Only the training ground, partnerships formed and match experience can really develop this, hoping the players are up to it. We have a new partnership as it is now, so it's going to take time.
 

Spurs1569

Vital Youth Team
Whatever about Jose's 'failings' as a manager of producing attractive, attacking football, if he can't organise a team then that tells you a lot about the players.

Since he's been here I think he's been trying to make us defensively more solid. You can't expect our forwards to have to score 3 or 4 goals to win every game. And in the first two games after the lockdown there were signs that he was succeeding. Had we scored first against Sheffield I think we would have won at a canter and this discussion probably wouldn't be taking place.

It's in his DNA to build from the back. And at this stage I would sacrifice flair for a team that wins even if it's not pretty. He knows he has a lot of attacking potential at his disposal. If he gets the building blocks in place he can loosen the reins on our forwards.

When Poch was sacked Jose wouldn't have been my first choice. He wouldn't have even been in my top 5. But I do think he can change the mentality of not just the players but the club. I would give him at least another season to get a few players in and put his ideas into practice. If there's no discernible improvement a year on then we have to move on. But the idea that there's a stream of managers out there at present who can come and transform this squad, I think is fanciful.
I am sorry but I don't think he will.As long as he keeps blaming everyone else and not taking any blame himself he will not succeed.You would expect to see a big improvement out of the team once he managed to give them a team talk.They were worse.When things go wrong you can tell the metal of the man.When you are winning every week then it's easy.When you are struggling then that's when you earn your millions.Jose in his last 3 jobs when things were going wrong started to moan about everything, picking fights with the stars of the team just to prove that he was the boss.It backfired though as he got sacked by all of them.We shall see what he can do when he can only attract mediocre player's like Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg.He is used to signing top players but he won't here
 

RichmondSpur

Vital Football Hero
There is a mismatch between the playing squad and Jose's football philosophy. Pep would come in and play Winks, Gio, Ndombele, Dele, Lamela and Kane and get us playing amazing football with a phenomal work-rate. Pep would kill or cure Son's defensive blindspot and work on his passing and movement so he becomes the whole package. He might make the line-up but potentially could spend a lot of time on the bench under Pep to start with.

Jose's natural system can't work without counter attacking pace so we have some great footballers benched so pacy guys like Moura, Aurier and Sissoko dominate line-ups and formations. That's why the first couple of signings are Bergwijn and Gedson. They fit the mould of Jose players.

What we're all curious about is what Jose transitions it to. Does his 20/21 football start to look more like Pep or Klopps and more aligned to what Arteta and Lamps are trying?
Pep/Klopp would have shown Alli the door and his crap two years ago.
 

steveperryman

Vital Champions League
Pep/Klopp would have shown Alli the door and his crap two years ago.
The lad has the talent, he's already proven as much. There must be outside distractions that are holding him back. If so he needs to knuckle down & get a grip. He hasn't looked the same player at times this season although rather surpsrisingly his stats would say otherwise.
 
I am sorry but I don't think he will.As long as he keeps blaming everyone else and not taking any blame himself he will not succeed.You would expect to see a big improvement out of the team once he managed to give them a team talk.They were worse.When things go wrong you can tell the metal of the man.When you are winning every week then it's easy.When you are struggling then that's when you earn your millions.Jose in his last 3 jobs when things were going wrong started to moan about everything, picking fights with the stars of the team just to prove that he was the boss.It backfired though as he got sacked by all of them.We shall see what he can do when he can only attract mediocre player's like Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg.He is used to signing top players but he won't here
He was under no illusion when he signed that the funds available for transfers would be limited compared to what he was used to previously. He acknowledged that early on and has done many times since.

Hojbjerg hasn't even set foot in the door and you've already labelled him as 'mediocre'. Why not give him a chance first? He surely must be a significant improvement on what we've got at the moment?

The 3 clubs Jose previously managed may have sacked him but they all won trophies under him. And they all knew what they were getting before they signed him. They still went ahead though.

Why not give Jose one transfer window - as limited as that will be now - and one full season before passing judgement?
 

steveperryman

Vital Champions League
He was under no illusion when he signed that the funds available for transfers would be limited compared to what he was used to previously. He acknowledged that early on and has done many times since.

Hojbjerg hasn't even set foot in the door and you've already labelled him as 'mediocre'. Why not give him a chance first? He surely must be a significant improvement on what we've got at the moment?

The 3 clubs Jose previously managed may have sacked him but they all won trophies under him. And they all knew what they were getting before they signed him. They still went ahead though.

Why not give Jose one transfer window - as limited as that will be now - and one full season before passing judgement?
I'm in full agreement with you but if i may i would like to correct just one thing. His previous 3 clubs all won MAJOR silverware under him.
 

RichmondSpur

Vital Football Hero
The lad has the talent, he's already proven as much. There must be outside distractions that are holding him back. If so he needs to knuckle down & get a grip. He hasn't looked the same player at times this season although rather surpsrisingly his stats would say otherwise.
The last time the lad proved it was three years ago, teams have got wise to him and locked him away in their pocket. Falling over and losing possession is not going to unlock the door. The stats can say what they like; three years of evidence is undeniable.
 

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
The lad has the talent, he's already proven as much. There must be outside distractions that are holding him back. If so he needs to knuckle down & get a grip. He hasn't looked the same player at times this season although rather surpsrisingly his stats would say otherwise.
Jose alluded to hammy issues that are in the background potentially waiting to arise. Maybe Dele lacks confidence in his body.
 

Spurs1569

Vital Youth Team
He was under no illusion when he signed that the funds available for transfers would be limited compared to what he was used to previously. He acknowledged that early on and has done many times since.

Hojbjerg hasn't even set foot in the door and you've already labelled him as 'mediocre'. Why not give him a chance first? He surely must be a significant improvement on what we've got at the moment?

The 3 clubs Jose previously managed may have sacked him but they all won trophies under him. And they all knew what they were getting before they signed him. They still went ahead though.

Why not give Jose one transfer window - as limited as that will be now - and one full season before passing judgement?
Watching Hojbjerg has made me think he will not improve us.
Yes he won trophies with squads better than ours and more money.Then look what he done berated Ronaldo,Hazard and Pogba.He is not a nice man when things go wrong.I am biased because I really dislike him.His style of play and how he loves himself so much that everyone be dammed.I just don't want us going back to the bad old days when we were struggling to stay up.Signing average players when we need class.Jose doesn't know how to deal with a bad run and that's why he started slating his players abusing a lady.All I say is people think he is world class but would pep or Klopp be in this trouble with your squad.They are world class and you do not hear them boasting about what they done when they are questioned.
 

Spurs1569

Vital Youth Team
Not how I saw it all. The team weakness came after the VAR incident. He then picked them up at half time and we were massively in the ascendancy for the first 10-15 mins of he second half. The problem came on 69 mins when Mousset score. We fell apart mentally again for the rest of the game.

I have no problem with what Jose said about the mental weakness. He has publicly thrown down the gauntlet to his squad without naming names. That is OK, and arguably good management.

Jose is clearly damned is he does and damned if he doesn't in everything he says and does as a manager at Spurs. He doesn't have a level playing field to operate on, but hope he keeps plugging away until he can rip out the weak links and build it stronger.
I disagree I thought we were on top before halftime and looked poor in the second half until we took Ali on.

I agree that some of the team are not over cl final but you don't say that to the press and everyone else after they just lost and felt hard done by.You do that on the training ground in private.As a manager you take the blame That is what a clas manager would do