Beating the Arse. A Poisoned Chalice?

[spurdon]

Being honest when I saw Josh interviewed he didn't come across as the sharpest knife in the block. That could be unfair and not a true representation of him , maybe he was nervous or shy.

What would your unbiased assessment of Harry Kane be base on interview? Because every other non Spurs fan I know says "Not the sharpest knife in the block" Only with the words special needs chucked in for good measure. It means nothing in regard to the players ability.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

It's not how they say it, it's what they say. Intelligence will enhance ability and attitude. My opinion of Kane is of a humble minded
man of reasonable intelligence. I have seen Winks and Skipp interviewed and they come across sharper and more enthusiastic than Josh did at similar or younger age.

I challenge the notion that intelligence has no effect on ability. It's no good having talent but not using it correctly .

 

[Spursex]

It's not how they say it, it's what they say. Intelligence will enhance ability and attitude. My opinion of Kane is of a humble minded
man of reasonable intelligence. I have seen Winks and Skipp interviewed and they come across sharper and more enthusiastic than Josh did at similar or younger age.

I challenge the notion that intelligence has no effect on ability. It's no good having talent but not using it correctly .

It's no understatement to make here; it's been known for many years across many scientific studies that the best players tend to have higher than average intelligence a cognitively developed player learns quickly, absorbs instructions faster and can 'read' the ebb and flow of game more visually that allows him to 'see' the gaps/spatial awareness that buys truely great players time and space.

Thinkers, can and are often the most creative types and also of course are more able to express their opinions and deepen their understanding of tactics and the game.

Think of the very best as fast playing Chess players; they see moves on multiple levels instinctively that others do not - and you can often see it expressed in simple footballing terms as when to hold, when to dribble and when to pass.

 

[Spursex]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...ighly-intelligent-according-to-new-study.html

Footballers 'are highly intelligent' according to new study
Swedish researchers have concluded that professional footballers are considerably more intelligent than they are given credit for.

Smart: Burnley defender Clark Carlisle appearing on Countdown in 2010 Photo: PA


By Telegraph staff


11:56AM BST 05 Apr 2012


Researchers at the Karolinska Institute In Stockholm analysed the cognitive performance of footballers in Sweden's top flight as well as a lower league and concluded that the players who scored most highly in the test tended to score the most goals.

In addition, top division footballers outperformed lower division ones and footballers as a whole were in the top two percentile for the population by this measure.

The measure the scientists used was broader than IQ, taking into account the players' creativity, cognitive flexibility, working memory and processing speed.

One of the scientists involved in the study, Torbjõrn Vestberg, was not surprised by the findings.

"To be a footballer you must have physical ability and speed," he said. "But that doesn't help if you don't have a brain that knows what to do."


So where does the perception that footballers are unintelligent come from? Vestberg thinks he knows the answer.

"They are not stupid. They are very clever. But they start to play soccer when young. They don't have time for education. That's why they sometimes appear stupid."

"They have to know where their team-mate is, where the opposing player is and what he did the last time they met, and they have to do all that quickly."

Burnley defender and PFA official Clark Carlisle agrees: 'Footballers have often attained the level they have reached to the detriment of their education.

"People often judge [players] on post-match interviews. That is really unfair.

"Any athlete who has just undergone 90 minutes of exertion would interview terribly.

"To expect players to have TV skills and an eloquent demeanour is just as unfair as it would be for me to ask you to train with us then go out and score a hat-trick."

The study, which is published in Public Library of Science, could well have ramifications for the future, with teams basing transfers and selection not only on footballing prowess but on cognitive ability and speed of thought

 

[spurdon]

It's not how they say it, it's what they say. Intelligence will enhance ability and attitude. My opinion of Kane is of a humble minded
man of reasonable intelligence. I have seen Winks and Skipp interviewed and they come across sharper and more enthusiastic than Josh did at similar or younger age.

I challenge the notion that intelligence has no effect on ability. It's no good having talent but not using it correctly .

I think you are making a very common error that is to confuse being articulate with intelligence. There is a corollary but not a definitive connection between them. I give you Helen Keller deaf and mute but a genius. Your point regards Josh from an impression garnered from one interview is wholly subjective. Your stated belief that Kane has a "reasonable " intelligence is as valid as the folk who claim his interviews prove the reverse. But in simple empirical terms it is flawed and provably so. There's tons of research on this. Make no mistake I'm making no claims about Josh as a footballer but using an interview as a yardstick of intelligence is intellectually empty.

 

[muttley]

Cognitive and mitochondrial function is so high profile nowadays. There's a whole wave of modern medical scientists that are driving out the old ways of thinking. As well as driving out toxins in the diet and getting the omega 3 and 6 fats in the right quantities and ratios, there is a whole area challenging the previous thoughts on brain cells. The common belief now is that adults into their middle age can keep growing more neurons than they lose if they have the right diet and lifestyle. Continuous learning is something that has existed in the workplace for years, but has perhaps missed professional football.

Was so pleased to hear that after his Spurs debut, Skipp was back in his A-level Economics class the next day. Academia adds balance and I'm not surprised he sounds articulate.

As for Josh, thinking back to those early interviews with someone like Becks. Look at what he's become today when a camera and microphone is shoved in his face.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

I think you are making a very common error that is to confuse being articulate with intelligence. There is a corollary but not a definitive connection between them. I give you Helen Keller deaf and mute but a genius. Your point regards Josh from an impression garnered from one interview is wholly subjective. Your stated belief that Kane has a "reasonable " intelligence is as valid as the folk who claim his interviews prove the reverse. But in simple empirical terms it is flawed and provably so. There's tons of research on this. Make no mistake I'm making no claims about Josh as a footballer but using an interview as a yardstick of intelligence is intellectually empty.

I have dealt with and managed thousands of people and know a sharp one when I see them. I did suggest my observation was how he came across and it could be unfair.

 

[Real Deal]

Gazza was a dumb ass off the pitch but a genius with a football.

Then you have a player like Kaboul who seemed intelligent off the pitch but was a dumb ass on it.

 

[Bienvenu17]

It's no understatement to make here; it's been known for many years across many scientific studies that the best players tend to have higher than average intelligence a cognitively developed player learns quickly, absorbs instructions faster and can 'read' the ebb and flow of game more visually that allows him to 'see' the gaps/spatial awareness that buys truely great players time and space.

Thinkers, can and are often the most creative types and also of course are more able to express their opinions and deepen their understanding of tactics and the game.

Think of the very best as fast playing Chess players; they see moves on multiple levels instinctively that others do not - and you can often see it expressed in simple footballing terms as when to hold, when to dribble and when to pass.

I’ll take the Karolinska study at face value. However it doesn’t really take into account the theory of multiple intelligences. It isn’t universally accepted, but I think it’s brilliant. The 7 intelligences are

1. musical-rhythmic,
2. visual-spatial,
3. verbal-linguistic,
4. logical-mathematical,
5. bodily-kinesthetic,
6. interpersonal,
7. intrapersonal

2 and 5 would especially give an advantage for a footballer. Possibly also 1 - a sense of rhythm. 3. Verbal linguistic, doesn’t really factor in on the pitch, so a player who comes across as an airhead could still be very intelligent where it counts.

 

[freundorfoe]

I remember Beckham and the Neville brothers coming across thick as pig shit in interviews. G Nev is a very articulate pundit now and the others come across OK too.

That study focusing on Swedish footy is also a bit flawed and I'd imagine a similar study here would have different results. I'm not saying all footballers are thick at all, but there's plenty that are but still have sporting intelligence.