The academy needs to produce more...... | Vital Football

The academy needs to produce more......

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Cookiejar

Vital Reserves Team
Its painfully obvious here that the academy doesn't produce enough first team players and I think the last player produced who consistanly played was Tucker?

He has obviously left now but that was some time ago. Yes we have had a few players get a few minutes here and there but recruitment would be easier and cheaper if we had 1 or 2 coming into the first team group on a regular basis.

On a positive though as I understand it the under 13's through to under 16s are particularly good with the under 14s being a stand out group.

Maybe those involved in that more on here can clarify that.
 
Always makes me chuckle this.
God knows how many kids the premiership recruit in each year group. Add the rest of the football league and yet only a tiny percentage get to play professionally.
In the meantime the ' fans' on terracing drip on week after week at how rubbish these players are.
Where are all the better players hiding is what I want to know
 
Can we sticky threads and posts why this is the longest of shots?!

JoeScout has given a brilliant primer on this many times, as have others who understand the modern state of academy football.
 
Archiepoptart said:
Always makes me chuckle this.
God knows how many kids the premiership recruit in each year group. Add the rest of the football league and yet only a tiny percentage get to play professionally.
In the meantime the ' fans' on terracing drip on week after week at how rubbish these players are.
Where are all the better players hiding is what I want to know
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But most other EFL clubs seem to bring through one or two each year, and we don't. Why, is a very valid question.

I know someone whose son has been in the academy for a few years and is unhappy with how some of the young players are treated, particularly in decisions around who is kept or released. That's quite basic, but perhaps part of a bigger picture of why things aren't working as well as we'd like.
 
AbsoluteCarnage said:
But most other EFL clubs seem to bring through one or two each year, and we don't. Why, is a very valid question.

I know someone whose son has been in the academy for a few years and is unhappy with how some of the young players are treated, particularly in decisions around who is kept or released. That's quite basic, but perhaps part of a bigger picture of why things aren't working as well as we'd like.
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I have zero knowledge of the Gills Academy, but fyi, that could literally describe every academy up and down the country.

Kids are fodder. It's not two way.
 
It's not like you can turn a potential high level non league player in to the next Matt Jarvis, Nyron Nosworthy or Bradley Dack just by virtue of better coaching, you generally identify the kids with potential, and coach them to help them reach it.

One of the pods recently (think Jamie Redknapp was on it) was talking about how basically 90% of kids with any potential to be a professional whatsoever are identified by the age of 9, and will be involved in their local elite football academy, which Gills are not one of.

FFS even Jake Hessenthaler went through the Chelsea academy.
 
How many academy players have left Gills and succeeded elsewhere? The only one I can think of is Ryan Bertrand with Chelsea. Our academy is not classed as an elite academy, so the best kids don't come here.
 
The Roone said:
How many academy players have left Gills and succeeded elsewhere? The only one I can think of is Ryan Bertrand with Chelsea. Our academy is not classed as an elite academy, so the best kids don't come here.
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I can't be bothered to do the leg work, but I'd have thought the exceptional majority of our squad were involved in elite academies as their first club.
 
The Roone said:
How many academy players have left Gills and succeeded elsewhere? The only one I can think of is Ryan Bertrand with Chelsea. Our academy is not classed as an elite academy, so the best kids don't come here.
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Depends how you define success. The Jarvis/Bertrand/Dacks are exceptional cases. I’d be pretty happy if the academy produced a couple of solid L1/L2 players that make it to the first team squad.
 
MedwayModernist said:
One of the pods recently (think Jamie Redknapp was on it) was talking about how basically 90% of kids with any potential to be a professional whatsoever are identified by the age of 9, and will be involved in their local elite football academy, which Gills are not one of.
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At the risk of oversimplifying it, that's pretty much it from my perspective.

I'd argue the number is slightly higher - probably 10-12 you can still catch some later developers who will one day turn professional but the elite ones are spotted much earlier and the bigger clubs can basically pinch for pennies on the pound. The way EPPP is set up, all the information the big clubs need is on a plate for them. It kills the smaller academies and I say that with as much objectivity as I can, having worked with both Cat 1 and Cat 3 Academy set ups.

The only time I saw it not work was with one lad who shunned bigger clubs to stay local (albeit we're still talking a Cat 1, just a non-Prem team). His brother was also on a contract though and was a fan growing up which helped keep him on board through his scholar years. He's just moved to a Premier League team this year for huge money so it's inevitable one day, but at least some decent compensation was made from it. It was so apparent coaching him when he was 9 how good he'd be, but like I say - exception not the rule.

Said it before, we're much smarter looking for elite scholar/academy cast offs post-15. Sometimes the numbers game can deny the opportunity, not necessarily the talent. If we get known as a team that will blood them if they are good enough, we can still make a return without a significant outlay.
 
Trashbat said:
Depends how you define success. The Jarvis/Bertrand/Dacks are exceptional cases. I’d be pretty happy if the academy produced a couple of solid L1/L2 players that make it to the first team squad.
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Jarvis started at the Millwall academy before being released, Dack was at Wimbledon and Charlton before coming to us. It appears only Bertrand was here from his school days.
 
EPPP has essentially rendered trying to build an Academy programme redundant for a club like ours. Realistically there's very little point us even having teams under about under 14s, as anyone half decent will be lured to a Cat 1 Academy and financially we'll receive a fraction of value for them considering the time and effort put into finding them in the first place and coaching them for several years.

The system is now such that any kids that do come through are likely to be as said above - a cast off from another club. Whether that other club has got it right or not is the key factor at that point, so aggressive scouting of 14/15/16 year olds should be the key for us. I have absolutely no idea if we do that or not, but that's what I'd do if I were in charge.
 
JoeScout said:
EPPP has essentially rendered trying to build an Academy programme redundant for a club like ours. Realistically there's very little point us even having teams under about under 14s, as anyone half decent will be lured to a Cat 1 Academy and financially we'll receive a fraction of value for them considering the time and effort put into finding them in the first place and coaching them for several years.

The system is now such that any kids that do come through are likely to be as said above - a cast off from another club. Whether that other club has got it right or not is the key factor at that point, so aggressive scouting of 14/15/16 year olds should be the key for us. I have absolutely no idea if we do that or not, but that's what I'd do if I were in charge.
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Agree 100%. I hope Brad reaches out and brings you in from Norwich! :)
 
The point I was trying to make is still valid though. The number coming through compared to other clubs is very very low for a catchment area this big, regardless of whether cat 1 academies pinch the best ones or not.

Could we improve their coaching to get more through for example? Do we just never give players a chance? Matt baker being an example now playing for Newport or just unlucky?
 
Cookiejar said:
The point I was trying to make is still valid though. The number coming through compared to other clubs is very very low for a catchment area this big, regardless of whether cat 1 academies pinch the best ones or not.

Could we improve their coaching to get more through for example? Do we just never give players a chance? Matt baker being an example now playing for Newport or just unlucky?
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Have you really monitored the numbers coming through at other clubs or is you view based on assumption?
 
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