Electioneering has started | Page 10 | Vital Football

Electioneering has started

shotshy said:
To be honest Chris it doesn’t really matter.
No political party are proposing joining the EU.
Even the Libs have conceded that point.
Maybe in 20 years time but unlikely.
We’ve got used to it
They’ve got used to it
That’s the way it is.
The sensible thing to do is to cooperate when necessary, particularly on military security.
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Whilst I respect your leave position, that 5th line grates with me and, I'm sure, most people I speak to, however they voted, would disagree. We have certainly not 'got used to it.' We have endured the decline in standards, the lack of any tangible benefits, the rise in costs and the incessant distraction and blame culture used to avoid actually acknowledging that it's not gone well.
Remainers and most leavers obviously didn't get what they wanted or thought they were getting.
The damage is done. Minimising the collateral damage is what we must do now and not compound it by electing another self serving government.
 
The UK will not rejoin, even if it wanted to. Given the trouble that it kicked up all the time it was a member, despite all the special privileges it had, there is no way on earth that the EU would let it back in, other than on the most arm's length terms, as an associate member at best.
 
Alderman Barnes said:
The UK will not rejoin, even if it wanted to. Given the trouble that it kicked up all the time it was a member, despite all the special privileges it had, there is no way on earth that the EU would let it back in, other than on the most arm's length terms, as an associate member at best.
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I tend to agree, but if we did rejoin there would be no rebate, we’d probably have to adopt the Euro and financial regulations from Brussels, and freedom of movement again which has already been demonised by the right-wing press.

It’s not happening soon thanks to glorious leave voters, many of who can now see the mess the Vote Leave campaign created.

Sunny uplit hills.
 
Alderman Barnes said:
The UK will not rejoin, even if it wanted to. Given the trouble that it kicked up all the time it was a member, despite all the special privileges it had, there is no way on earth that the EU would let it back in, other than on the most arm's length terms, as an associate member at best.
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That's good news, plus others feel that even if they did readmit us, it would be on their terms and with too many onerous conditions like adopting the single currency and being included in Schengen. Things that we have always elected to avoid.

That is why I am convinced that we will not rejoin in 7-10 years when it could have become even worse and more political/bureaucratic and start falling apart anyway.

I think we can do without the "special privileges" of being one of only 4 members to make substantial contributions while over 20 deadbeat countries avoid paying their share despite benefitting from the trade. About the only attitude Trump ever got right.

Germany is propping it up, and already showing their own signs of strain: https://www.euractiv.com/section/ec...as-government-prepares-to-slash-gdp-forecast/
 
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Alderman Barnes said:
The UK will not rejoin, even if it wanted to. Given the trouble that it kicked up all the time it was a member, despite all the special privileges it had, there is no way on earth that the EU would let it back in, other than on the most arm's length terms, as an associate member at best.
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I think thats equally naive as those that say we could rejoin immediately if we asked. There’s no doubt the EU is weaker overall without the UK. Many politicians in European countries have expressed the view that we’d be welcomed back but there are the clear political obstacles that you’ve outlined to be overcome. But the trade gravities I’ve spoken about are real and whilst they’re a much smaller drag on EU countries than they are on us, there are very real reasons why we will be back in some form in a reasonably short time. In addition the ongoing threat of Russia makes a cohesive United Europe more important than ever. People underestimated the importance of that in the Brexit vote. Now you’ve got Trump undermining the NATO charter about mutual protection and that increases the importance of that issue.
 
Vambogills said:
Whilst I respect your leave position, that 5th line grates with me and, I'm sure, most people I speak to, however they voted, would disagree. We have certainly not 'got used to it.' We have endured the decline in standards, the lack of any tangible benefits, the rise in costs and the incessant distraction and blame culture used to avoid actually acknowledging that it's not gone well.
Remainers and most leavers obviously didn't get what they wanted or thought they were getting.
The damage is done. Minimising the collateral damage is what we must do now and not compound it by electing another self serving government.
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"decline in standards"
To what "decline" are you referring ?
(NHS poor and wasteful management ???)
And what is the direct line to Brexit ?

"the lack of any tangible benefits"
To you perhaps. But maybe that is because the Civil Service resisted the EU Inherited Law Bill (forgot it's actual name).
Officials said that they did not have enough time to review 8,000 laws (just half of the non-trade laws)....
...despite having had (almost) no scrutiny when the EU implemented them.

To us Leavers, the fact that a handful of Regs. have been reformed demonstrates the point of Independence.

What "rise in costs" can you attribute directly to Brexit ?
As distinct from Lockdown and Russia's invasion pushing up the price of energy (so everything) and grain.

"blame culture" ?
Indeed. as per your post - everything is the fault of Brexit !🫵

Again, what "collateral damage" ?
Whether here or elsewhere, it is tedious when posters say: "Brexit disaster" (or whatever) without evidence or data.
 
PuB said:
I tend to agree, but if we did rejoin there would be no rebate, we’d probably have to adopt the Euro and financial regulations from Brussels, and freedom of movement again which has already been demonised by the right-wing press.

It’s not happening soon thanks to glorious leave voters, many of who can now see the mess the Vote Leave campaign created.

Sunny uplit hills.
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What "mess" has the Leave campaign created ?

The only specific complaint that appears regularly is:
"I have to get my Passport stamped"....
...which appears to be directed mainly at French Passport control.

Having visited 3 other European countries recently, no delays at all...
..and some of us quite like getting stamps in our passport 🙂
 
Therealwaldo said:
I think thats equally naive as those that say we could rejoin immediately if we asked. There’s no doubt the EU is weaker overall without the UK. Many politicians in European countries have expressed the view that we’d be welcomed back but there are the clear political obstacles that you’ve outlined to be overcome. But the trade gravities I’ve spoken about are real and whilst they’re a much smaller drag on EU countries than they are on us, there are very real reasons why we will be back in some form in a reasonably short time. In addition the ongoing threat of Russia makes a cohesive United Europe more important than ever. People underestimated the importance of that in the Brexit vote. Now you’ve got Trump undermining the NATO charter about mutual protection and that increases the importance of that issue.
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"the trade gravities I’ve spoken about are real"
Yet again. An assertion without evidence or explanation.:wagging:

As RoW economies grow faster than the EU - and as the UK has more Trade Deals with more countries - UK - RoW trade is already increasing relative to the EU.

In what universe was it a "good deal" to pay £££billions fee....
...for the dubious "privilege" of being locked into an annual Trade Deficit - approx £95,000,000,000 pre-Covid ?
 
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I thought Sunaks speech regarding the dangers of divisive language and mob rule was hypocrisy of the highest order given some of the people the tories have had in cabinet - Anderson, Patel and Braverman spring to mind immediately and I am sure there have been others.

He's actually correct in what he says, he just needs to look at his own party for examples of it.
 
Tarian said:
What "mess" has the Leave campaign created ?

The only specific complaint that appears regularly is:
"I have to get my Passport stamped"....
...which appears to be directed mainly at French Passport control.

Having visited 3 other European countries recently, no delays at all...
..and some of us quite like getting stamps in our passport 🙂
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Very Tory to think there’s no mess at the moment, but, can you answer my previous question regarding what Brexit benefits you’d miss if we rejoined the EU tomorrow?
 
I don't think you lot are taking 30p and Cruella's message seriously enough.

As a London resident I've been taken over by the "Islamists" and the chip placed in my Covid jab by Bill Gates has been activated. As a result, I am helping Mayor Khan sell off my local 'spoons and turn it into a Mosque. The proceeds will go to Khan's Muslim mates to buy houses with.

Btw, some of the above I've actually heard people claim. :rolleyes:
 
Gills 58 said:
I don't think you lot are taking 30p and Cruella's message seriously enough.

As a London resident I've been taken over by the "Islamists" and the chip placed in my Covid jab by Bill Gates has been activated. As a result, I am helping Mayor Khan sell off my local 'spoons and turn it into a Mosque. The proceeds will go to Khan's Muslim mates to buy houses with.

Btw, some of the above I've actually heard people claim. :rolleyes:
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You forgot to mention the deep state, the Financial Times, Tommy Robinson and prosecuting doctors and nurses who worked through Covid.
 
Gills 58 said:
I've vowed to stay at home as London is a "no go" area, apparently. It's terrifying out there. I was actually caught in a shower today, no doubt caused deliberately by the "Islamists". Cruella is right. I've been bullied into submission.
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You are ok in Bromley which is the most white and least vibrant of all the London boroughs
 
PuB said:
Very Tory to think there’s no mess at the moment, but, can you answer my previous question regarding what Brexit benefits you’d miss if we rejoined the EU tomorrow?
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Where did I say "no mess".
(...and haven't voted Conservative for a decade.)

There are plenty of "messes" around:
- from uncontrolled, mass immigration putting up the cost of housing - so the cost of everything
- wasteful, over-spending "government"
- higher taxes (to pay for a Lockdown that Labour wanted harder, longer and would have cost another £ 100 billion)
- constant attacks on free speech, not defended by this Government.

But which "mess" directly results from Brexit ?


"What Brexit benefits you’d miss if we rejoined the EU tomorrow?"
Easy.
1. The ability to berate my MP for making or not making some law.
Knowing that he could speak on the matter multiple times with some chance of influencing.
And ultimately vote on the matter.
i.e. not saying:
"Sorry. I can't do anything. It's an EU competence.(despite it seeming an internal matter)"

2. Not paying £££ billions of taxpayers' money....for what exactly ?

3. Not being locked into a HUGE annual trade-deficit because of being tied to EU regulations and behind EU tariffs.
 
ThreeSixes said:
You are ok in Bromley which is the most white and least vibrant of all the London boroughs
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As someone who has worked in both Brixton and Tower Hamlets I can safely say I never encountered anything like a ‘no go’ area. In both jobs I needed to be in contact with local people. Funny thing is when you get to know people they turn out to be the same. There were bad apples in terms of crime, but I was never once treated or felt under threat. In both areas I often finished meetings late at night and needed to walk to either my car or public transport, so I think I’m reasonably well qualified to speak.
 
Tarian said:
Where did I say "no mess".
(...and haven't voted Conservative for a decade.)

There are plenty of "messes" around:
- from uncontrolled, mass immigration putting up the cost of housing - so the cost of everything
- wasteful, over-spending "government"
- higher taxes (to pay for a Lockdown that Labour wanted harder, longer and would have cost another £ 100 billion)
- constant attacks on free speech, not defended by this Government.

But which "mess" directly results from Brexit ?


"What Brexit benefits you’d miss if we rejoined the EU tomorrow?"
Easy.
1. The ability to berate my MP for making or not making some law.
Knowing that he could speak on the matter multiple times with some chance of influencing.
And ultimately vote on the matter.
i.e. not saying:
"Sorry. I can't do anything. It's an EU competence.(despite it seeming an internal matter)"

2. Not paying £££ billions of taxpayers' money....for what exactly ?

3. Not being locked into a HUGE annual trade-deficit because of being tied to EU regulations and behind EU tariffs.
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You can come out with this stuff as much as you like. I’m sure you feel that ‘sovereignty’ is worth anything. The polls suggest that people are coming to the conclusion that it isn’t worth it. Having brexiteers constantly saying “Ooh, look at Germany” cuts very little ice. Visit Germany and it very obviously isn’t broken. You’d have to be deaf, dumb and blind to think Britain isn’t. If you want me to list the things that are, I’d gladly do so but it would actually take me the rest of the day.
 
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