Here we go!

[Polly 433]

Maybe it’s the way you post like a fully paid up Tory or UKIP voter that causes the confusion.

It’s the EUs fault.
No it’s Remains.
Actually no I will blame both to distract from the clusterfuck…

Just plain blame, no distraction.

One can be anti Tory and anti EU at the same time. This government has provided more money to lower paid since last Labour government. Now it needs to give more power to the workers. The workers more often than not make sound balanced decisions if given facts, providing the hard left keeps beak out.

 

[Basha73]

Just plain blame, no distraction.

One can be anti Tory and anti EU at the same time. This government has provided more money to lower paid since last Labour government. Now it needs to give more power to the workers. The workers more often than not make sound balanced decisions if given facts, providing the hard left keeps beak out.

I disagree. The more you waste time and energy blaming the EU and Remain, the more the true culprits will be laughing at you and the more chance there is of them doing it again. In fact, if you look you will see they are.

It’s been a complete clusterfuck from start to finish and it’s no wonder that countries who were apparently right on the verge of following us have chosen not to.

 

[Polly 433]

One may think part of the “clusterfuck” that you mention is the second jobs fiasco. You and I may think and wonder where these characters get the time to hold down a second job. Surely the role of an MP, representing you and I is full time ++. It is under scrutiny and indeed civil servants are clearly mandated legally not to have second jobs. This is part of what is seen here as politician sleeze. In EU there isn’t’ such jibes of sleeze because it isn’t frowned up on, too have second jobs. Most MEP’s do, as do most EU officials and commissioners. Most frequently they work for investment houses at really good terms. I think it is immoral and improper to be paid twice for your time. At least in the U.K. it is illegal for civil servants and frowned upon, likely to be made improper. The EU on the other hand doesn’t take a stand. At least be consistent in your criticism.

 

[paz1967]

Remain worked with the EU to minimise Leave options. We were screwed by both as neither accepted the democratic right of the people. It has been widely reported the meetings behind the scenes which in another time would have been seen as treason and anti British. History will show how some politicians were anti democratic as the “we know best” group undermined the will of the people. The fact that many on here continue to support anti British action shows how much the fifth column has infiltrated.

with such a close populaition vote, you must remember half our own country put these demands on the other half ffs

 

[paz1967]

You really do not read any of my posts. I am not a Boris supporter. I am a Socialist Worker, Trade Unionist, Labour voter who having worked (secondment, so they can’t sack me for whistleblowing or stop pension) in Brussels and knows the way the EU works. I am glad to be out of EU but strongly want a change of flavour in U.K. government. I do not support Boris, or Tories so attack him/them by all means. What I do support is U.K. out of EU. The EU is the cult and many have bought in to that without having experienced their behaviour or understanding their longterm goals.

so you wanted Brexit but didnt vote for it?

 

[Polly 433]

I disagree. The more you waste time and energy blaming the EU and Remain, the more the true culprits will be laughing at you and the more chance there is of them doing it again. In fact, if you look you will see they are.

It’s been a complete clusterfuck from start to finish and it’s no wonder that countries who were apparently right on the verge of following us have chosen not to.

Who were these countries following us? Most get huge benefits from being in EU. U.K. was the country with by far the largest negative assets. Because we do not have a constitution we were made to fit the EU agenda. Most countries are now unable to untangle themselves from the EU web because they are also tangled up in Euro, with little control. No one will follow unless finances drive such action, not political will or democratic power. The Euro cannot be propped up by borrowing and bonds indefinitely.

I think you over estimate my standing and connections. I am just pointing out to a few, the other side of the discussion.

 

[paz1967]

One may think part of the “clusterfuck” that you mention is the second jobs fiasco. You and I may think and wonder where these characters get the time to hold down a second job. Surely the role of an MP, representing you and I is full time ++. It is under scrutiny and indeed civil servants are clearly mandated legally not to have second jobs. This is part of what is seen here as politician sleeze. In EU there isn’t’ such jibes of sleeze because it isn’t frowned up on, too have second jobs. Most MEP’s do, as do most EU officials and commissioners. Most frequently they work for investment houses at really good terms. I think it is immoral and improper to be paid twice for your time. At least in the U.K. it is illegal for civil servants and frowned upon, likely to be made improper. The EU on the other hand doesn’t take a stand. At least be consistent in your criticism.

The second job probably isnt full time despite some people do work 75 hours in a normal week anyway so one can certainly work 2 jobs.
I dont think a second job is an issue whatsoever, its my own right, so how can I deny others? The issue is obviously about prospering from inside knowledge of our system and providing advantages to certain entities that others do not have. Along with the transparancy.

 

[Polly 433]

so you wanted Brexit but didnt vote for it?

Yeah. I couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory but as I live in one of the safest Tory seats my vote would stand for very little.

A poor Labour government is better than a good Tory.

History shows that. However I couldn’t bring myself to vote Labour with its confused stance on EU and anti Semitic power games and the way it had ridden over local party candidate wishes. ( see KS is putting thru rules in Labour Party today which will make it more difficult for a small group of momentum supporters to disenfranchise the local party. Power back to the local people).

Went for protest vote.

At least I have a vote. Who holds the real power in EU? The MEP’s or The Commission? In fact the unelected commissioners hold enormous power over many aspects of life. MEP’s very little. Have you heard what the MEP’s are taking and voting for today, this week, this year? Thought not. All big decisions are made by an unelected group. That group is an old friends club. I am so, so, glad we are out.

 

[Basha73]

Who were these countries following us? Most get huge benefits from being in EU. U.K. was the country with by far the largest negative assets. Because we do not have a constitution we were made to fit the EU agenda. Most countries are now unable to untangle themselves from the EU web because they are also tangled up in Euro, with little control. No one will follow unless finances drive such action, not political will or democratic power. The Euro cannot be propped up by borrowing and bonds indefinitely.

I think you over estimate my standing and connections. I am just pointing out to a few, the other side of the discussion.

There were plenty of countries apparently considering their future but seemingly not any more and not one is saying it’s because they are too entangled.

I am not over estimating. You are one of many that follow the mantra that Brexit is great apart from when it isn’t and the bad bits are all the fault of the EU and Remain. Boris thanks every one of you.

 

[Basha73]

One may think part of the “clusterfuck” that you mention is the second jobs fiasco. You and I may think and wonder where these characters get the time to hold down a second job. Surely the role of an MP, representing you and I is full time ++. It is under scrutiny and indeed civil servants are clearly mandated legally not to have second jobs. This is part of what is seen here as politician sleeze. In EU there isn’t’ such jibes of sleeze because it isn’t frowned up on, too have second jobs. Most MEP’s do, as do most EU officials and commissioners. Most frequently they work for investment houses at really good terms. I think it is immoral and improper to be paid twice for your time. At least in the U.K. it is illegal for civil servants and frowned upon, likely to be made improper. The EU on the other hand doesn’t take a stand. At least be consistent in your criticism.

Being a civil servant I can tell you that it isn’t illegal at all to have a second job and I know plenty that do. There are rules that have to be followed but that’s a very different thing.

 

[Polly 433]

The second job probably isnt full time despite some people do work 75 hours in a normal week anyway so one can certainly work 2 jobs.
I dont think a second job is an issue whatsoever, its my own right, so how can I deny others? The issue is obviously about prospering from inside knowledge of our system and providing advantages to certain entities that others do not have. Along with the transparancy.

True. But isn’t it the same in EU where it is far more rampant. Both are wrong but one has to stand up to criticism whilst the other is allowed, nay supported. The EU supporting voices on here point out the negatives of practice of U.K. Govt. but do not call out the EU for worse practice. In fact they herald their faults without a passing word.

 

[paz1967]

True. But isn’t it the same in EU where it is far more rampant. Both are wrong but one has to stand up to criticism whilst the other is allowed, nay supported. The EU supporting voices on here point out the negatives of practice of U.K. Govt. but do not call out the EU for worse practice. In fact they herald their faults without a passing word.

I always find it hard to debate with people who alway say "oh but they did it", its literally what I get from awkward teenagers in denial. It doesnt address the issues at all[/QUOTE]

 

[Polly 433]

And if they break the Code?

 

[Basha73]

And if they break the Code?

Again - it is not illegal for civil servants to have a second job.

 

[Strett]

Just another reminder that there is an ongoing Rule of Law Crisis in the EU

The fact it exists means the EU is in daily breach of its Treaty with the UK.

 

[Feco]

Yeah. I couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory but as I live in one of the safest Tory seats my vote would stand for very little.

A poor Labour government is better than a good Tory.

History shows that. However I couldn’t bring myself to vote Labour with its confused stance on EU and anti Semitic power games and the way it had ridden over local party candidate wishes. ( see KS is putting thru rules in Labour Party today which will make it more difficult for a small group of momentum supporters to disenfranchise the local party. Power back to the local people).

Went for protest vote.

At least I have a vote. Who holds the real power in EU? The MEP’s or The Commission? In fact the unelected commissioners hold enormous power over many aspects of life. MEP’s very little. Have you heard what the MEP’s are taking and voting for today, this week, this year? Thought not. All big decisions are made by an unelected group. That group is an old friends club. I am so, so, glad we are out.

I voted for Remain, not because I like the Commission, I don't, more the fact I liked the ability to work and travel within the biggest trading block in the world.
I like that we all share the same standards, I like that it offered protection against entities that were alien to these principles, and I liked that I could live and work across a continent with little or no restrictions.

I don't disagree that the commission needs a remodel, it certainly does.
I would, however argue that the UK not being involved anymore probably makes that job harder, surely a Eurosceptic nation adds a balance to the continued evolution of the EU?

As for voting, I passed a vote in every European Parliament Election, just like I pass a vote in every General Election here in the UK.
With the PR system, I generally got a candidate from my chosen party elected even if their influence on the Commission and its make up was limited.
In twenty years of voting in a GE, I have never once had someone elected that represented my views.
Furthermore, with the electoral system employed in the UK, in excess of 50% of the populations wishes have been ignored too, no sitting Government has ever got above 44% of the vote share since 1970!!
Which brings us to the current situation in the UK where we have Government that appear to be able to do what they want with impunity.
The UK Government personal may differ from the EU Commission in the fact that they are 'elected', but they are still running the show like an old friends club, and you won't get them removed before the next election.
There isn't that much difference between the two.

 

[Polly 433]

Feco’s argument, we’ll put, would be stronger if the representation he has, had any power and responsibility. He voted for an MEP who has very limited power and only in what the EU and Commissioners allow discussion and votes on. He got no vote on who or what commissioners stood for and cannot get rid when shown to be incompetent. If he had true representation then that would be different.

We were the Eurosceptic voice that challenged many decisions but not once did that sway them from the road they are on. They are playing the long game.

 

[Bremen Tree]

How many times can you go barking up wrong tree in one day. What makes you think I voted Tory when on several posts I have stated I have never voted Tory in my life. Can you read English or do you only read what you think is being said. Am a paid up member of Labour Party, trade unionist and socialist worker.

Because the U.K. government is far from perfect, in fact plain awful, doesn’t make the EU less divisive, vindictive and self serving. The only positive I can think of is that I can vote the U.K. government out. I nor any others can vote out any EU member. Go and bark at the moon.

Tory in labour clothing.

 

[Basha73]

Yeah. I couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory but as I live in one of the safest Tory seats my vote would stand for very little.

A poor Labour government is better than a good Tory.

History shows that. However I couldn’t bring myself to vote Labour with its confused stance on EU and anti Semitic power games and the way it had ridden over local party candidate wishes. ( see KS is putting thru rules in Labour Party today which will make it more difficult for a small group of momentum supporters to disenfranchise the local party. Power back to the local people).

Went for protest vote.

At least I have a vote. Who holds the real power in EU? The MEP’s or The Commission? In fact the unelected commissioners hold enormous power over many aspects of life. MEP’s very little. Have you heard what the MEP’s are taking and voting for today, this week, this year? Thought not. All big decisions are made by an unelected group. That group is an old friends club. I am so, so, glad we are out.

I voted for Remain, not because I like the Commission, I don't, more the fact I liked the ability to work and travel within the biggest trading block in the world.
I like that we all share the same standards, I like that it offered protection against entities that were alien to these principles, and I liked that I could live and work across a continent with little or no restrictions.

I don't disagree that the commission needs a remodel, it certainly does.
I would, however argue that the UK not being involved anymore probably makes that job harder, surely a Eurosceptic nation adds a balance to the continued evolution of the EU?

As for voting, I passed a vote in every European Parliament Election, just like I pass a vote in every General Election here in the UK.
With the PR system, I generally got a candidate from my chosen party elected even if their influence on the Commission and its make up was limited.
In twenty years of voting in a GE, I have never once had someone elected that represented my views.
Furthermore, with the electoral system employed in the UK, in excess of 50% of the populations wishes have been ignored too, no sitting Government has ever got above 44% of the vote share since 1970!!
Which brings us to the current situation in the UK where we have Government that appear to be able to do what they want with impunity.
The UK Government personal may differ from the EU Commission in the fact that they are 'elected', but they are still running the show like an old friends club, and you won't get them removed before the next election.
There isn't that much difference between the two.

Feco’s argument, we’ll put, would be stronger if the representation he has, had any power and responsibility. He voted for an MEP who has very limited power and only in what the EU and Commissioners allow discussion and votes on. He got no vote on who or what commissioners stood for and cannot get rid when shown to be incompetent. If he had true representation then that would be different.

We were the Eurosceptic voice that challenged many decisions but not once did that sway them from the road they are on. They are playing the long game.

You comment on Feco’s representation having no power or responsibility shortly after saying your own vote in U.K. politics is nigh on meaningless because you live in a Tory stronghold.

See the similarity? How easy have you found it to oust your Tory MP? I am sure you will come up with some deflection or justification though for what reads to me like parochial hypocrisy.

 

[Polly 433]

You comment on Feco’s representation having no power or responsibility shortly after saying your own vote in U.K. politics is nigh on meaningless because you live in a Tory stronghold.

See the similarity? How easy have you found it to oust your Tory MP? I am sure you will come up with some deflection or justification though for what reads to me like parochial hypocrisy.

You are struggling with the concept of democracy, constituency and first past the post. Not perfect but the best we have got.