Aston Villa v Leeds United Friday 23rd 8pm Match Thread

[DeanoVilla]

Yes, but he didn't for almost every game last season unlike us.

Well you know I've never been a Smith fan and wanted him gone last season, but even I find it hard to slate him after the start (and finish to last season) that we've had.

He's definitely bought himself some time, and to expect us to win every single game, or even play well in every single match is just unrealistic.

 

[Pangloss]

Nope, if you’d actually read the posts then you’d get a better sense that players, coaching staff and Lady Luck all took their fair and equal share of the blame.

As you say (as have I and others), on to Southampton to see a response.

Yep it's fine to dissect things.

If we want to be really macro about then we simply came up against a better coach with better tactics and better players on the night and we were found wanting. It happens a lot in sport. We just need to do better in our next game!

 

[Thomas Holte]

Well you know I've never been a Smith fan and wanted him gone last season, but even I find it hard to slate him after the start (and finish to last season) that we've had.

He's definitely bought himself some time, and to expect us to win every single game, or even play well in every single match is just unrealistic.

If it wasn't for the forced Covid break in football, I think he was on the verge of being released after defeat after defeat in February and March. The Covid break gave him valuable time to reassess where it was going wrong with the team and himself and fair play to him, that he actually managed to get himself and the team out of the hole that was dug.

Only a fool would expect to win every game as I have already said.

Yes, he's bought himself some more time but my main complaint is I still see the same mistakes being made and I think that's solely down to his managerial limitations.

He's a smashing guy who I'd love to see be successful at Villa Park but I personally believe those limitations will finally see him forced out.

 

[crimsondonkey]

Yes, and as @ldgavfc is right to point out, this was the end of a 9 game unbeaten run. So not a cause for panic but I think it is fair to analyse what happened and for those involved to put their hands up for it.

Also a lot of comments about Shakey not being there last night, is that true or just a snide point being made? I’m sure he’s been on the touch line for the other games?

 

[eltoro]

My Ratings
Martinez - 6 Couldn't do much about the goals and did reasonably with crosses. However was too ponderous when he had the ball.
Cash - 4 Didn't get much help on that side, but was toasted by Harrison all night long in every 1v1.His positioning was terrible - he was neither too close to prevent Harrison from getting it, nor deep enough to deal with him when he did.
Targett - 6 Not much came down his side, but was adequate and did make a few attempts to link with the attack
Konsa - 6 Average display
Mings - 3 Completely lost the plot and allowed Bamford to rule him. Needless yellow card for shoving Leeds player to the ground and was lucky to escape a second when he grabbed Bamford by the neck. On all three goals he turned sideways instead of actually attempting to block. For such a big unit he certainly seems scared of a round bag of air coming at him.
Luiz - 6 Exposed time and time again due to the two in front of him.
McGinn - 4 And that's being generous. Completely invisible for a large part of the match. Knocked off the ball, passed to the opposition countless times. Jogging back is not a recovery run.
Barkley - 3 See McGinn and add the fact that he looks like he's running in wet cement whenever he has to go back towards his own half.
Grealish - 6 Tried but other than the two chances he was largely ineffective. Seemed to be glued to the left touchline most of the match and was comfortably shackled. Too much complaining to the ref and deserved the yellow card for dissent.
Trezeguet - 3 Terrible performance tonight. Lost the ball so many times and was little help to Cash, who was clearly struggling to contain Harrison.
Watkins - 5 Looked physically weak tonight and couldn't seem to work space for himself

I think teams are becoming aware of McGinns move, i.e stick your arse out and back into the player and hope the ball runs through, if it doesn’t, and more times than not last night it didn’t, he’s left on his arse or with his back to the action and then we’re one short in defence. 1/10 piss poor.
And don’t forget to rate Dean Smith, 1/10 also, no idea how to change the squad to cope with a 90 min Onslaught down our right side.

 

[colavfc]

Same as many im pissed off. We didnt perform bar a few and we looked very vulnerable. However. Like many have said on here.... we cant expect to go from a very very very very very very poor premier league team to world beaters in 5 games. New signings are still bedding in etc.
I refuse to watch any coverage, web pages of sky news because i know what its going to be and cant stand to watch that gimp bamford. Little gimp.
By the way... that little gimp should have got a yellow for simulation. GIMP

 

[Thomas Holte]

Same as many im pissed off. We didnt perform bar a few and we looked very vulnerable. However. Like many have said on here.... we cant expect to go from a very very very very very very poor premier league team to world beaters in 5 games. New signings are still bedding in etc.
I refuse to watch any coverage, web pages of sky news because i know what its going to be and cant stand to watch that gimp bamford. Little gimp.
By the way... that little gimp should have got a yellow for simulation. GIMP

I also totally avoid all social media (including the radio) when we lose like that because I can't stand to see or hear it plus the Leeds/Bielsa love-in I've no doubt is going on.

 

[eltoro]

That was a lesson that our best side is still not good enough and all this nonsense about not needing more players is just that nonsense.
We couldn't change anything tonight except Traore, as I said this morning we will lose eventually with or without Trez, who was totally out of his depth in that game.
He wasn't alone on that showing but at least Deano can start him against Southampton unless he wants a more defensive unit then he starts Elmo.

I can't even say we were unlucky we were totally outgunned everywhere.
The luck ran out tonight

I understand that you weren’t in my home last night, but if you had been you’d have seen me pleading to Smith to change it, and when they went in at half-time I would’ve put money on that trez wouldn’t come out and Elmo would, changing to a back 5, but no, every single ball Leeds played was into acres of space down our right

 

[Divine_islet]

Hope you’re right, that was a no show from everyone, players and staff. Let’s hope that has brought them back to reality.

The contrast between the two sides was seismic. Leeds were energetic, intense, organised and relentless. Bielsas change after 20 mins summed it up - he knew what needed to happen to get the win and was decisive and changed it without delay.

Villa were slow, lacking effort, lacking cohesion and the right shape, and didnt change when it was perfectly obvious that it was needed, and urgently. The lack of basic tracking etc was just appalling.

I hope players and staff watch that game back today and take a good look at themselves, they were all lacking.

I want to see a response not a repeat.

I personally don’t think we could have averted defeat seeing how they played yesterday. They were on a different level from the get-go and there was no stopping them. The whole game I was waiting for them to tire as many people on here were predicting, but frankly there was no sign of any tiredness in their players. In fact they were playing as if they were chasing the game. The praise for them in the media has now only increased further as they hammered the team away that hammered Liverpool.

 

[Villan57]

I understand that you weren’t in my home last night, but if you had been you’d have seen me pleading to Smith to change it, and when they went in at half-time I would’ve put money on that trez wouldn’t come out and Elmo would, changing to a back 5, but no, every single ball Leeds played was into acres of space down our right

I hate to say this because this Beelzebub love in does my head in but a good manager changes things before they happen and he was brave enough to take off a player after twenty-odd mins because he was getting roasted and would have been sent off.
Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and think these are running us ragged let's stop them scoring and Jack will work some magic and win it for us. ie stick Elmo and Marv on and get a grip of the midfield.

 

[zaijianforth]

I thought I was watching a re run of last season. No desire, seemed lethargic and ran out of ideas at the end. Bamford took his goals well but what a cheating B%$#@¥d!!!

 

[Divine_islet]

Totally agree.

Although depends what you mean by change . Tactics yes. But players . No. I will be like a stuck record this season but apart from Traore not one of those benched players would have changed things yesterday. They are simply not good enough in that respect. Been saying it since game 1. So have most. I do hope we are not going down the players all of sudden being better when they are not playing route after one loss.

I agree with you on the subs. It seems people have forgotten how fantastic our subs are. Stoke game in the cup should ring a bell ! Our main problem is we do not have an effective style of play. If Ross and Jack get injured or are not in form we will slide down the table swiftly. A team like Leeds can play teenage or older debutants or players with little prem experience and still their style of play will remain the same. For a team like ours that has none, the short term solution is to spend a ton of money to buy quality and the long term answer is working on playing like they do until we achieve it even it means continuing it god forbid in the championship.

 

[eltoro]

I hate to say this because this Beelzebub love in does my head in but a good manager changes things before they happen and he was brave enough to take off a player after twenty-odd mins because he was getting roasted and would have been sent off.
Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and think these are running us ragged let's stop them scoring and Jack will work some magic and win it for us. ie stick Elmo and Marv on and get a grip of the midfield.

My thoughts exactly, it’s a big concern, and one that I can’t forgive him for, that at half-time He never even tried to address our problems, it’s all right blaming the players and Yes they were shite, but why should the manger get away with it because of previous performances but the players don’t?

 

[crimsondonkey]

I personally don’t think we could have averted defeat seeing how they played yesterday.

Well raising your own game helps!

Luck might have also changed things, if one of Grealish efforts went in then the whole dynamic changes.

But not getting a grip in the middle and leaving Cash exposed all the time are things that could have and should have been changed.

There is no reason to persist with a game plan that clearly isn’t working.

 

[Villan57]

Don't get me wrong I'm still happy with the start we've made, i just enjoy analysing games and where we could have done better.
I do it when we win as well but it's a bit harder then as people think you are criticising even after a win but I have a background in continuous improvement and quality and it rubs off into everything I do, well football anyway

 

[Villan57]

Well raising your own game helps!

Luck might have also changed things, if one of Grealish efforts went in then the whole dynamic changes.

But not getting a grip in the middle and leaving Cash exposed all the time are things that could have and should have been changed.

There is no reason to persist with a game plan that clearly isn’t working.

we left him exposed to Jota against Liverpool but got away with it that day

 

[Langoe66]

I think teams are becoming aware of McGinns move, i.e stick your arse out and back into the player and hope the ball runs through, if it doesn’t, and more times than not last night it didn’t, he’s left on his arse or with his back to the action and then we’re one short in defence. 1/10 piss poor.
And don’t forget to rate Dean Smith, 1/10 also, no idea how to change the squad to cope with a 90 min Onslaught down our right side.

McGinn was disappointing last night as were most of them but think there’s been enough to show he’s been getting back to some kind of form at the start of this season. I really don’t get the venom aimed at some players based on one performance after we’ve won four on the spin when much of what we’ve seen thus far has been pretty decent. Suppose you would drop McGinn next week then based on 1 out of 10?

 

[crimsondonkey]

I have a background in continuous improvement and quality

So do I, and competitive sport both as an athlete and a coach, so it comes with the territory, win or lose.

 

[Pride of Lions]

Yeah, all the Bielsa/Leeds loving media/pundits will continue creaming themselves after last night.

Given a choice, I'd preferred beating Leeds last night and getting beat at Southampton. Now, hopefully, it'll be the reverse.

 

[Divine_islet]

There's a reason we've never win our opening 5 games of a season before... Its bloody hard to do!

We've had some amazing teams over the centuries, and yet now people throwing their toys out the pram coz this group didn't manage to eclipse them all....

Can't catch my breath.

A defeat is always annoying. A defeat should always piss you off. But sometimes you've got to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.... We're 2nd in the league after 5 games..... We're massively over achieving. Just calm down.

I don’t think anyone was expecting us to continue the winning run through to the end of the season. Everyone or pretty much everyone is pissed due to the manner of the defeat and maybe due to losing to Leeds as well of all teams considering how much they are hated.