O/T Covid-19 - Discussion for the duration of this crisis. | Page 100 | Vital Football

O/T Covid-19 - Discussion for the duration of this crisis.

paddyspur said:
Ioan, you point at something very important, which is that in a single discussion board like this, there might be several levels of conversation trying to go on at the same time.

the different levels can't really satisfy each other, and tend to proceed from different world views, which particularly have a schism around 'trust the system, and believe in those who know better and are more intelligent than you' versus 'as i get older i have a suspicion that what i am told, and what i have been told about how things work, isn't really the all of it - and i want to join the dots for myself, to see what i wasn't brought up to see, even what others don't want me to see or say doesn't exist'.

With that in mind, here's eight graded levels of response and world view to the current situation (be it epidemic / pandemic / plandemic / eventuality / evolutionary opportunity / karmic consequence / predictable cyclic human manifestation):

1. “I will survive”
2. “I believe and trust those who know better than me, who surely have my best interests at heart”
3. “I find comfort in tribe and selected trusted community, and put myself out to reassure those who need order to believe and trust in, and who need to know that others have their best interests at heart”
4. “I am unable to not think critically for myself, ask questions and explore my doubts, ideas and hunches, and am aware when other people or situations try to stop me doing so for their own agenda/needs in 1-3”
5. “Evolving my being and/or my doing”
6. “The realization of how I am an integral part of the causation and problem”
7. “Unless we can learn to work and relate systemically, then we will be left behind”
8. “It is as it is”.
Click to expand...

It is always interesting to read your posts and the information you provide through them.

I believe a lot of questions will be answered when (if ever) we will find out how the virus was existed/created/transmitted to humans, when and where that crisis has started and why it was so rapidly spread in different parts of earth but with a different rate of infections and deaths in the different continents and countries.
 
Just saw this interesting article from a couple of days ago. Professor Robert Dingwall is based at Nottingham Trent University and sits on the Government's New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), which feeds into its Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE).

Speaking in a personal capacity, he said: "We have this very strong message which has effectively terrorised the population into believing that this is a disease that is going to kill you. And mostly, it isn't.

"Eighty per cent of the people who get this infection will never need to go near a hospital. The ones who do go to hospital because they are quite seriously ill, most of them will come out alive – even those who go into intensive care.

"We have completely lost sight of that in the obsession with deaths, the human interest stories about deaths, the international comparisons about death rates, the opportunities for intrepid television journalists to put on lots of PPE and go into high tech where people are acutely ill.

"All of that helps to create this climate of fear, and I am not surprised in a sense that the Government might take a rather cautious approach to try to unlock the lockdown, simply because they would really be nervous that if they pushed it too quickly it would be like giving a party and nobody came."


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...errorised-britons-believing-coronavirus-will/
 
paddyspur said:
Just saw this interesting article from a couple of days ago. Professor Robert Dingwall is based at Nottingham Trent University and sits on the Government's New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), which feeds into its Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE).

Speaking in a personal capacity, he said: "We have this very strong message which has effectively terrorised the population into believing that this is a disease that is going to kill you. And mostly, it isn't.

"Eighty per cent of the people who get this infection will never need to go near a hospital. The ones who do go to hospital because they are quite seriously ill, most of them will come out alive – even those who go into intensive care.

"We have completely lost sight of that in the obsession with deaths, the human interest stories about deaths, the international comparisons about death rates, the opportunities for intrepid television journalists to put on lots of PPE and go into high tech where people are acutely ill.

"All of that helps to create this climate of fear, and I am not surprised in a sense that the Government might take a rather cautious approach to try to unlock the lockdown, simply because they would really be nervous that if they pushed it too quickly it would be like giving a party and nobody came."


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...errorised-britons-believing-coronavirus-will/
Click to expand...

Based on those figures. 210,000 cases at 20 % hospitalization is 42,000. A third die at the moment who go into hospital so that's 14,000. That's enough for a climate of fear, especially with NHS frontline staff dying, the BAME issue and Carehome problem also adding to the fear. I would say its justified.
 
Slight aside OTHER NEWS ......did you see the footage of the police tazering that guy holding his kid in a petrol staion in Manchester ...they had chased him for speeding offences apparently.

Thats so bad that they resorted to tazer him in front of the child....so traumatic for the child to see his dad lying cold on the floor but then about 4 other police cars screamed into view ...FFS have they not got better things to do than to sent 4/5 cars to such an incident yet where I live if I see a cop once in a blue moon I stand and clap it as a rarity...no cops nearest police station 10 miles away! . Have they not got more important things to do like apprehend real villains and criminals and robbers.

The only way I can get a police car to my area is to say we have had a break in and I think I saw a gun!.

On the face of it without knowing all the facts it seems like aggressive excessive stazi type policing
 
Greavswasthegreatest said:
Slight aside OTHER NEWS ......did you see the footage of the police tazering that guy holding his kid in a petrol staion in Manchester ...they had chased him for speeding offences apparently.

Thats so bad that they resorted to tazer him in front of the child....so traumatic for the child to see his dad lying cold on the floor but then about 4 other police cars screamed into view ...FFS have they not got better things to do than to sent 4/5 cars to such an incident yet where I live if I see a cop once in a blue moon I stand and clap it as a rarity...no cops nearest police station 10 miles away! . Have they not got more important things to do like apprehend real villains and criminals and robbers.

The only way I can get a police car to my area is to say we have had a break in and I think I saw a gun!.

On the face of it without knowing all the facts it seems like aggressive excessive stazi type policing
Click to expand...
I guess an equally relevant question is why a father with his child in the car chooses to speed, chooses not to stop when told to do so by the police and finally involves the child in his arrest......perhaps he stole the car with someone else’s child inside....who knows but like so much in the MSM we are just presented with their message rather than giving facts for an objective opinion...

As you said, without knowing all the facts.....
 
Greavswasthegreatest said:
Slight aside OTHER NEWS ......did you see the footage of the police tazering that guy holding his kid in a petrol staion in Manchester ...they had chased him for speeding offences apparently.

Thats so bad that they resorted to tazer him in front of the child....so traumatic for the child to see his dad lying cold on the floor but then about 4 other police cars screamed into view ...FFS have they not got better things to do than to sent 4/5 cars to such an incident yet where I live if I see a cop once in a blue moon I stand and clap it as a rarity...no cops nearest police station 10 miles away! . Have they not got more important things to do like apprehend real villains and criminals and robbers.

The only way I can get a police car to my area is to say we have had a break in and I think I saw a gun!.

On the face of it without knowing all the facts it seems like aggressive excessive stazi type policing
Click to expand...
We have the same problem Greavsie , see a policeman round here and its front page news in the local paper . Somebody is trying to build a lot of houses, 500, on a green belt land area and there have been lots of public meetings about it . When someone brought up the policing question , the police rep said we don’t have policing in our area because there is no crime !
like you , our police station closed years ago, we have THREE police persons , and we were told that if we had any more we would then need a Sargent, and somewhere to sit the poor soul while he was doing nothing . Lord knows where these three coppers go during the day . When the new Royal Navy Aircraft Carrier came into Portsmouth last year , we went down to see it with two grandchildren and there were dozens of police walking around with what looked like machine guns in their arms !
What do these people do on a normal day ? Oh .... we do have two of those plastic coppers who ride around on bikes and ignore the yobs who congregate around the shops in the village .
 
paddyspur said:
Just saw this interesting article from a couple of days ago. Professor Robert Dingwall is based at Nottingham Trent University and sits on the Government's New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), which feeds into its Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE).

Speaking in a personal capacity, he said: "We have this very strong message which has effectively terrorised the population into believing that this is a disease that is going to kill you. And mostly, it isn't.

"Eighty per cent of the people who get this infection will never need to go near a hospital. The ones who do go to hospital because they are quite seriously ill, most of them will come out alive – even those who go into intensive care.

"We have completely lost sight of that in the obsession with deaths, the human interest stories about deaths, the international comparisons about death rates, the opportunities for intrepid television journalists to put on lots of PPE and go into high tech where people are acutely ill.

"All of that helps to create this climate of fear, and I am not surprised in a sense that the Government might take a rather cautious approach to try to unlock the lockdown, simply because they would really be nervous that if they pushed it too quickly it would be like giving a party and nobody came."


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...errorised-britons-believing-coronavirus-will/
Click to expand...
He won’t go very far if he is going to go around spewing common sense comments like that . !
Ive noticed the news reports are still leading with the death rate but have dropped the “underlying” word part of it , now that they can include the care home figures!
 
Harry-Kari said:
I guess an equally relevant question is why a father with his child in the car chooses to speed, chooses not to stop when told to do so by the police and finally involves the child in his arrest......perhaps he stole the car with someone else’s child inside....who knows but like so much in the MSM we are just presented with their message rather than giving facts for an objective opinion...

As you said, without knowing all the facts.....
Click to expand...

He was drunk, speeding, had no insurance, failed to stop, resisted arrest and was breaking lockdown rules as was out with no allowable purpose. There was one more offence as he has been charged with 7 but I will have to check that one.
 
In the full video he can be seen grappling with the police and trying to get to his child. The police wanted him to put his hands behind his back to cuff him which he refused to do even after many requests. Even once tasered on the ground he refused and resisted arrest.
 
Walthamstow wanderer said:
He won’t go very far if he is going to go around spewing common sense comments like that . !
Ive noticed the news reports are still leading with the death rate but have dropped the “underlying” word part of it , now that they can include the care home figures!
Click to expand...
Walt, think you'll like this one, it's doing the rounds in the US, plus his hair is about the same length as yours is now!

 
Walthamstow wanderer said:
He won’t go very far if he is going to go around spewing common sense comments like that . !
Ive noticed the news reports are still leading with the death rate but have dropped the “underlying” word part of it , now that they can include the care home figures!
Click to expand...

I dont think I agree with anything he said.
 
paddyspur said:
Walt, think you'll like this one, it's doing the rounds in the US, plus his hair is about the same length as yours is now!

Click to expand...
Ha ha , my wife cut my hair a fortnight ago Paddy , now she is telling me I’m in need of another trim ! Think she has been on YouTube and fancies herself as barber ! To be fair , she did a half decent job the first time , wouldn’t go out posing up the pub like it though .
thought the video was brilliant (y)
 
Looking at the reporting on the Andrew Marr show it’s just more reinforcement of the propaganda war being waged by the government.

I keep hearing that “now we have flattened the curve”, ‘ now the daily rate of infections is falling’ but the daily figures published by the BBC website are in direct contradiction of both those statements ( they are always lower on Sunday’s due to lack of data arriving)....

I saw an Oxford professor admitting that the calculation on the R number is an estimate based upon several imperfect data inputs while others are asserting that the number of people infected with the Virus is far higher than the recorded data shows....if that is the case how about publishing the estimated ( and observed in a number of real surveys) of the IFR rate because if the infected numbers are so massively greater then lockdown has failed to contain the spread and the number of deaths to infection rates will show that lockdown was never necessary in the first place..

I think if the government is set upon continuing down this rate hole they should have the decency to issue us all with cyanide pills so we can be in charge of our own futures.
 
Harry-Kari said:
Looking at the reporting on the Andrew Marr show it’s just more reinforcement of the propaganda war being waged by the government.

I keep hearing that “now we have flattened the curve”, ‘ now the daily rate of infections is falling’ but the daily figures published by the BBC website are in direct contradiction of both those statements ( they are always lower on Sunday’s due to lack of data arriving)....

I saw an Oxford professor admitting that the calculation on the R number is an estimate based upon several imperfect data inputs while others are asserting that the number of people infected with the Virus is far higher than the recorded data shows....if that is the case how about publishing the estimated ( and observed in a number of real surveys) of the IFR rate because if the infected numbers are so massively greater then lockdown has failed to contain the spread and the number of deaths to infection rates will show that lockdown was never necessary in the first place..

I think if the government is set upon continuing down this rate hole they should have the decency to issue us all with cyanide pills so we can be in charge of our own futures.
Click to expand...

The lockdown has worked but possibly not enough due to it being a relaxed lockdown. The suggestion that the reality is worse than being reported may be true but only to a small degree IMO.
I dont think the govt have handled this virus particularly well. We seem to be late on implementing measures and I suspect that's down to poor preparedness. PPE stocks were not increased despite a 2016 review designed to evaluate how we would cope with such a disease. We didnt have enough respiraters we didnt have testing capacity soon enough, the Carehome sector didnt get enough focus, we allowed Crufts and Cheltenham to go ahead. Even now the lockdown is too relaxed with even govt officials flouting it.
 
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