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moonay said:
Studs, I think you need to consider your choice of whinges a little more carefully ...... to stop you from just looking silly.

I get the lacklustre performances. I get the away form. I get the lack of goals from the forwards and the lack of chances created from midfield. I get them all. I really do.

However, the results last season had us finishing 12 points above the relegation zone.

The results so far this season have us 3 points and 3 places above the relegation zone, with 2 wins and a draw from the last 5 games. That form is bettered by only Cardiff, Derby and Hull outside the top 10.

Who's laughing? Bolton?
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More or less same answer Moonay, when the point a game has gone tits up in a month or so we'll be in shit street, not really anything to write home about being 3 points above relegation 11 games in though is it bro, think where we could be if Cook wasn't so negative.

It would sound much better if you was saying "only 3 points from a play off spot as we go in to the International break" wouldn't it bro?
 
Half empty vs half full.

We'll see what happens. No doubt it'll cause a few more words to be written.
 
moonay said:
Studs, I think you need to consider your choice of whinges a little more carefully ...... to stop you from just looking silly.

I get the lacklustre performances. I get the away form. I get the lack of goals from the forwards and the lack of chances created from midfield. I get them all. I really do.

However, the results last season had us finishing 12 points above the relegation zone.

The results so far this season have us 3 points and 3 places above the relegation zone, with 2 wins and a draw from the last 5 games. That form is bettered by only Cardiff, Derby and Hull outside the top 10.

Who's laughing? Bolton?
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, but I do think there is a credible argument to be made that our results during Cook’s tenure have, at times, been laughable. A finish of 18th and 12 points clear of the relegation zone does sound decent ostensibly, but our eventual position and points tally does not negate the fact that the results were underwhelming to the point of being laughable on occasions last season. From October to March I believe we won just 4 out of 30 odd games, and recorded just one victory away from home in those 6 months. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that these are laughable results.

To give an analogy, let’s say you’re at school and you have 5 tests over the course of the year which count towards a final grade; you may get like 1/10 in the first 4 tests but then go all out for the last one, get 10/10, and eventually drag yourself up to an overall mark that you are satisfied with. But that doesn’t mean that your results in the first 4 tests weren’t laughable (not that you’d laugh at someone for doing badly in an exam, that’d be pathetic, but I just used that purely for analogical purposes).

Even if you look at this season, I think you can still make the argument that our away results have been laughable. We are now into October and have failed to record a single away win, have endured 5 defeats from 6 matches, and gained just 1 point out of a possible 18 on the road.

Perhaps I’m manipulating the statistics a little and I apologise if I’m being pedantic, but I guess the point I’m trying to make is that, I think there’s a valid argument to say that the results, as well as the performances and lack of goals etc, have been laughable at times this season. Hope the analogy makes sense, it was all I could think of to try and show you what I mean!! ?
 
Will, yes, you are....... manipulating stats and being pedantic. ?

Last seasons position is a matter of history, and the form of the last give games is as I outlined.

I'd rather us be doing better, (I'm sure we all would) but the toy chucker was way over the top.

Always two sides Will. Always two sides.
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Why does this debate have to turn to people getting at each other.

Attack the opinions rather than the poster, we can strongly disagree without it getting personal. Folks are entitled to different opinions and neither being very critical or refusing to critasise anything makes you automatically a good or bad fan or better or worse than anyone else.
 
Will_Shahane said:
I understand what you are saying, but I do think there is a credible argument to be made that our results during Cook’s tenure have, at times, been laughable. A finish of 18th and 12 points clear of the relegation zone does sound decent ostensibly, but our eventual position and points tally does not negate the fact that the results were underwhelming to the point of being laughable on occasions last season. From October to March I believe we won just 4 out of 30 odd games, and recorded just one victory away from home in those 6 months. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that these are laughable results.

To give an analogy, let’s say you’re at school and you have 5 tests over the course of the year which count towards a final grade; you may get like 1/10 in the first 4 tests but then go all out for the last one, get 10/10, and eventually drag yourself up to an overall mark that you are satisfied with. But that doesn’t mean that your results in the first 4 tests weren’t laughable (not that you’d laugh at someone for doing badly in an exam, that’d be pathetic, but I just used that purely for analogical purposes).

Even if you look at this season, I think you can still make the argument that our away results have been laughable. We are now into October and have failed to record a single away win, have endured 5 defeats from 6 matches, and gained just 1 point out of a possible 18 on the road.

Perhaps I’m manipulating the statistics a little and I apologise if I’m being pedantic, but I guess the point I’m trying to make is that, I think there’s a valid argument to say that the results, as well as the performances and lack of goals etc, have been laughable at times this season. Hope the analogy makes sense, it was all I could think of to try and show you what I mean!! ?
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Good post Will, fully agree no manipulation of stats - just providing context as often data can paint different pictures without it.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Why does this debate have to turn to people getting at each other.

Attack the opinions rather than the poster, we can strongly disagree without it getting personal. Folks are entitled to different opinions and neither being very critical or refusing to critasise anything makes you automatically a good or bad fan or better or worse than anyone else.
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????????? ? ???

Who's getting at whom?
Who's attacking whom?
Who's commenting on the quality of fans?

Decent, light hearted debate KDZ, that's all.
 
Martinez1986 said:
Cooks averaging 1.58 points per match in his tenure at the club over 2 and a bit years :blah:
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To be fair, it's just his championship record that's under question.

For me, for his first season, he did ok. I'd like him to improve us this season, and we could undoubtedly be doing better, but as I've said elsewhere, a point a game is a fair (not great) start.
 
moonay said:
Last seasons position is a matter of history,
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Yeah, of course. It just seemed though that, in your original post to Studs88, you were using our final position last season to counter Studs' point that the results have been 'laughable'. I consequently just wanted to express my belief that the position we finished in, and the number of points we ended up on last season, doesn't negate the fact that our results were arguably laughable at times during that season. That's the only reason I brought last season up, but correct me if I got something wrong there, or misinterpreted what you were saying.

moonay said:
and the form of the last give games is as I outlined.
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I do agree that our results in the last five games have been decent, but I still think there's a valid argument to be made that our away results this season have been 'laughable'. Therefore, I personally believe that Studs' comment regarding our results being laughable was a reasonable one, if applied in the context of the away results.

moonay said:
I'd rather us be doing better, (I'm sure we all would) but the toy chucker was way over the top.
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I'm not sure about the rest of the post, but for the reasons I've mentioned above, I personally don't believe that Studs was over the top in suggesting that our results are laughable.

moonay said:
Always two sides Will. Always two sides.
?
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Yeah definitely, and obviously that's a good thing because it opens up the opportunity for debate and different interpretations to arise.
 
I still can't see how our finishing position last season was laughable Will. Away, fair enough, but that wasn't Studs's point.

This season, there are five teams currently below us, with another five teams only a win ahead, and none of them nor their fans are laughing.

Oh, and his toys were all over the carpet.
?
 
moonay said:
I still can't see how our finishing position last season was laughable Will.
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Sorry, I may not have explained myself as well as I could have done for that part. I will try to clarify my point here:

I honestly don't think that our finishing position last season was laughable at all. 18th is a perfectly respectable place to end up in, considering that it was Cook's first ever season in the Championship. I was just saying that the position in which we eventually finished doesn't discount the fact that our results were 'laughable' at times last season.

My understanding of what has happened in this discussion so far is as follows: Studs initially claimed that our results are laughable, which led you to use the fact that we had a decent finishing position last season, as a counterargument to this assertion. This prompted me to say that I don't think last season's finishing position (albeit very respectable) diminishes the fact that the results were, at times, laughable last season. Therefore, I don't think the finishing position can be used to negate Studs's initial point about the results being laughable, which is what you seemed to be trying to do. Again, correct me if I'm wrong!!

It's kind of hard to explain, but I hope that makes sense.

moonay said:
Away, fair enough, but that wasn't Studs's point.
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My understanding of Studs's point was that the results are laughable under Cook, and I personally believe that it's a valid comment to make, if used in reference to the away results as opposed to the home ones.

moonay said:
This season, there are five teams currently below us, with another five teams only a win ahead, and none of them nor their fans are laughing.
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Yeah, what you are saying is perfectly valid. I assume that none of those sides have an away record like ours though, and I believe that this is where the 'laughable' comment originated from.
 
Last edited:
Paul Cooks Championship record as it stands

Home P 28 W 14 D 9 L5 F 35 A 24 Pts 51

Away P 29 W 2 D 6 L 21 F 25 A 56 Pts 12

Our overall away record since relegation from the greed league excluding Cooks games

P 69 W 20 D 11 L 38 F 68 A 91 Pts 71 indeed if you take away the one decent season when we got to play offs it's grim reading

P 46 W 11 D8 L 27 F 42 A 66 Pts 41

On another note lots of posters saying Cook is a great guy but has to go same was said last time we let likeable guys go

Roberto you get Coyle

Caldwell you got Joyce

Cookie you'll get ?
 
Will, given that we were in the bottom three only for a short while during the Leeds game, I still don't see how that is in any way laughable.

Maybe I just laugh at different things. ?
 
Barnsley haven't messed about. Sacked their manager this morning.

Flew up from league one, then struggling in Championship. Sounds very familiar.

Meanwhile, we are busy planning a fans forum! Can't make it up, really.
 
Martinez1986 said:
Paul Cooks Championship record as it stands

Home P 28 W 14 D 9 L5 F 35 A 24 Pts 51

Away P 29 W 2 D 6 L 21 F 25 A 56 Pts 12

Our overall away record since relegation from the greed league excluding Cooks games

P 69 W 20 D 11 L 38 F 68 A 91 Pts 71 indeed if you take away the one decent season when we got to play offs it's grim reading

P 46 W 11 D8 L 27 F 42 A 66 Pts 41

On another note lots of posters saying Cook is a great guy but has to go same was said last time we let likeable guys go

Roberto you get Coyle

Caldwell you got Joyce

Cookie you'll get ?
Click to expand...

Got rid of Hutchings you got Bruce

Got rid of Coyle you got Rosler

Got rid of Barrow got Cook

Changing manager can go either way. But how many people except our board were calling for Coyle, Joyce, Malky etc? If you appoint badly in the first place it's not the fact you changed manager that is the problem it's appointing badly.
 
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