The Cost of Ruthlessness | Vital Football

The Cost of Ruthlessness

NWBluesFan

Vital Squad Member
I think it's really interesting to see Kevin Maher being the 2/1 present favourite with Gillingham, as of today.

Why? Because in focussing on who comes next, we can - whether we like it or not - step out our ecosystem and see what other fans, organisations etc think of us. Sometimes, a little outside observation is the best dose of reality anyone can get because there's no (or less!) subjectivity to spoil the evaluation.

Perception, they say, is reality. I hate that phrase as it gets bandied about as a lazy excuse - but I accept it is somewhat true in the fast paced world we now live in.

So what did I see?


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"Yet again"
"Only appointed"


That's quite telling from whomever penned that and, let's be honest, it doesn't take a lyricist to interpret its meaning either.

The consequent a quick glance at a very interesting thread on the Shrimpers board also has some similar sentiments that I think are also worth noting. These were a clip of a few of them. Spot a theme?

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I have been challenged a lot on here the past few days by people who seem to trend in the "something had to be done!" camp. I get the frustration - I'm a fan of this football club for 35 years and will support us no matter what or who is in charge. I will freely admit, I felt Harris was terminated too soon and his relative success now at Millwall, two leagues higher, somewhat backs that point. I mentioned as such at the time, but I accepted it was Brad's call and backed him. For me, what needed to be done was getting the right kind of players into support the coaching staff's approach. As of the weekend, that looked on the cards. SC wanted it. Fans wanted it. I was excited that most of us were on the same page.

For full disclosure at this point, I not only suggested Stephen Clemence in a post a few days before his appointment, I was delighted when it came about. So emotion ran high for me on Tuesday - it was the first time in a while I've felt genuine anger towards our football club.

When I've tried to politely (and somewhat facetiously at times - I apologise, that was bad) articulate that I felt Stephen Clemence's departure wasn't just too soon - it was actually detrimentally so - I've been met with a perhaps predictable barrage from some incumbents of "WeLl tHaTs FoOtBaLl!, MaTe!" (Ok, for fulll disclosure, I do enjoy it a little bit because it's not close to the experience I've found having worked within professional football setting for a number of years, but on a serious level, it is frustrating that it's so quickly dismissed by those who disagree.)

I think the above, though - if we're being level headed - the outsiders perspective - is the issue that while we may WANT to disregard it, has the potential to come home to roost now.

Often, perception is reality and I happen to agree with the majority of those comments from the Shrimpers fans. No, I don't think it would be a dealbreaker for a guy like Kevin Maher if he was offered the job but they are absolutely spot on when they say it will play into his decision making.

We'd be naive to suggest otherwise.

Which brings me to how we may have come to be perceived (whether it is fair or not). It's still a lingering love for many to appear ruthless. Steve Evans often gets praised for his effectiveness but very few seems to cross examine the trail behind him. I've gone on record before of having been told by one ex-professional who played for Evans of an almost universal dislike for his methods which were portrayed as dehumanising. But still, some fans love it. I'm not quite sure why because fundamentally it goes against almost every aspect of known evidence around human development, decision-making, psychological safety etc - the sympathetic nervous system biologically wires us to sense and respond to perceived threat. It's not a choice, it's an instinct!

So be honest with yourself for a second in a moment of introspection. If you had the threat of sacking hovering over you all the time - would it not factor into your psyche? At the very least would it alter your behaviour towards short term survival at the expense of long term improvement? There's evidence to suggest it does. At the risk of going all (N/G!) on you all for a second, it's why I feel our electoral system is flawed, but heck that's another thread around short termism.

There's risk in everything, and don't get me wrong, an element of golden carrot theory can be very effective motivation for everyone but "yet again" and "only appointed" is the sort of charged language which implies we're now being seen as something a bit more than engaged in house cleaning. I can't honestly say I think it's unfair. These are the costs that, while we rejoice in seemingly looking ruthless, that will take their toll. Someone's ability to handle high stakes pressure is not the only consideration of a good manager but at the very least, does it need to so potentially prohibitive? This is the realm of Freud, not football.

Outside of professional sport, my other labour of love has always been learning and psychology. I count myself very privileged to work with professional athletes but as I've said on here before, the vast majority who talk with me are built no different from you and I when it comes to mental make up, aside of their drive and competitive talent. Most do NOT thrive under the level of scrutiny they face in minutiae - or at least admit that - and I cannot tell you enough how many do hear, in my experience, the ruthless comments about them. If you don't believe me, go look up how many calls have been made to the PFA helplines in the past 2 years. It'll stagger you.

My long and rambling point here is that ultimately we ALL want a football team that is successful.

From fans, to players to the board of directors. And while it's tempting to bang the drums of 'do it now' to the rhythm of 'really, THAT's FOOTBALL MATE', we should be able to recognise that expectation is just one element of a successful sporting organisation. Should it be the biggest priority?

If we get known for being "ruthless", it will come at a potential cost and ironically the casualties of that strategy may well be hidden from view, but they will be there. It may also, very humbly, attract the wrong kind of character into our football club in their approach with our players. At the very minimum, some balance ought surely to be needed for everyone's sake.

Perception is, after all, reality. Get this one wrong, and it might just be justified too.

I'll finish by saying, if you read all this, bravo. My ramblings were cathartic by intent. And for the record, no matter who comes in, I'll wear my shirt with pride, go to as many away games as I can justify to my wife and family, and clap the boys off every time, win draw or Barrow.

Come on you Gills. Have a good one!

TL:DR ? "It's potentially more than just football, mate!
 
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For what it’s worth, given the choice, I’d rather that Neil Harris was still our manager and we still had three more games to play.
Clemence was an experiment which didn’t pay off.
As players say, we move on.
 
Very interesting view.

I hope you are not suggesting that your opinion that Clemence should have been given longer is not respected by others expressing the opposite view. I am sorry if that is the case. Everyone is entitled to give their opinion in peace.

Everyone here knows that I have been a defender of Harris and got slated for it (I don't mind) but that is qualified by the facts that:

1. I no longer attend home games live due to moving away and other commitments and maybe I did not get the full picture on the radio or iFollow. I am also probably not demanding enough about exciting football, and
2. BG has come in and saved the club and he obviously wants to request high standards. Personally, I don't know any other club (American owners or not) appointing a coach or manager in October who would have no minimum demands for THAT season as well as the long term. Graham Alexander lasted 142 days at MK Dons, for instance. Is that ruthless? Depends on what targets were agreed, I suppose.

Unfortunately, Evans is our most long standing manager of recent times as he lasted two and half years and Harris lasted a little over 18 months. That averages two years and I think the overall average in the league is about a season and a half.

Of course, if we had a manager performing miracles and there were rumours that he was likely to poached, we would be slagging off the bigger club. Well, you would, wouldn't you?
 
Unfortunately, Evans is our most long standing manager of recent times as he lasted two and half years and Harris lasted a little over 18 months. That averages two years and I think the overall average in the league is about a season and a half.

This is the thing about NWBF’s original point that I don’t agree with.

Yes, perception may be everything (I don’t agree) but it’s not the true case is it? We have simply sacked one manager early, Stephen Clemence. Neil was here for 18 months of ups n downs and our managers generally last longer.

I think in the football world, every manager, coach and player knows that their tenure will be very brief if they don’t produce the goods. Any manager that thinks if he doesn’t do a good job he will get sacked quickly, is probably right for 90% of clubs and probably not confident in his own abilities.

Not wanting to state the phrase that you don’t like NWBF, but that actually iS fOoTbAlL MaTe. It’s not perception, it’s reality. The average tenure of football managers across all leagues in every country is between 1 and 2 years. We generally far exceed that average. If sacking 1 manager quickly changes that perception for opposition fans, there’s nowt we can do about it, or even should do about it.
 
And Harris wasn't exactly sacked. Didn't they ask him to sack his assistant but Harris quit instead? I thought I read this somewhere.
 
And Harris wasn't exactly sacked. Didn't they ask him to sack his assistant but Harris quit instead? I thought I read this somewhere.
That was part of the conjecture but never confirmed. Having already got rid of his own recruitment guy (seemed a good decision at the time but not so sure now, knowing how small the budget was then), it would have left him isolated with none of his own chosen staff, so it is possible.

Why wouldn't BG have just sacked Livermore himself? That could have forced NH's resignation and saved us a further pay off.

It was definitely reported that he was sacked and didn't quit, though.
 
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I do think some of the criticism from other fans like 'yet again' is harsh if we have indeed been slightly above average with keeping managers on prior to the takeover (which I don't know for a fact but feels right).

However I don't find Harris' full 18-month tenure to be entirely relevant given that the Galinsons only bought the club halfway through that. The more relevant fact to me is that under their leadership our two head coaches have lasted 9 months and 6 months. While that's not yet enough to say whether or not this is the new reality for the club, it's all we have to go on so far and I can't really blame anyone for believing they can spot a pattern emerging.

I do find "that's just football" to be a little tedious because not only is it not universally true but it doesn't have to be. An average managerial tenure isn't like a script to be followed. For every Watford up and down the leagues there's an Arsenal or a Doncaster who have kept faith and stuck with their manager, in some cases having learned from their mistakes in potentially pulling the trigger too early previously.

And I completely agree it's mad to think it wouldn't influence someone's decision whether to join a club once it has a record of being trigger-happy. Good post with some interesting points.
 
I do think some of the criticism from other fans like 'yet again' is harsh if we have indeed been slightly above average with keeping managers on prior to the takeover (which I don't know for a fact but feels right).

However I don't find Harris' full 18-month tenure to be entirely relevant given that the Galinsons only bought the club halfway through that. The more relevant fact to me is that under their leadership our two head coaches have lasted 9 months and 6 months. While that's not yet enough to say whether or not this is the new reality for the club, it's all we have to go on so far and I can't really blame anyone for believing they can spot a pattern emerging.

I do find "that's just football" to be a little tedious because not only is it not universally true but it doesn't have to be. An average managerial tenure isn't like a script to be followed. For every Watford up and down the leagues there's an Arsenal or a Doncaster who have kept faith and stuck with their manager, in some cases having learned from their mistakes in potentially pulling the trigger too early previously.

And I completely agree it's mad to think it wouldn't influence someone's decision whether to join a club once it has a record of being trigger-happy. Good post with some interesting points.

The great thing about getting sacked is that football managers get a pay off.

I don't think managers are bothered by a trigger happy board.
 
The great thing about getting sacked is that football managers get a pay off.

I don't think managers are bothered by a trigger happy board.

Maybe for those that have been around the block a few times but for a manager/head coach in their early career an early sacking can be damaging to their future prospects.

I bet Clemence is wishing he hadn’t come here for his first job.
 
The great thing about getting sacked is that football managers get a pay off.

I don't think managers are bothered by a trigger happy board.
It may not always be a dealbreaker on the financial side but in addition to Nibbles' point I don't think a lot of even experienced managers will want to accumulate too many quick sackings on their record. It affects their win percentage, league positions and other stats that they're going to be judged on for future opportunities every time they're let go before they feel they've had the chance to improve the team.

It's just one factor as the first post said. But if someone has two roughly equivalent offers they're probably going to choose the club that's more likely to give them the time they need.

In fact that raises another cost of ruthlessness. Clubs like Watford can afford to keep paying off managers without it eating into their budget. Not so sure we can say the same.
 
Maybe for those that have been around the block a few times but for a manager/head coach in their early career an early sacking can be damaging to their future prospects.

I bet Clemence is wishing he hadn’t come here for his first job.
Being brutally honest he really shouldn't have been hired.

And from his perspective he should have waited for a club who didn't have such high aspirations immediately. Everyone knew we were demanding promotion, at least play-offs.
 
Being brutally honest he really shouldn't have been hired.

And from his perspective he should have waited for a club who didn't have such high aspirations immediately. Everyone knew we were demanding promotion, at least play-offs.
That’s true, but Brad said today how difficult it is to hire a manager midseason, suggesting perhaps clemence was never first choice for the role.
I think that difficult process last time has counted against Clemence now as they feared they’d have to go through it again a few months into next season.
 
Being brutally honest he really shouldn't have been hired.

Same for every manager that failed to achieve their objective and every player that turned out a disappointing signing, every losing bet, etc, etc.

It’s a very simple and easy conclusion to come to. Hindsight’s a wonderful thing.
 
Same for every manager that failed to achieve their objective and every player that turned out a disappointing signing, every losing bet, etc, etc.

It’s a very simple and easy conclusion to come to. Hindsight’s a wonderful thing.
That's not what I meant.

He literally had zero managerial experience.

I only heard him speak a few times and he wasn't a motivator.
 
The Cost of Ruthlessness

The calm of normally quiet off season weekend at a provincial football club is shattered when…
 
The great thing about getting sacked is that football managers get a pay off.

I don't think managers are bothered by a trigger happy board.
I think most are. They work ridiculously long hours, often away from their families, and under constant scrutiny, putting their reputations on the line - they do it because they're competitive and want to win, not because it's an easy way to make a living. And as others have said, a sacking can be terminal for a manager's career: many are one and done.

There are rumours of large-scale redundancies at my company. The severance package will probably be quite favourable but most people are very keen to avoid it. They've often put their hearts and souls into their work, from professional pride or trying to get ahead. Why would a football manager be any different? They are human just like the rest of us.