Clemence Set Up To Fail

[BlueToTheGills]

We built a squad in the summer with a manager that was very much safety first. A team more likely to grind out a win then play fancy football.

Brad decides the football isn't what he and many of us want to watch and Harris gets the chop. He appoints a manager stating he wants "We wanted to make sure that naturally, the person we appoint is above all brave, courageous, takes risks, front-footed, expansive, entertains and wins at the same time."

That squad wasn't built for that type of football and still isn't so was always going to take several transfer windows. Clemence got one and I think three of the four signings looked a step forward. Whilst Walker struggled Hutton has certainly delived more balls into the box and Andrews looks like he could be an exciting player next season. He got injured in the B game and was therefore out for a lot longer whilst Hurtado looked like he could set the league alight at least in brief spells.

At the last Fans forum Kenny Jackett still suggested it was possible for us to go on a run and make the top 3 putting more pressure on the manager. I think a more experienced manager would have said this team isn't built for front-footed, expansive entertaining football. What's the priority getting promoted or trying to change the style of football because that will take was always likely to need several transfer windows? In fact I would suggest our DOF should already have said that to Brad.

Look at Doncaster with Grant McCann, he had the summer to get recruitment right and obviously it wasn't quite right, a few changes in January and they went from near bottom to the playoffs. How long would he have lasted here?

I did have concerns Clemence would get shown the door in October with us struggling again to do anything more then look particuarly average but I was encouraged by the signing of Andrews and to a lesser degress Hutton and I thought a few more signings of that calibre in the right positions could make a big difference.

I just hope we get the appointment right this time. Is the new man going to get much chance to bring in his players or will Hess and Kenny have built his squad for him? Even if we get a new manager in quickly how is he going to assess his squad now the season is over. Watch DVD's of how players played under instructions of previous mangers or go on reputation alone? Would suggest that we might be a bit slow in Summer transfer market unless we bring in a local experienced league 2 manager.

 

[NWBluesFan]

If I’m worth my salt as a manager I wouldn’t give Gillingham a second look after this. Why?

Too much power in KJ’s hands. Whoever comes in will be castrated by his control and permanently looking over their shoulder. 6 months isn’t decisive - it’s an admission they have no idea how to implement long term change.

Brad, you’ve sacked the wrong guy.

 

[Jerryattrick]

If I’m worth my salt as a manager I wouldn’t give Gillingham a second look after this. Why?

Too much power in KJ’s hands. Whoever comes in will be castrated by his control and permanently looking over their shoulder. 6 months isn’t decisive - it’s an admission they have no idea how to implement long term change.

Brad, you’ve sacked the wrong guy.

Time will tell.

 

[NWBluesFan]

Time will tell.

2 sackings of his ‘subordinates’ in 6 months.
2 failed transfer windows for strikers.
Speaks volumes to his ineptitude as DOF.
His head should be next if Brad has any metal.

 

[nibbles]

If I’m worth my salt as a manager I wouldn’t give Gillingham a second look after this. Why?

Too much power in KJ’s hands. Whoever comes in will be castrated by his control and permanently looking over their shoulder. 6 months isn’t decisive - it’s an admission they have no idea how to implement long term change.

Brad, you’ve sacked the wrong guy.

Get what you’re saying but wouldn’t stop me speaking with the club.

That would be a key part of any discussions though.

 

[GillsBluenose]

Is it seriously impossible to implement short term improvement on the road to long term change?

Taking the team to 12th from 8th and falling an extra 21 points below the automatic spots suggests not.

It really depends on what BG said to SC when he decided to appoint him. As far as I understand, SC was the proactive one, putting together some form of presentation that BG (jokingly) said was so impressive that he thought how could they not give him the job? Was that just saying that he would get us promotion in TWO seasons time?

SC also claimed to have been watching our games for some time, so he knew what he was taking on.

And 8th In league Two is certainly a more comfortable position than being appointed when we were 10 points adrift of safety in League One, or 5 points adrift of safety in League Two, when the job did, or may have, become available before.

If SC did not live up to what he presented, he possibly set himself up to fail.

 

[OneSirKeefy]

We built a squad in the summer with a manager that was very much safety first. A team more likely to grind out a win then play fancy football.

Brad decides the football isn't what he and many of us want to watch and Harris gets the chop. He appoints a manager stating he wants "We wanted to make sure that naturally, the person we appoint is above all brave, courageous, takes risks, front-footed, expansive, entertains and wins at the same time."

That squad wasn't built for that type of football and still isn't so was always going to take several transfer windows. Clemence got one and I think three of the four signings looked a step forward. Whilst Walker struggled Hutton has certainly delived more balls into the box and Andrews looks like he could be an exciting player next season. He got injured in the B game and was therefore out for a lot longer whilst Hurtado looked like he could set the league alight at least in brief spells.

At the last Fans forum Kenny Jackett still suggested it was possible for us to go on a run and make the top 3 putting more pressure on the manager. I think a more experienced manager would have said this team isn't built for front-footed, expansive entertaining football. What's the priority getting promoted or trying to change the style of football because that will take was always likely to need several transfer windows? In fact I would suggest our DOF should already have said that to Brad.

Look at Doncaster with Grant McCann, he had the summer to get recruitment right and obviously it wasn't quite right, a few changes in January and they went from near bottom to the playoffs. How long would he have lasted here?

I did have concerns Clemence would get shown the door in October with us struggling again to do anything more then look particuarly average but I was encouraged by the signing of Andrews and to a lesser degress Hutton and I thought a few more signings of that calibre in the right positions could make a big difference.

I just hope we get the appointment right this time. Is the new man going to get much chance to bring in his players or will Hess and Kenny have built his squad for him? Even if we get a new manager in quickly how is he going to assess his squad now the season is over. Watch DVD's of how players played under instructions of previous mangers or go on reputation alone? Would suggest that we might be a bit slow in Summer transfer market unless we bring in a local experienced league 2 manager.

Thing is, Brad said (something along the lines of) Stephen blew them away with his detailed presentation of our current squad, what it lacked, how he could and would improve it etc etc.

I’m sure Stephen was hoping he’d get a lot longer, and the chance with his own players. But it sounds like he was initially hired because he said he could improve the current lot. Stark reality is, he didn’t.

I had hoped he’d be given next season with “his” squad, but not to be and I’m hoping the next manager can get Gills fans finally united with some exciting and winning football after being completely divided over PS, SE, NH and SC.

Edit - GBn beat me to it about Clemence presentation on how he would improve us.

 

[shotshy]

Nobody on here was in the room when Clem was employed.
Nobody knows what either side said.
It’s possible/probable that Clem over promised to land his first head coach role.
Brad told him very clearly the expectation and Clem committed to that.
We all knew Brad’s expectations because he’d told us all.
Minimum playoffs.
We finished some way below that so I personally have no issue with his decision.
I feel sorry for Clemence and his assistants but football is brutal. They know that when they start.

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

Personally, I think SC may have been a little naief and too trusting when he gave his presentation of the squad and how he would address the areas he considered weak. He felt fairly certain his position was secure (BG had said as much) and hoped that by giving a clear idea of what was needed that a) BG was going to back him fully financially and b) that he was going to get the fans onboard with his ideas, Unfortunately BG apparently changed his mind (whether for personal or financial reasons) and decided it was time for him to go.

I think most of us were surprised with what happened however we (I) forgot that in the financial world, most people have a latent sociopath hiding away inside them. Apparently the one in BG was able to escape and mercilessly put the boot in.

I do feel for SC, really, but I care more for the club I have supported since I was in junior school and if BG - who is financing the whole shabang - feels the need to put a new face in place then who am I to object. One thing I will say, it was a wake up call and my trust in him has diminished....not greatly but more than I would have wanted/expected.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

Nobody on here was in the room when Clem was employed.
Nobody knows what either side said.
It’s possible/probable that Clem over promised to land his first head coach role.
Brad told him very clearly the expectation and Clem committed to that.
We all knew Brad’s expectations because he’d told us all.
Minimum playoffs.
We finished some way below that so I personally have no issue with his decision.
I feel sorry for Clemence and his assistants but football is brutal. They know that when they start.

True, but it does make for plenty of fan speculation and fortunately, we have this space to keep us occupied through the off-season. So, what`s really been going on in the clubs corridors of power ? One thing for sure, things have changed. Over the years, we`ve been used to a GFC set-up that was fundamentally autocratic. We got used to it, there was little doubt as to who was the pulling the strings and where the Club`s philosophy was sat.

But, that all changed last January. The culture at GFC has had a substantial make-over. We`ve ambitious owners who, with all due respect to them, probably had very little knowledge about the EFL scene. And therein lies the enigmatic root; who was and/or is, actually guiding whom at GFC and how solid is the structure?

Oh to have been a fly-on-the-wall of the GFC boardroom over the last 15 months ! Clearly the Gallinson`s have had to trust guidance of those with a more established comprehension of the EFL. Has that process led to a mini-power struggle for Brad`s ear ? Has there been a clash between "traditional" methodology and "progressive", ultra-analytics driven, methodology ?

Do we need to know ? No, our owners don`t need to explain the inner working to fans, I believe we all accept that. But it doesn`t stop us from being interested, especially in the light of significant personnel changes.

More questions than answers, it seems. Another one : What really drove the Gallinsons to overtly re-structure GFC as a Company ? Who, truly, has the ear of the Gallinsons ? Does anyone have their ear ?

Don`t get me wrong, I`m delighted that we have new owners and that we appear to be a club on the up. Like pretty much everyone on here, I will support GFC 100% , win or lose, it`s in the blood.

As fans, one of the few things that we can make an informed judgement on is Recruitment. Because, on the evidence of watching 46+ games, it`s more than apparent that this area of the business has failed. The Club has admitted to this as a problem issue.

But, without knowing the answers to the enigma of exactly who is counselling whom, we can only speculate, with caveats.

Note to self - Enough, already... Having re-read this load of tosh, i`m still going to post-it - sorry. PS: bottom line, I blame the groundsman.

 

[Therealwaldo]

I’ll get screamed down of course but this episode is an interesting reality check.The previous reality was that we had an owner that managed, one way or another to keep the club afloat, keep us out of non league, and give us an occasional shot at better things. He upset a vociferous minority along the way and ran out of luck with Covid and Evans’ last transfer window that left us in the shit. Fair play to the Galinsons. They got us out of the shit but are we going to enjoy the relative stability we had previously ? Scally wasn’t a serial hirer and firer. We may now have got one. Is that good for the club ? Will it actually cause more long term instability for the club ? Only time will tell.

 

[jokerman]

I think Yousaf’s problem was that he inherited a demoralized team after years of stagnation, had little familiarity with the local and sometimes toxic culture, and always had greasy eminences suspected of trying to pull the strings in the background. It didn’t help that his priorities seemed detached from what the rank and file were saying they wanted and had been told they were getting, and that it was never clear to what extent he was actually in charge.

 

[markinkent]

I think we are over thinking this. Had we got top 7 and lost in the playoffs then Clemence would have met target and still been here.

We barely made top half. We barely improved on goal scoring (second lowest) and got a thumping at Harrogate.

Its a results business and he didnt deliver.

If he was successful then a bigger club would poach him.Theres little loyalty in football from both sides.

If the new boss is successful then we'll soon forget about Clemence. Its harsh but its how it is

Next boss should be proven at league 2. Nk guarantee of success but experiencd of how to be successful at this level helps

 

[The Surveyor]

I think we are over thinking this. Had we got top 7 and lost in the playoffs then Clemence would have met target and still been here.

We barely made top half. We barely improved on goal scoring (second lowest) and got a thumping at Harrogate.

Its a results business and he didnt deliver.

If he was successful then a bigger club would poach him.Theres little loyalty in football from both sides.

If the new boss is successful then we'll soon forget about Clemence. Its harsh but its how it is

Next boss should be proven at league 2. Nk guarantee of success but experiencd of how to be successful at this level helps

Spot on. Exactly this. No exhaustive deep dive analysis is necessary. The reasons for his sacking are obvious.

 

[PhilK66]

I think we are over thinking this. Had we got top 7 and lost in the playoffs then Clemence would have met target and still been here.

We barely made top half. We barely improved on goal scoring (second lowest) and got a thumping at Harrogate.

Its a results business and he didnt deliver.

If he was successful then a bigger club would poach him.Theres little loyalty in football from both sides.

If the new boss is successful then we'll soon forget about Clemence. Its harsh but its how it is

Next boss should be proven at league 2. Nk guarantee of success but experiencd of how to be successful at this level helps

As I've said elsewhere I think Clemence's problem is complete inexperience of coaching lower level players.

 

[HerrLjunga]

Clemence came in (as second, maybe even third choice) having demonstrated at interview how he would improve the existing side. What significant improvements were made that can be evidenced?

We just had to show a modicum of improvement following Harris' sacking to get into the play-offs, especially as every other side bar Donny seemed desperate to miss out. What we ended with was pretty much relegation form of one point per game for the last ten games.

No big shadowy mystery that he's gone on that basis.

 

[shotshy]

Clemence came in (as second, maybe even third choice) having demonstrated at interview how he would improve the existing side. What significant improvements were made that can be evidenced?

We just had to show a modicum of improvement following Harris' sacking to get into the play-offs, especially as every other side bar Donny seemed desperate to miss out. What we ended with was pretty much relegation form of one point per game for the last ten games.

No big shadowy mystery that he's gone on that basis.

Chuck into the mix that Harris was originally charged with keeping Cambridge in the division and they did and then the same at Millwall and they did.
Experience and nous counts for a lot in football.
A ground out three points is still three points.

 

[Captainreblue]

I think we are over thinking this. Had we got top 7 and lost in the playoffs then Clemence would have met target and still been here.

We barely made top half. We barely improved on goal scoring (second lowest) and got a thumping at Harrogate.

Its a results business and he didnt deliver.

If he was successful then a bigger club would poach him.Theres little loyalty in football from both sides.

If the new boss is successful then we'll soon forget about Clemence. Its harsh but its how it is

Next boss should be proven at league 2. Nk guarantee of success but experiencd of how to be successful at this level helps

Get all that, but have the players not failed too. The recruitment team certainly have. Seems strange the the least culpable of the 3 is the one out the door. We seem to be expecting different results by changing the manager again when that didnt work when we got rid of NH and if we keep the majority.of this squad i doubt it will change with A.N. Other in charge. IMO who was in charge was at the bottom of the problem list. Guess that's football.

Not sure I like where we seem to be heading as a club with football decisions. Let's 'hope' (as that's what we're going on now in our appointments) that they get the next one right. Third time lucky.

 

[HerrLjunga]

Get all that, but have the players not failed too. The recruitment team certainly have. Seems strange the the least culpable of the 3 is the one out the door. We seem to be expecting different results by changing the manager again when that didnt work when we got rid of NH and if we keep the majority.of this squad i doubt it will change with A.N. Other in charge. Guess that's football.

Not sure I like where we seem to be heading as a club with football decisions. Let's 'hope' (as that's what we're going on now in our appointments) that the next one right. Third time lucky.

It's easier to sack an underperforming manager than get shot of a dozen or so players all on contract. The players are probably even more culpable than Clem or Harris for this season, but they're not as easy to move on.

 

[shotshy]

Get all that, but have the players not failed too. The recruitment team certainly have. Seems strange the the least culpable of the 3 is the one out the door. We seem to be expecting different results by changing the manager again when that didnt work when we got rid of NH and if we keep the majority.of this squad i doubt it will change with A.N. Other in charge. IMO who was in charge was at the bottom of the problem list. Guess that's football.

Not sure I like where we seem to be heading as a club with football decisions. Let's 'hope' (as that's what we're going on now in our appointments) that they get the next one right. Third time lucky.

There is not a football manager in the country at lower league level who has ‘his own players’ to work with.
SC was employed very specifically as first team coach to improve the players who were at the club.
Unfortunately for him, he failed at that task and also failed to achieve his targets.
It’s personally sad for him but the right decision for the club, in my opinion.
If the next guy is given the same target and also fails, we can expect the same result.
If we employ a new manager and Brad says just do your best, then that’s different.