Here we go!

[weejockmcplop]

Labour will not deport a single asylum seeker to Rwanda, Yvette Cooper confirms

Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper reiterated Labour’s promise to scrap the scheme if it wins the next election

www.independent.co.uk

See.
I told you Labour and the tories are exactly the same now....

 

[in_the_top_one]

You're right.
I'm *this* close to having a rant about smartphones if you lot are going to continue to make that argument though.
Just get a Nokia, the apps are not required.

I find it a bit irritating that certain lobbies are very anti lithium mining and say it kills the case for electric vehicles but they have never seemed to mind about other forms of mining. Including bitcoins.
Or fishing.
Or animal farming.
Etc
etc

 

[Feco]

What do you suggest that is feasible and effective on the timescale that we need?

This?
View attachment 72853


More likely:
View attachment 72854

I think I’ve done my thoughts on what needs to be done to death.
There is no ‘quick’ fix, there needs to be a re-adjustment on how people live…..good luck on that one. Currently how the vast majority of humans live is not sustainable. The question is how do you persuade the world’s population to change direction and start to preserve what we have (not just for humans)?
Electric cars, Heat Pumps etc are not the answer because somewhere down the line fossil fuel is still involved.
As much as this is going to be technology driven, there also needs social change which I feel is far more complicated to deal with.

I note this morning the headlines are not shouting out the fact that coal is producing more power than the UK’ combined wind turbines, but I guess that would be an uncomfortable truth for all those plugging in.

 

[Feco]

I find it a bit irritating that certain lobbies are very anti lithium mining and say it kills the case for electric vehicles but they have never seemed to mind about other forms of mining. Including bitcoins.
Or fishing.
Or animal farming.
Etc
etc

Lithium can be recovered quite cleanly, it’s happening in Cornwall from the old mine water….

 

[radfordinlondon]

I think I’ve done my thoughts on what needs to be done to death.
There is no ‘quick’ fix, there needs to be a re-adjustment on how people live…..good luck on that one. Currently how the vast majority of humans live is not sustainable. The question is how do you persuade the world’s population to change direction and start to preserve what we have (not just for humans)?
Electric cars, Heat Pumps etc are not the answer because somewhere down the line fossil fuel is still involved.
As much as this is going to be technology driven, there also needs social change which I feel is far more complicated to deal with.

I note this morning the headlines are not shouting out the fact that coal is producing more power than the UK’ combined wind turbines, but I guess that would be an uncomfortable truth for all those plugging in.

sadly I agree. it's the social change bit we can't and won't manage.

as I said, too many vested interests. If you think that is bad news- even if you took away the vested interests, it would still leave us with an unprecedented task and something that has never been achieved in human history; cooperation at scale.

dare I say it but this will be perhaps the apex of human endeavour. failure will mean another reset (providing we don't entirely collapse the biosphere).

happy Friday people

 

[in_the_top_one]

I think I’ve done my thoughts on what needs to be done to death.
There is no ‘quick’ fix, there needs to be a re-adjustment on how people live…..good luck on that one. Currently how the vast majority of humans live is not sustainable. The question is how do you persuade the world’s population to change direction and start to preserve what we have (not just for humans)?
Electric cars, Heat Pumps etc are not the answer because somewhere down the line fossil fuel is still involved.
As much as this is going to be technology driven, there also needs social change which I feel is far more complicated to deal with.

I note this morning the headlines are not shouting out the fact that coal is producing more power than the UK’ combined wind turbines, but I guess that would be an uncomfortable truth for all those plugging in.

Really? That might have been true for a brief moment when you looked at some point this morning, but over the 24 hours that wasn't the case. Wind was producing nearly 8 times more than coal. In the past year it has generated 30 times more than coal, roughly the same as gas at 30% of our total generation.



I think we largely agree, on the whole - certainly that there is not a quick fix - but the argument that we are still dependent on fossil fuels is often taken further (by others) to show that renewables are pointless.

The more optimistic view is that fossil fuels (coal and gas together) were only 40% of our usage in the last 24 hours. and only 27% of our usage over the last week. The weather has been fairly poor and it is still only April.

That is progress, and I feel better about charging up if the amount of fossil fuel in the mix is already less than half the total and continuously reducing. My last car ran 100% on fossil fuels.

 

[Feco]

Really? That might have been true for a brief moment when you looked at some point this morning, but over the 24 hours that wasn't the case. Wind was producing nearly 8 times more than coal. In the past year it has generated 30 times more than coal, roughly the same as gas at 30% of our total generation.

View attachment 72856

I think we largely agree, on the whole - certainly that there is not a quick fix - but the argument that we are still dependent on fossil fuels is often taken further (by others) to show that renewables are pointless.

The more optimistic view is that fossil fuels (coal and gas together) were only 40% of our usage in the last 24 hours. and only 27% of our usage over the last week. The weather has been fairly poor and it is still only April.

That is progress, and I feel better about charging up if the amount of fossil fuel in the mix is already less than half the total and continuously reducing. My last car ran 100% on fossil fuels.

Wind has certainly produced more than coal in the last year, it should do there is 28GW installed against 1.5GW of coal.
The issue is we have to keep firing up Ratcliffe because the wind is either unreliable (today) or unusable (not enough high inertia generators available) to support wind/solar generation.

Agree there is progress but nothing like a solution…lip service really, the whole network needs replacing, which is a Government level infrastructure project. So it’s screwed!!
The current system was never designed to run with intermittent generators like wind turbines and solar, it only does because there is a big old heavy spinning thing propping it up somewhere.

I’m sure there will be much rejoicing in September when coal finally disappears off of the grid for good. Hope those interconnectors hold up.

 

[in_the_top_one]

Wind has certainly produced more than coal in the last year, it should do there is 28GW installed against 1.5GW of coal.
The issue is we have to keep firing up Ratcliffe because the wind is either unreliable (today) or unusable (not enough high inertia generators available) to support wind/solar generation.

Agree there is progress but nothing like a solution…lip service really, the whole network needs replacing, which is a Government level infrastructure project. So it’s screwed!!
The current system was never designed to run with intermittent generators like wind turbines and solar, it only does because there is a big old heavy spinning thing propping it up somewhere.

I’m sure there will be much rejoicing in September when coal finally disappears off of the grid for good. Hope those interconnectors hold up.

With respect, so what if we have to fire up Ratcliffe sometimes? As I've said before, if we only used fossil fuel generators for the rare occasions when we have neither wind, nor solar, the world would be in a pretty good place, carbon-wise.

I really don't think you can describe nearly 40% of our annual generation coming from renewables is lip service? We're doing pretty well from wind turbines and solar. In the uk we have reduced fossil fuels to just 33% and that number is reducing all the time.

 

[Feco]

With respect, so what if we have to fire up Ratcliffe sometimes? As I've said before, if we only used fossil fuel generators for the rare occasions when we have neither wind, nor solar, the world would be in a pretty good place, carbon-wise.

I really don't think you can describe nearly 40% of our annual generation coming from renewables is lip service? We're doing pretty well from wind turbines and solar. In the uk we have reduced fossil fuels to just 33% and that number is reducing all the time.

You won’t be firing Ratcliff up after September, so all will be good?

Transitioning to renewables is the way to go, but sticking up wind turbines or planting more solar farms is not what is needed now.
There is more than enough to meet demand, certainly for 90% of the time.

It’s the 10% of the time that is the issue. Investment in the grid to make it smart is desperately needed, but that is significantly more expensive and difficult to do. Profits or progress?

And that’s why I say it’s lip service. The headline numbers look good, the underlying situation not so, but nobody explains this.

Only 40% of generation by renewables is really at the shallow end of where we should be now.

 

[paz1967]

Bloody hell.....the ones remaining will be paying whatever tax they were going to pay. The ones that are leaving wont be....irrespective of whether the ones are staying might be paying more (not confirmed) the ones who left will be paying zilch, zip, nada, zero, nowt

so if its about taxing workers a few million immigants would offset that easily right?

 

[paz1967]

You won’t be firing Ratcliff up after September, so all will be good?

Transitioning to renewables is the way to go, but sticking up wind turbines or planting more solar farms is not what is needed now.
There is more than enough to meet demand, certainly for 90% of the time.

It’s the 10% of the time that is the issue. Investment in the grid to make it smart is desperately needed, but that is significantly more expensive and difficult to do. Profits or progress?

And that’s why I say it’s lip service. The headline numbers look good, the underlying situation not so, but nobody explains this.

Only 40% of generation by renewables is really at the shallow end of where we should be now.

smart charging tho eh? you know thats gonna mean trickle charge only for 20 hours a day if tories are running things

 

[paz1967]

Not really. I think genuinely they are over exaggerated alarmist souls. The climate has changed for millions of year . Nobody is saying we shouldn’t do anything just in case

I’ve done my civic duty. Have an electric car. They are very good

evs are ok if do high mileage in one for years, if not then they're kinda terrible. im still not sure where the 30 odd million ice engines are going to go tho, a landfill near you~?

 

[paz1967]

I find it a bit irritating that certain lobbies are very anti lithium mining and say it kills the case for electric vehicles but they have never seemed to mind about other forms of mining. Including bitcoins.
Or fishing.
Or animal farming.
Etc
etc

they never seemed to have minded? i imgine if theyre kindred spirits they mind very much.

Irrespective, lithium mining IS terribly destructive and creating batteries is very energy intensive too.

If you buy an EV today then in the very immediate future you made the problem worse because you basically went into a big carbon debt.
If we had a billion overnight then quite clearly that would be a massive carbon hole we add to what is already a precarious position and may well be enough to go over the tipping point,. i mean thats just obvious right?

 

[Feco]

smart charging tho eh? you know thats gonna mean trickle charge only for 20 hours a day if tories are running things

I know the grid renewal is not going to happen!!

 

[radfordinlondon]

‘Crisis time’: The London Stock Exchange's £100 billion exodus

There could be even bigger seismic shocks ahead with firms like Shell considering leaving the London Stock Exchange

www.standard.co.uk

well Well well, more brexit chickens coming home to roost.

how much do we have to lose before 52% of us have to swallow some pride and accept they were wrong?

 

[radfordinlondon]

You won’t be firing Ratcliff up after September, so all will be good?

Transitioning to renewables is the way to go, but sticking up wind turbines or planting more solar farms is not what is needed now.
There is more than enough to meet demand, certainly for 90% of the time.

It’s the 10% of the time that is the issue. Investment in the grid to make it smart is desperately needed, but that is significantly more expensive and difficult to do. Profits or progress?

And that’s why I say it’s lip service. The headline numbers look good, the underlying situation not so, but nobody explains this.

Only 40% of generation by renewables is really at the shallow end of where we should be now.

obviously I have no idea on all of this and take this at face value. what I can say is the situation you describe is depressingly familiar in many other areas of the public sector. confectionary headlines with a rather less rosey underlying situation is par for the course these days.

 

[Basha73]

‘Crisis time’: The London Stock Exchange's £100 billion exodus

There could be even bigger seismic shocks ahead with firms like Shell considering leaving the London Stock Exchange

www.standard.co.uk

well Well well, more brexit chickens coming home to roost.

how much do we have to lose before 52% of us have to swallow some pride and accept they were wrong?

A fair amount of those 52% have realised. Unfortunately it will be a while before we can do much about it…

 

[in_the_top_one]

they never seemed to have minded? i imgine if theyre kindred spirits they mind very much.

Irrespective, lithium mining IS terribly destructive and creating batteries is very energy intensive too.

If you buy an EV today then in the very immediate future you made the problem worse because you basically went into a big carbon debt.
If we had a billion overnight then quite clearly that would be a massive carbon hole we add to what is already a precarious position and may well be enough to go over the tipping point,. i mean thats just obvious right?

Nobody said these are a panacea. The life cycle analyses show carbon gains, and they are what count.

 

[Basha73]

obviously I have no idea on all of this and take this at face value. what I can say is the situation you describe is depressingly familiar in many other areas of the public sector. confectionary headlines with a rather less rosey underlying situation is par for the course these days.

The other day the conversation drifted into the realms of people on benefits who shouldn’t be while at the same time there are people who should be on benefits who keep getting rejected.

What people don’t realise is that most of the IT is out of date and even the most recent desperate recruitment was stopped before reaching the original target of 90% of the required staffing. And that’s before people leave because the job is harder than they realise (probably due to idiotic know-nothings telling them that the civil service is an easy ride).

Then to try and show they are making a difference, the staff get set targets such as reject x% of all applications and then leave it to the local offices to decide how that’s done. Believe me I have seen some insane ways of trying to meet the target.

The reality is that if you want to stop fraud and make sure only the right people get benefits then you have to invest properly.

It’s a similar thing with HMRC. We lose billions each year but the resource just isn’t there to fix things properly.

 

[radfordinlondon]

Nobody said these are a panacea. The life cycle analyses show carbon gains, and they are what count.

that's part of the problem tho imo- the analysis is very narrow- tyre particulates, road and parking infrastructure, accident impact- all worse due to increased weight.

then of course there is charging infrastructure, the real economics of resale value, ability to recycle.

obviously Ev's have their place but a bit like the generation of power, they make nice headlines without really solving the underlying issues.