Your Tax Supporting Cults

Juan Mourep

Vital 1st Team Regular
#1
http://www.parentdish.co.uk/kids/schools-and-religion-why-i-am-losing-faith-in-the-education-system/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cukt1%7Cdl17%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D238427

Schools and religion: Why I'm losing faith in the education system
By Georgia James

I didn't think I'd be the sort of parent to get caught up in the politics of catchment areas and Ofsted reports – not for a primary school. We would find somewhere nice to live and send our son to a local school - as long as the place was safe, caring and had a decent ethos and effective teaching methods. Simple.

I don't have unrealistic expectations about him going to the 'best' primary school in the city or even one with an 'Outstanding' Ofsted rating. 'Good' with a couple of 'Outstanding' areas would be nice, of course, but essentially just one that feels right.

What I do expect is my son – and every other child in this country – to be given a fair chance of attending any of the state-funded schools in his local area, without discrimination and irrespective of religion and cultural beliefs. But it turns out this isn't possible.

"In every area we researched, there were a disproportionately high number of faith schools, significantly limiting the choices open to families who, like us, do not adhere to a particular faith – or who wish to encourage their child to choose his own path by learning about all religions and cultures, irrespective of our own personal beliefs"

I know it is still possible for children of parents "of no faith" (don't we sound awful?) to attend faith schools. But it is more than a little off-putting that they are discriminated against at the outset and sent to the back of the queue, while those practising the faith are given preferential treatment.

It is even more off-putting that those schools also have the legal right to teach a skewed curriculum. Call me radical but I thought it would be good for my son to have a diverse education and be encouraged to think for himself. I certainly won't be indoctrinating him with my own beliefs and opinions. I will share them with him but I actively hope he questions and challenges them. It will be a proud day when I find my own beliefs being swayed by his.

"It is incredibly unfair that children are unable to get into a local school because their parents are not of the right religion or have no religion," Pavan Dhaliwal of the BHA told the BBC.

"In a healthy society children should be able to interact with each other regardless of their background. Segregation, racial or religious, causes distrust and disharmony," he added.

Last week, the Republic of Ireland's Ombudsman for Children, Emily Logan, called for the law to be changed so state funded faith schools are no longer able to discriminate in their admissions policy against children on faith grounds.

She argues: ''... children should not have preferential access to publicly funded education on the basis of their religion"

I'd add to that, we're not even talking about the faith of these children – we're talking about the faith of their parents. An overhaul of the admissions policy of faith schools would certainly be a huge step forward but I question whether state-funded faith schools that teach a biased curriculum should exist at all.

More at the link.


The poll question is this.

Are you happy that you are paying into a system where your child's education can be held back if they don't follow one of the government backed cults?


 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#4
Villan Of The North - 25/1/2014 16:50

Simple, faith schools should be privately funded. Total seperation of church and state.
This...

although I'd rather religion wasn't taught at any school at all. It should be taught by Churches for those who seek out the info. I despised every moment I was taught any of the stuff, I remember getting into trouble a few times because I had more questions than they had answers and I didn't actually believe a word of what they were telling me OR why I was being told OR why I then had to stand up and sing about something I had no wish to sing. I also got told off for not singing but stood by that, they might have tried but they couldn't actually make me sing!
 
#5
Faith schools certainly have a place imo, for those that want their children surrounded by like minded people. Not that faith should be a significant part of the curiculum, or at least not as a compulsary part of it, but I know I appreciate my kids spending time with people who have similar values. Not that my kids go to anything other than a regular state school and other than the level of education they are getting I'm perfectly happy with this. If we had the money they'd be attending hhe local international school which has demonstably better results.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#6
Plenty if us without faith who have similar values though mate. I just don't think this is a job for schools, and it does, in my humble, become a big part of the curriculum.

This is all based on faith, not fact, so as said, I think this should come from churches when you seek it out, not teachers who are supposed to teach facts, hence, if they teach whatever faith, kids will surely see that also as fact?

I did in 'little' school because grown ups were telling me.

Makes me quite annoyed and fairly sad if I am honest, bit extreme to those of you with faith and I don't mean to offend, but i feel it is brainwashing at a very young and trusting age.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#7
I remember a very awkward moment when I was 13 having my first op.

Doc filling out a form asked religion and I said atheist.

Mom looked disappointed and said you are Church of England.

I said sorry, but I'm not. So the doc had to fill in as I said.

As said, then at secondary school the teaching/brainwashing continued and they wouldn't let me excuse myself. But I got in trouble instead because I couldn't just sit silently being told what I just didn't believe.

No place for it at all. I couldn't question them as it was persecution of the RE teachers belief but she could shoot down my lack of belief.
 

thefacehead

Vital Football Hero
#8
Villan Of The North - 25/1/2014 17:19

Faith schools certainly have a place imo, for those that want their children surrounded by like minded people. .
I don't agree I am afraid. It doesn't give the child an option does it! You say like minded people, but they are children, they don't know what they believe until adulthood and should be given the chance to have an open minded education. Sending them to a faith school is tantamount to brain washing imo.
 

thefacehead

Vital Football Hero
#9
The Fear - 25/1/2014 17:11

Villan Of The North - 25/1/2014 16:50

Simple, faith schools should be privately funded. Total seperation of church and state.
This...

although I'd rather religion wasn't taught at any school at all. It should be taught by Churches for those who seek out the info. I despised every moment I was taught any of the stuff, I remember getting into trouble a few times because I had more questions than they had answers and I didn't actually believe a word of what they were telling me OR why I was being told OR why I then had to stand up and sing about something I had no wish to sing. I also got told off for not singing but stood by that, they might have tried but they couldn't actually make me sing!
Here here!

I am not against religion but freedom of choice. I was taught in a primary school where we sang hymns 3 mornings a week and had religious crap rammed down our throats as if it was fact. That is NOT the way children should be taught.

As you say, Churches are for religion, I agree with RE being taught, I think people should be educated on others view of life even if they don't agree with it.

I bloody hated Maths but I had to learn it.
 

HeathfieldRoad1874

Vital Football Legend
#10
thefacehead - 25/1/2014 18:52

The Fear - 25/1/2014 17:11

Villan Of The North - 25/1/2014 16:50

Simple, faith schools should be privately funded. Total seperation of church and state.
This...

although I'd rather religion wasn't taught at any school at all. It should be taught by Churches for those who seek out the info. I despised every moment I was taught any of the stuff, I remember getting into trouble a few times because I had more questions than they had answers and I didn't actually believe a word of what they were telling me OR why I was being told OR why I then had to stand up and sing about something I had no wish to sing. I also got told off for not singing but stood by that, they might have tried but they couldn't actually make me sing!
Here here!

I am not against religion but freedom of choice. I was taught in a primary school where we sang hymns 3 mornings a week and had religious crap rammed down our throats as if it was fact. That is NOT the way children should be taught.

As you say, Churches are for religion, I agree with RE being taught, I think people should be educated on others view of life even if they don't agree with it.

I bloody hated Maths but I had to learn it.
I loved Maths. I hope that helps the debate. :42: :42:
 

thefacehead

Vital Football Hero
#11
HeathfieldRoad1874 - 25/1/2014 19:13

thefacehead - 25/1/2014 18:52

The Fear - 25/1/2014 17:11

Villan Of The North - 25/1/2014 16:50

Simple, faith schools should be privately funded. Total seperation of church and state.
This...

although I'd rather religion wasn't taught at any school at all. It should be taught by Churches for those who seek out the info. I despised every moment I was taught any of the stuff, I remember getting into trouble a few times because I had more questions than they had answers and I didn't actually believe a word of what they were telling me OR why I was being told OR why I then had to stand up and sing about something I had no wish to sing. I also got told off for not singing but stood by that, they might have tried but they couldn't actually make me sing!
Here here!

I am not against religion but freedom of choice. I was taught in a primary school where we sang hymns 3 mornings a week and had religious crap rammed down our throats as if it was fact. That is NOT the way children should be taught.

As you say, Churches are for religion, I agree with RE being taught, I think people should be educated on others view of life even if they don't agree with it.

I bloody hated Maths but I had to learn it.
I loved Maths. I hope that helps the debate. :42: :42:
Square :2:
 
#13
thefacehead - 25/1/2014 19:48

Villan Of The North - 25/1/2014 17:19

Faith schools certainly have a place imo, for those that want their children surrounded by like minded people. .
I don't agree I am afraid. It doesn't give the child an option does it! You say like minded people, but they are children, they don't know what they believe until adulthood and should be given the chance to have an open minded education. Sending them to a faith school is tantamount to brain washing imo.
We all teach our children what we believe. If not then really it's a dereliction of duty as a parent. If you consider it brainwashing when it's about religion but not when , just for example, it's about which football team to follow then I would suggest that your views are not as unbiased or open minded as you might like to think.
 
G

Guest

Guest
#14
The Fear - 25/1/2014 18:40

Plenty if us without faith who have similar values though mate. I just don't think this is a job for schools, and it does, in my humble, become a big part of the curriculum.

This is all based on faith, not fact, so as said, I think this should come from churches when you seek it out, not teachers who are supposed to teach facts, hence, if they teach whatever faith, kids will surely see that also as fact?

I did in 'little' school because grown ups were telling me.

Makes me quite annoyed and fairly sad if I am honest, bit extreme to those of you with faith and I don't mean to offend, but i feel it is brainwashing at a very young and trusting age.
What about all those that went to faith schools and got a fine education and became a success in life - but are not religious? Is that brainwashing?

The state ran schools are very poor in our area and the faith school(Catholic) is yielding great results and churning out pupils that tend to go on and do better things.

Maybe if the faith school is churning out backward kids we could have an argument against them?
 

HeathfieldRoad1874

Vital Football Legend
#15
Green Tea - 25/1/2014 22:25

The Fear - 25/1/2014 18:40

Plenty if us without faith who have similar values though mate. I just don't think this is a job for schools, and it does, in my humble, become a big part of the curriculum.

This is all based on faith, not fact, so as said, I think this should come from churches when you seek it out, not teachers who are supposed to teach facts, hence, if they teach whatever faith, kids will surely see that also as fact?

I did in 'little' school because grown ups were telling me.

Makes me quite annoyed and fairly sad if I am honest, bit extreme to those of you with faith and I don't mean to offend, but i feel it is brainwashing at a very young and trusting age.
What about all those that went to faith schools and got a fine education and became a success in life - but are not religious? Is that brainwashing?

The state ran schools are very poor in our area and the faith school(Catholic) is yielding great results and churning out pupils that tend to go on and do better things.

Maybe if the faith school is churning out backward kids we could have an argument against them?
Of course they are churning out pupils that do well. They are cherry picking students from the start, so it's inevitable. It's got nothing to do with the Curriculum. Even you can see that, surely?
 
G

Guest

Guest
#16
No they are not "cherry picking". They take in the Catholic pupils from Catholic families. Only remaining unfilled places will be offered to those that are not Catholic.
 

HeathfieldRoad1874

Vital Football Legend
#17
Green Tea - 25/1/2014 22:41

No they are not "cherry picking". They take in the Catholic pupils from Catholic families. Only remaining unfilled places will be offered to those that are not Catholic.
What percentage is made up of each? And of those non Catholic, they then cherry pick from the rest, right?

I see dozens or parents getting their kids Christened just to get into the Catholic school. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Good results attract good students. They're not Catholic, just do enough to qualify. These tend to be the better educated parents, who can work out how to get the best for their kids.

Every school should be forced to take an equal representation of the community around them. It's the only way to make a fair comparison.
 

BBJ

Vital Champions League
#18
As regards maths, I was good at geometry and trigonometry (and arithmetic, obviously) but was hopeless at algebra.
As regards the main point of the discussion, when we were sending our children to school, there was only a choice between the local Catholic school and the semi-local Protestant one. This was when the Republic was ostensibly wall-to-wall Catholic.
A couple of our grandchildren go to the local Catholic school whilst the others go to "Educate Together" schools which are totally non-denominational. There is no nearby "Educate Together" school for the two who go to the local Catholic one.
We had no problems at all relating to their different religion. I suppose it might have been because we were "brain washing" them at home......(I am always bemused with the idea that kids should be left to make up their own minds about religion and morals but not, say, about what time they should go to bed. Families, in my opinion, are not meant to be democracies.)
There was, however, exclusion for two of our sons who were not too interested in sport. Basically, the teacher (who is now the headmaster and has a high opinion of himself), being GAA-mad, focused on his protegees and really just left the "non performers" in a corner of the field doing not a fat lot.
 
G

Guest

Guest
#19
Yes I agree that any remaining spaces that they have left over - the pupils/family applying will be decided by the school. But they dont "just" chose the best pupils as that wouldnt be Catholic..They will select many from disadvantaged backgrounds too.
I too have seen parents become Catholic "just" to get there kids into the school...But the fact remains that the faith school education is(in the case I speak of) yielding pupils that go on to do better things.

I think the issues we should be looking at, are improving the state ran schools. So that parents like the one mentioned in this thread shouldnt have to complain about sending their child to a faith school just to get a good education.
 

david-avfc

Vital 1st Team Regular
#20
There should simply be no faith schools. School should be about education and not religion. Of course educate about the different religions, but doing so in a way that teaches children that 1 religion is the 'right' religion seems a bit backwards to me.

I went to a church of England primary school and I haven't turned out religious, and I don't think my school was/ is that bad. The religious stuff was more about conveying morals and the difference between good and bad rather than teaching us religion. A lot of the kids were Indian/ Sikh anyway.