You lot are amateurs! | Page 2 | Vital Football

You lot are amateurs!

alphabet_king

Vital 1st Team Regular
#22
What i find interesting is that a man has been killed again by a bent police officer, followed by some completely over zealous policing of protests, and people are moaning more about some companies being robbed rather than trying to understand the underlying reasons.

I saw an article where the chief of police actually bravely asked is he can join the protesters in their march. In that state there's not been anywhere near the level of rioting.
 

markinkent

Vital 1st Team Regular
#23
Nicking stuff aint violence, it's theft.

But what is theft? And who are the real thieves?
I like reading your posts Buddha. We live very different lives but I normally can see where you are coming from but then these little comments let you down in my opinion.

Opportunists smashing into stores to nick the latest wide screen telly are not joining your civil uprising. They are opportunist filth taking something that doesn't belong to them.

They aren't stealing to feed their family they are stealing consumer goods that you dont need to survive but looks good on their wall.

Someone stealing a loaf of bread I dont have issue with. A 60 inch Sony I do.
 

Buddha

Vital 1st Team Regular
#25
I like reading your posts Buddha. We live very different lives but I normally can see where you are coming from but then these little comments let you down in my opinion.

Opportunists smashing into stores to nick the latest wide screen telly are not joining your civil uprising. They are opportunist filth taking something that doesn't belong to them.

They aren't stealing to feed their family they are stealing consumer goods that you dont need to survive but looks good on their wall.

Someone stealing a loaf of bread I dont have issue with. A 60 inch Sony I do.

Mark, I'm not really an advocate of looting. But it is, I think, an unavoidable consequence of the rioting. As AK put it (very well), " people feel powerless and its a way to try to gain back the feeling of power." I'm the same as AK, I might not agree with the looting but I sure as fuck can understand it.

Stealing isn't right, I don't condone it and I am no thief. You very correctly draw a distinction between stealing to feed yourself/your family and stealing something like a television. They are indeed very different things.

And I agree that the opportunists who go looting aren't joining in a civil uprising. But you have to look at it from their point of view. When people feel that they have been disenfranchised and abused by a racist and corrupt system they become enraged and want to take the power back. Although it's only an illusion, looting serves to make (some) people feel that they are striking back.

As much as the looting may be regrettable in some ways, it represents only a tiny fraction of the theft and violence that the state engages on a daily basis.
 
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shotshy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#26
Well, the florist in Bideford is putting up the shutters anyway, just in case.

She can't risk her gladioli getting pilfered.
 

Buddha

Vital 1st Team Regular
#27
What i find interesting is that a man has been killed again by a bent police officer, followed by some completely over zealous policing of protests, and people are moaning more about some companies being robbed rather than trying to understand the underlying reasons.

I saw an article where the chief of police actually bravely asked is he can join the protesters in their march. In that state there's not been anywhere near the level of rioting.
Police have been joining protests in a number of US cities. In these cities the protests have been peaceful and there has been no violence.

Only where the police have tried to stop protests against the racist killing by a police officer has there been any violence and/or looting.

If the police try to defend a corrupt and racist system violence will inevitable ensue.


These police have the right idea:
pol.jpg
 
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Buddha

Vital 1st Team Regular
#28
No, they go after Cereal cafes
Yeah, cos cereal cafes charging £10 for a bowl of cornflakes is really the kind of place 'normal people' frequent! Bit of a fucking kick in the teeth when it's your neighbourhood, your community that has been bought up cheap and then 'developed' so that the original inhabitants are priced out of their communities. It's called gentrification and it represents class war. Yet some people feel aggrieved when the other side fight back.

Cereal cafes aint the problem but they sure as fuck represent gentrification of working class areas. And gentrification of working class areas must be opposed whenever it can be.
 

markinkent

Vital 1st Team Regular
#29
And I agree that the opportunists who go looting aren't joining in a civil uprising. But you have to look at it from their point of view. When people feel that they have been disenfranchised and abused by a racist and corrupt system they become enraged and want to take the power back. Although it's only an illusion, looting serves to make (some) people feel that they are striking back.
.

Sorry but cant agree. It's not about taking power back, it's about taking something for nothing.

If people want to protest against the system go on a peaceful march or go on strike. Dont pay taxes, organise and rise up.

If your first though is to smash up a target and wheel out a tele you ain't protesting on taking power back you are taking a tele.

Simple opportunist thieving and is distracts people from the real.story.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...6723656400&extid=BQDckWu7yeXPRyXx&d=null&vh=e
 

Buddha

Vital 1st Team Regular
#30
Sorry but cant agree. It's not about taking power back, it's about taking something for nothing.

If people want to protest against the system go on a peaceful march or go on strike. Dont pay taxes, organise and rise up.

If your first though is to smash up a target and wheel out a tele you ain't protesting on taking power back you are taking a tele.

Simple opportunist thieving and is distracts people from the real.story.
It's obviously distracted you.

I said that it was an illusion. They're not really taking any power back but to them it feels like they are. Only when you have been as abused and condemned as they have will you be able to claim the moral high ground.

Though ultimately, I do agree with you that it is counter productive. But it's a side show, it's not the REAL issue here.

I completely agree that proper organisation, strikes and civil disobedience are far more useful tools of revolution than looting. The people doing the looting are missing the point. But so too are those who focus on the looting whilst ignoring the violence of the state.
 

alphabet_king

Vital 1st Team Regular
#31
Sorry but cant agree. It's not about taking power back, it's about taking something for nothing.

If people want to protest against the system go on a peaceful march or go on strike. Dont pay taxes, organise and rise up.

If your first though is to smash up a target and wheel out a tele you ain't protesting on taking power back you are taking a tele.

Simple opportunist thieving and is distracts people from the real.story.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...6723656400&extid=BQDckWu7yeXPRyXx&d=null&vh=e
Society is basically a contract between many people. People agree to a set of common rules and behaviours in the expectation that everyone else will do the same etc. Thats the contract you make to live in society. However when something like george floyd happens, the feeling is that someones not keeping their side of the contract.

These people are people who feel the moral contract has been broken by the system, so why should they stick to their side of the contract? Why should they not just steal? If they can get away with it, why not?

Again, i dont think id do it myself, but ive never been inthe situation. I am a white middle class man so never had the treatment that many will have had, and will never have had the feeling of powerlessness that many black people will have at the moment. I can well imagine black people would love for justice to be served in the correct way, but history says it wont be. Democratic methods clearly are seen to be failing by many.
 

Buddha

Vital 1st Team Regular
#32
Society is basically a contract between many people. People agree to a set of common rules and behaviours in the expectation that everyone else will do the same etc. Thats the contract you make to live in society. However when something like george floyd happens, the feeling is that someones not keeping their side of the contract.

These people are people who feel the moral contract has been broken by the system, so why should they stick to their side of the contract? Why should they not just steal? If they can get away with it, why not?

Again, i dont think id do it myself, but ive never been inthe situation. I am a white middle class man so never had the treatment that many will have had, and will never have had the feeling of powerlessness that many black people will have at the moment. I can well imagine black people would love for justice to be served in the correct way, but history says it wont be. Democratic methods clearly are seen to be failing by many.
You're on form today, AK. We'll make a revolutionary of you yet! ;-)
 

markinkent

Vital 1st Team Regular
#34
I guess where I disagree AK / Buddha is that their thoughts are not "we are doing this for george" but "lets grab what we can".

I could never prove it but that just my honest belief. This is about them and what they can steal, it's not about civil disobedience at all.

Just my cynical view.
 

ThreeSixes

Vital 1st Team Regular
#36
Yeah, cos cereal cafes charging £10 for a bowl of cornflakes is really the kind of place 'normal people' frequent!
Their website says that a bowl of cereal is £4.50
Bit of a fucking kick in the teeth when it's your neighbourhood, your community that has been bought up cheap and then 'developed' so that the original inhabitants are priced out of their communities. It's called gentrification and it represents class war. Yet some people feel aggrieved when the other side fight back.

Cereal cafes aint the problem but they sure as fuck represent gentrification of working class areas. And gentrification of working class areas must be opposed whenever it can be.
Yeah, we've done this before. People protested when Asians moved into working class areas, and people protested again when hipsters moved into working class areas. You're the only person that thinks there's a difference.

Why don't you let us voters decide what should be opposed?
 

valenciagill

Vital Football Hero
#37
Bit of a fucking kick in the teeth when it's your neighbourhood, your community that has been bought up cheap and then 'developed' so that the original inhabitants are priced out of their communities. It's called gentrification and it represents class war. Yet some people feel aggrieved when the other side fight back.
Class war represents envy.
How would you feel if your caravan was torched by a jealous tent-dweller ?
 

Buddha

Vital 1st Team Regular
#39
I guess where I disagree AK / Buddha is that their thoughts are not "we are doing this for george" but "lets grab what we can".
You are probably right about that. Mark.

But what about the cop who killed George Floyd wasn't thinking, "I'm protecting the people", but rather, "this is just another black man who I can abuse".

How can you be concerned about looting when another innocent black man has been killed by the police?! Who gives a fuck about material objects when people are being killed?! Get real, Mark, and get some perspective.

You might be right about the looting but to concentrate upon that is to dismiss the real issue here.
 

Buddha

Vital 1st Team Regular
#40
Class war represents envy.
How would you feel if your caravan was torched by a jealous tent-dweller ?
Class war doesn't represent envy.

'Class War' as a term refers to the tension that exists in society among the different social classes as a response to the socioeconomic arrangement of power and resources. Class war is fought by both sides. When the system condemns people to live in poverty and when the system kills innocent people for having the wrong colour skin, that is class warfare. It is not about envy, it is about asserting power and control.

Thing is, some people don't like it when the working class fight back.

class.jpg