y word consultation results | Vital Football

y word consultation results

Worth reading the whole article but here are the points highlighted at the top
  • 33% of respondents use the Y-word ‘regularly’ in a footballing context
  • 18% of respondents that do not use the term in a footballing context consider it ‘offensive’, with the number rising to 35% among Jewish respondents
  • Only 12% of respondents would use the term outside of a footballing context
  • 94% of respondents acknowledge the Y-word can be considered a racist term against a Jewish person
  • Almost half of all respondents would prefer to see supporters choose to chant the Y-word less or stop using it altogether
It feels fairly obvious ENIC/THFC powers that be want to now end the use of the word but it's ingrained into many of the loudest chants.

I'm torn as whilst they seem to be talking about the antisemitism problem existing in the 70s and 80s I've been to games in the last decade where there's been antisemitic chants, hissing and nazi salutes. Furthermore the atmosphere is crap enough already without getting rid of half the chants.

I also think the data is probably slightly skewed as the respondents are likely going to have a higher proportion of people who want to see the usage stopped as they're taking the time out to respond in the first place. That said there are clearly a fair few fans who aren't comfortable with it and their voice deserves to be heard on it. Just hope the atmosphere doesn't dip even lower than it is already in our lovely new stadium.
 
Being a none practicing Jew by birth I still find certain words derogatory but NOT Yids.

As a life long spurs supporter I have heard all sorts of anti-semitic chants and slurs at matches at school and in life in general etc

By our supporters chanting it, it actual IMO stops other racist inclined fans from doing so as it would seem they are supporting us.

So in a way it self defeats their racism.

Many of my associates, friends, family who know my background actually use it sometimes in a funny almost empathetic way....which I personally find inoffensive. especially when we discuss football...I sometimes refer to Liverpool as Bin Dippers in discussions ...is that offensive?

Sometimes I feel we are too sensitive and the political correctness brigade are truly responsible for this. A black comedian or Muslim comedian be derogatory about their own culture but a white comedian cannot risk doing likewise. Comedy should cross all boundaries.

There is the rub really ...it is how the receiver perceives the context in how the Y word and other such words are said and by whom.

I would find an aggressively spouted YID offensive by a stranger growling for example as he/she spat it out. , I would find 'filthy jew boy' extremely offensive and none of my friends or associates have ever resorted to such awful anti-semitic words.

In my opinion the Y word has evolved into a non racist Spurs Cultural chant and no more. It is funny really as 50% of my large family are Arse supoorters and I would think there are as many Jewish Arse supporters as Spurs ones.

So urgo it is an identity thing which has evolved maybe from racist intentions but is now embedded in our identity. Yid army Yid army...
 
I didn't respond to the survey, as I've always maintained the position it is a decision for our Jewish supporters to make, theirs and theirs alone.

That said, my preference is for it to end being used as although the majority of our Jewish fans that I've spoken to personally understand completely why it's used in the context it is, many feel that dealing with offensive words/chants/actions towards them and abhorrent behavior would be easier if this debate was no more.

Our use of the word has done its job, where we stand is crystal clear, let's rest on that. Be proud, but for everyones sake, let's move on.

As for the (for me) bigger issues of the declining atmosphere, that's the clubs responsibility on two levels a) the rigid enforcement against home supporters forcing them to remain in their seats whilst ignoring the fact that away supporters stand throughout, and because of the bigger allocation now make our home support sound ineffectual and timorous.

and b) The clubs inability to come up with a comprehensive 'family' affordable plan to get more youngsters and tiered pricing for kids into it's plans in a way that is more than a token gesture.
 
First of all, this is also a fantastic read - https://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/features/how-tottenham-became-the-jewish-football-team-1.53784

This article, an excerpt, from a book (A People's History of Tottenham Hotspur) talks about the entire chronology including the Arsenal Jewish piece that Greaves mention.

For me, the club through the website failed slightly to set the context of this conversation. They just dived in with stats and skirted around the "why we're doing this" topic. I'm still unsure whether they are trying to form a formal THFC stance and subsequent policy or just paying lip services to the FA and Met Police after they dived in without any prior due diligence. Seems to me everyone's now playing catch-up on making a determination, which is a belated good thing.

To the topic itself, I'm sort of agnostic as I'm neither Jewish or someone that regularly experiences the use of the word in the moment i.e. on the terraces. The norms in life on the "isms" or "phobias" is normally about how the receiver is interpreting the words being used in their direction. It's the context rather than the words themselves that offend. I'm clearly not on the receiving end or exposed as a bystander to interpret other peoples reactions to help form an opinion. What I do know when I've said the word myself I have never said it in a Jewish context. Like most of us, I have used the Y-word though.

As a footnote, I'm also aware that some words can evolve from their original definition into a completely different connotation over time e.g. the word "gay".
 
I didn't respond to the survey, as I've always maintained the position it is a decision for our Jewish supporters to make, theirs and theirs alone.

That said, my preference is for it to end being used as although the majority of our Jewish fans that I've spoken to personally understand completely why it's used in the context it is, many feel that dealing with offensive words/chants/actions towards them and abhorrent behavior would be easier if this debate was no more.

Our use of the word has done its job, where we stand is crystal clear, let's rest on that. Be proud, but for everyones sake, let's move on.

As for the (for me) bigger issues of the declining atmosphere, that's the clubs responsibility on two levels a) the rigid enforcement against home supporters forcing them to remain in their seats whilst ignoring the fact that away supporters stand throughout, and because of the bigger allocation now make our home support sound ineffectual and timorous.

and b) The clubs inability to come up with a comprehensive 'family' affordable plan to get more youngsters and tiered pricing for kids into it's plans in a way that is more than a token gesture.



Ex , is anyone at the club concerned at the lack of atmosphere in the new Library and if so is anything being done to rectify the situation ?

Or is it just a case of 60,000 bums on seats ( at least the home bums are ), lovely lolly, who cares ?
 
I have always been against the banning of words, always considered it a dangerous road to take the first steps on.
 

I don't normally bother with reading much that he puts out and afraid all that article does is reconfirm why; of course, THFC have an agenda and of course, they'd rather be shot of being the target for vocal non-Spurs loving Jews and so as they have done for many years; the club has walked the tightrope of wanting to end the chant of the Y-word without alienating our support.

That's the clubs agenda and that's the blindingly obvious context! You'd have to be deaf dumb and blind not to understand that by now.

We have to accept that there are many Spurs loving Jews who find the whole thing distasteful and upsetting and would rather see it ended once and for all; I have Jewish friends who go to every game they can and they still never join into the chant and still feel uncomfortable with it, which is why I personally think THFC have to get brave and identify those supporters that identify themselves as Jewish (wouldn't be as difficult as you think) and only survey them and them alone and let them speak openly about their preferred use/non-use of the word and the rest of us who aren't Jewish, simply respect their wishes (which would, of course, would have to be by a survey/secret ballot).

It has no bearing how much of a minority group they are of our support, it is they and they alone that are/or are not offended by it, we can claim our history and hold our heads up proud that we did what we did, but we are not the arbiters of good taste and never can be as rarely does it affect us.

The moral high ground can be a difficult and uncomfortable place but it's their to be claimed and damn the small-minded who can't see it.

It doesn't have to be 'banned' a simple well-crafted request made by those it affects as a collective could easily be respected by the rest of us.

I for one would respect such a request and many other Spurs fans I know, would too.
 
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Ex , is anyone at the club concerned at the lack of atmosphere in the new Library and if so is anything being done to rectify the situation ?

Or is it just a case of 60,000 bums on seats ( at least the home bums are ), lovely lolly, who cares ?

I know alot of the old Pro's think the atmosphere is poor and we should be taking steps to improve it, and I'm aware the supporters trust has made representations (remember the big flags), but bottom line is our support base is old and getting older and the inability to stand and band together just kills us - and that's why the clubs answer is to be ready for standing seats - which could well be back within the next few years, but apart from that, I don't believe they think there is anything they can do.

The problem is the law; and the law would pick on the low hanging fruit i.e. if the stewards turned a blind eye to home supporters doing it, we'd get clobbered and we have been warned by the police many times in the past for doing just that.

What I never understand is how the away support gets away with it - it strikes me we are just too scared to do anything about them.
 
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I don't normally bother with reading much that he puts out and afraid all that article does is reconfirm why; of course, THFC have an agenda and of course, they'd rather be shot of being the target for vocal non-Spurs loving Jews and so as they have done for many years; the club has walked the tightrope of wanting to end the chant of the Y-word without alienating our support.

That's the clubs agenda and that's the blindingly obvious context! You'd have to be deaf dumb and blind not to understand that by now.

We have to accept that there are many Spurs loving Jews who find the whole thing distasteful and upsetting and would rather see it ended once and for all; I have Jewish friends who go to every game they can and they still never join into the chant and still feel uncomfortable with it, which is why I personally think THFC have to get brave and identify those supporters that identify themselves as Jewish (wouldn't be as difficult as you think) and only survey them and them alone and let them speak openly about their preferred use/non-use of the word and the rest of us who aren't Jewish, simply respect their wishes (which would, of course, would have to be by a survey/secret ballot).

It has no bearing how much of a minority group they are of our support, it is they and they alone that are/or are not offended by it, we can claim our history and hold our heads up proud that we did what we did, but we are not the arbiters of good taste and never can be as rarely does it affect us.

The moral high ground can be a difficult and uncomfortable place but it's their to be claimed and damn the small-minded who can't see it.

It doesn't have to be 'banned' a simple well-crafted request made by those it affects as a collective could easily be respected by the rest of us.

I for one would respect such a request and many other Spurs fans I know, would too.



Do you remember our conversation on a very similar subject probably well over ten years ago when I said the Government approved little pocket book of officially approved insults and put downs would be the future ?

Haha , here we are !
 
Worth reading the whole article but here are the points highlighted at the top
  • 33% of respondents use the Y-word ‘regularly’ in a footballing context
  • 18% of respondents that do not use the term in a footballing context consider it ‘offensive’, with the number rising to 35% among Jewish respondents
  • Only 12% of respondents would use the term outside of a footballing context
  • 94% of respondents acknowledge the Y-word can be considered a racist term against a Jewish person
  • Almost half of all respondents would prefer to see supporters choose to chant the Y-word less or stop using it altogether
It feels fairly obvious ENIC/THFC powers that be want to now end the use of the word but it's ingrained into many of the loudest chants.

I'm torn as whilst they seem to be talking about the antisemitism problem existing in the 70s and 80s I've been to games in the last decade where there's been antisemitic chants, hissing and nazi salutes. Furthermore the atmosphere is crap enough already without getting rid of half the chants.

I also think the data is probably slightly skewed as the respondents are likely going to have a higher proportion of people who want to see the usage stopped as they're taking the time out to respond in the first place. That said there are clearly a fair few fans who aren't comfortable with it and their voice deserves to be heard on it. Just hope the atmosphere doesn't dip even lower than it is already in our lovely new stadium.

Well said my friend.

Although I agree that some may find it offensive, some may also find swearing words even more offensive, especially if they take family members to the game.

There will always be some % of a survey who find something distasteful, that's life. However the entire world seems to be bowing to the vocal minority, whilst we, the silent majority sit back and take it.

I personally wouldn't mind if the Spurs fans stopped using the Y word altogether if it made "almost half the respondents" happier.

On a different note, but similar, have a look at the lack of Christmas decorations in the towns, cities, shops and businesses compared to the 70's and 80's. The minority have spoken.
 
Do you remember our conversation on a very similar subject probably well over ten years ago when I said the Government approved little pocket book of officially approved insults and put downs would be the future ?

Haha , here we are !

Pragmatism is a worthy concept that serves me well; as attitudes and ages change I don't mind at all old usages falling out of favour as minorities rightly stand against terms that they personally find offensive or a put-down or even insulting.

When I was growing up, where I lived you heard the N-word on a daily basis, as well as the term ****, Chink etc - I could go on, but won't. Today, these minorities have made it clear that they were consigned to the dustbin, I have no problem with that at all.

But the good news is the libertarian left-wing bias and reality has been well and truly beaten back, probably for at least a decade and may well go some way to redressing the balance of the left's assault on the majority's values.

The Y-word is one of those terms where I think the Jewish community should 'own' it's usage at our club, asking people like us who have not lived their history haven't suffered the racist abuse they have is utterly pointless and an exercise in futility.

It really shouldn't be for us non-Jews to dictate to them what they find tasteless and offensive, and I wish the club would recognise this and proceed accordingly.
 
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If we were a Serie A club the FA would have created a cunning marketing initiative featuring images of famous HAMAS and German individuals telling us that the Y word isn't needed anymore.
 
Well said my friend.

Although I agree that some may find it offensive, some may also find swearing words even more offensive, especially if they take family members to the game.

There will always be some % of a survey who find something distasteful, that's life. However the entire world seems to be bowing to the vocal minority, whilst we, the silent majority sit back and take it.

I personally wouldn't mind if the Spurs fans stopped using the Y word altogether if it made "almost half the respondents" happier.

On a different note, but similar, have a look at the lack of Christmas decorations in the towns, cities, shops and businesses compared to the 70's and 80's. The minority have spoken.


' Give 'em an inch and they want a mile '

Never a truer word spoken , some things are just never ending once you let them start.

Banning words is scary IMO , a bit 16th century and the witchcraft trials or more modern Stalin, Hitler and Mao, burning books will be next, older books are already censored for 'inappropriate language', just give it time.
 
This is nonsense. Most people that I know as Spurs and Jewish never complain about the Y-word. True, some don’t use it but as they understand us and the fact that it’s not meant as a term of offence but a term of solidarity- they don’t complain! The complainers are usually followers of our various London rivals that just happen to be Jewish themselves.

That being the case they should take a look closer to home as I don’t need some Chelsea West Ham or @rsenal tosser lecturing me about offensive chanting!

I’m a YID!