World Cup 2018 Fred sponsored by Unfounded Optimism followed by Abject Disappointment | Page 57 | Vital Football

World Cup 2018 Fred sponsored by Unfounded Optimism followed by Abject Disappointment

So who do we support in the final? Not a fan of the French but the Croats weren’t exactly magnanimous in victory so I am not particularly enamoured of them at the moment. Hmmm.
 
Croatia it’s a beautiful country that went through a truly horrific war not very long ago at all. It’s also a country with a population of 4 million people. I don’t see anyone can say anything different. We had players older than their country.
 
Woanz said:
Croatia it’s a beautiful country that went through a truly horrific war not very long ago at all. It’s also a country with a population of 4 million people. I don’t see anyone can say anything different. We had players older than their country.
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It woz a civil war m8- they did it to each other!

Choice between France having more world wc than us or a nationalistic country that will make us talking about 1966 seem reasonable. I am choosing the fact that Germany didn't win.

Will be a.good game but I think France won't switch off like we did. They also have a pretty decent midfield themselves in kante and pogba. 2-0 to the frogs I reckon
 
Will.NFFC said:
Horrible after half time and reflective of the past 20 years of England performances. No doubt I'll get slammed for not heaping praise on them for getting to a semi final. Don't get me wrong, great first half and if they'd continued it into the second half, I'd be the first to say 'fantastic world cup'.

In reality however, they've beaten panama, Tunisia and Sweden and have found themselves out after playing a half decent team.

Certainly positivity for the future but desperately disappointed with how negative they were after half time! It was there for the taking and they lost it rather than Croatia winning it. Reminded me of the forest Blackpool play off game in some ways.
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Totally agree

That second half reminded me of Forest under Warburton. Negative football, playing back to the keeper from the final third.
 
Must admit I don’t think Croatia have enough to beat the French.

Think it could be quite a dour, attritional game too.

Meh.
 
Will.NFFC said:
Horrible after half time and reflective of the past 20 years of England performances. No doubt I'll get slammed for not heaping praise on them for getting to a semi final. Don't get me wrong, great first half and if they'd continued it into the second half, I'd be the first to say 'fantastic world cup'.

In reality however, they've beaten panama, Tunisia and Sweden and have found themselves out after playing a half decent team.

Certainly positivity for the future but desperately disappointed with how negative they were after half time! It was there for the taking and they lost it rather than Croatia winning it. Reminded me of the forest Blackpool play off game in some ways.
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It was the first and only time I’ve questioned what Southgate did. It was the strangest game. For 35 minutes we totally dominated, and Croatia didn’t know what to do. I have no idea what happened after that, changed their game, and let them back in it, and then allowed them to dominate us. Why we changed after five and a half games of excellence, is anyone’s guess. Gutted.
 
I assume that Southgate is still learning the trade and this has been a very hard lesson for him.

He's a definite improvement on what we've had and I hope he sticks with the job.
 
Walkers never been a centre back....his pace compensates for atrocious concentration and positioning. Sterlings the new Barnes..Young looked out of his depth from the 1st minute against Croatia and was scared to death of Rebic. Build for the next world cup now. Bring in Foden Sessegnon Cook and the likes..we desperately lacked a creative midfielder or 2..it was glaringly obvious against Croatia as we kept booting the ball back to them..cant play Sterling Alli and Lingard at the same time...2 out of 3..at the MOST.
 
Mappred said:
It was the first and only time I’ve questioned what Southgate did. It was the strangest game. For 35 minutes we totally dominated, and Croatia didn’t know what to do. I have no idea what happened after that, changed their game, and let them back in it, and then allowed them to dominate us. Why we changed after five and a half games of excellence, is anyone’s guess. Gutted.
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I think it was like the forest Sheffield united playoff game under `Hart where a some of the young players suddenly thought "fuck me! we are going to be in the Premier league / World cup final" I dont think the tactics failed. Just the enormity of the achievement struck them at half time.
Not much you can do except stick with your young, talented squad (who have shown what they can do) and try and try to add a genuine playmaker / flair player to the mix?

Euro 2020 will be interesting and i hope we can keep the momentum going
 
Sterling for me was the single most frustrating thing about our campaign. I know he’s good at keeping at least two opposing defenders busy for pretty much every single minute he’s on the pitch as well as preventing as many opposing players from coming forward for corners etc, but his inability to produce either a telling final ball (most of the time) or shooting (and scoring) when he gets the chance are the key areas which are preventing him from becoming the world class player that the England team is crying out for.

If he ever sorts those above problems out on a consistent basis, then the national team will be laughing and the world would be his oyster.

As an aside, as someone who didn’t expect us to get as far as we did, let alone any further, I’m unable to share in the disappointment felt by some.

As touched upon by others, the true disappointment lies with how we simply seemed to give up at the 45 minute mark in the semi. As the players came off at half time, I just couldn’t see how we could capitulate as we did. After all the good and hard work put in, noticeably against Columbia and Sweden, and the way the team had played all tournament, it was galling and painful to watch that second half against Croatia. Particularly when the bad old days of England seemed long forgotten up to and including the half time whistle in that semi final. To this day I still can’t facthom out what the game plan was in that second half, but why we changed what we’d been doing all tournament is a complete mystery to me!

The media are now hyping up our chances for the next tournament, saying how it’s a young team which will develop into something more further down the line. But when you consider how hapless we were from half time onwards the other night, it would be folly to believe we’ll win anything anytime soon. More so when you consider that by losing to Belgium in the final group game, that we had the easier side of the draw.

Southgate though is certainly the big winner from this tournament. He handled himself well and with good grace, and I’m sure that when/if the England job turns sour he won’t be short of offers.
 
Do they give out medals for third place? No one seems to want this game, but think I might be more interested as a player if I got a bronze medal. At least it can be played without the pressure of the other games.
 
PVH said:
Sterling for me was the single most frustrating thing about our campaign. I know he’s good at keeping at least two opposing defenders busy for pretty much every single minute he’s on the pitch as well as preventing as many opposing players from coming forward for corners etc, but his inability to produce either a telling final ball (most of the time) or shooting (and scoring) when he gets the chance are the key areas which are preventing him from becoming the world class player that the England team is crying out for.

If he ever sorts those above problems out on a consistent basis, then the national team will be laughing and the world would be his oyster.

As an aside, as someone who didn’t expect us to get as far as we did, let alone any further, I’m unable to share in the disappointment felt by some.

As touched upon by others, the true disappointment lies with how we simply seemed to give up at the 45 minute mark in the semi. As the players came off at half time, I just couldn’t see how we could capitulate as we did. After all the good and hard work put in, noticeably against Columbia and Sweden, and the way the team had played all tournament, it was galling and painful to watch that second half against Croatia. Particularly when the bad old days of England seemed long forgotten up to and including the half time whistle in that semi final. To this day I still can’t facthom out what the game plan was in that second half, but why we changed what we’d been doing all tournament is a complete mystery to me!

The media are now hyping up our chances for the next tournament, saying how it’s a young team which will develop into something more further down the line. But when you consider how hapless we were from half time onwards the other night, it would be folly to believe we’ll win anything anytime soon. More so when you consider that by losing to Belgium in the final group game, that we had the easier side of the draw.

Southgate though is certainly the big winner from this tournament. He handled himself well and with good grace, and I’m sure that when/if the England job turns sour he won’t be short of offers.
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PVH, you surprise me.

You are usually serious, but when you describe Sterling as potentially World Class you must be having a laugh, and a pretty big one at that.

How many World Class players are there out there?

And what do you have to do to be deemed World Class?

Whatever criteria you use, whatever metrics you use, Sterling is not, and will never, ever, be World Class.

He is only deemed International class because the next person in line is Rashford ffs.

Being able to run fast, the one thing he does with some accomplishment, does not equate to class or merit whatsoever other than in Athletics.

And as for England's second half performance; the rot had set in way before the second half.

England ran them ragged for the first 15 - 20 minutes and then Croatia started to come in to the game.

Croatia were on top before half time arrived; ITV flashed up a number of statistics after around 35 minutes that displayed pass completion and possession, they did not make good reading.

One player made the difference; he did not have a kick for 15 minutes and the ran the show until he ran out of steam at around the 80 minute mark.

When you have genuine class, the players around you tend to raise their game, and that is exactly what happened.
 
Not sure I agree about Sterling.

The fact that he got 18 goals and 11 assists in 33 premier league games last season suggests he does more than just ‘run fast’. The fact he even got 33 games at all under Guardiola suggests that.

This is what makes him so frustrating.

You ask what it means to be World Class and for me that depends on the players skill set.

In terms of what Sterling does to get there then if he could replicate his Premier League form and stats in the Champions League and for England then you could argue he would either be there or near as damn it.

He is only 24, not 30 so he does have time to improve. The issue for me is whether he can or will. I personally am not ready to write him off yet.

Earlier in this thread you mentioned the fact that Sterling could not replicate his club form with lesser players in the England team as a reason he wasn’t very good. In response I would say that Lionel Messi, who genuinely is World Class, also hasn’t managed to replicate his club form on the international stage. Opinions eh?
 
Didn’t say he was World Class. Just that he could be if he makes the most of the abilities he has got. It’s up to him whether he does or not but to me just dismissing him out of hand is silly, particularly as he could be so good for us.
 
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