World Cup 2018 Fred sponsored by Unfounded Optimism followed by Abject Disappointment

[Hardy Forest]

Completely agree. Retrospective ban would sort it. It would be an initial few weeks of carnage, but after that the coaches would sort it out, as they wont want to be without their star players week in week out.
Premiership is as bad as anywhere else now. I'm not just laying this at the feet of foreign players, we are as bad these days.

 

[Hamdan]

I got back from Russia earlier today after going out on a one way ticket just before Sweden game, then stayed for the semi final. Before the semi I took a punt and bought tickets for the final - after we got beat I was so disappointed and wanted to come home but was convinced to stay by my mate who I went with & watched the final, skipping the playoff game in St Petersburg.

From being out there and watching the games live it was clear that this was more than likely the best and only chance we will have of reaching a final in my lifetime, and in all probability anyone over 30’s lifetime. We played much better than previous tournaments granted, but we have no game changer and there is no way the draw in any future world cups is going to open up like this one. At least one or two of Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Holland, Brazil is going to improve past us over the next 4yrs+ and we are going to be left further down the pecking order. I think I’m right in saying we only scored 1 goal from open play all tournament ?

I couldn’t see which England player would get in the French side. I’m not knocking England, they played bloody well, gave us all a run for our money, but that was our best shout for a final for many a tournament I think. That French side is good. Croatia were there for the taking first half against us but when you watch a game live you just get a feeling of what was to come and I just knew deep down at half time we were in trouble and odds were against us. We’d missed our opportunity in the first half.

I was absolutely gutted after the match, not because I thought we should have won, we shouldn’t, but because that was my last chance to see England in world final and we were 21 minutes away from that dream. After seeing the final yesterday live, that feeling is only stronger.

If only ..........

 

[radfordinlondon]

I got back from Russia earlier today after going out on a one way ticket just before Sweden game, then stayed for the semi final. Before the semi I took a punt and bought tickets for the final - after we got beat I was so disappointed and wanted to come home but was convinced to stay by my mate who I went with & watched the final, skipping the playoff game in St Petersburg.

From being out there and watching the games live it was clear that this was more than likely the best and only chance we will have of reaching a final in my lifetime, and in all probability anyone over 30’s lifetime. We played much better than previous tournaments granted, but we have no game changer and there is no way the draw in any future world cups is going to open up like this one. At least one or two of Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Holland, Brazil is going to improve past us over the next 4yrs+ and we are going to be left further down the pecking order. I think I’m right in saying we only scored 1 goal from open play all tournament ?

I couldn’t see which England player would get in the French side. I’m not knocking England, they played bloody well, gave us all a run for our money, but that was our best shout for a final for many a tournament I think. That French side is good. Croatia were there for the taking first half against us but when you watch a game live you just get a feeling of what was to come and I just knew deep down at half time we were in trouble and odds were against us. We’d missed our opportunity in the first half.

I was absolutely gutted after the match, not because I thought we should have won, we shouldn’t, but because that was my last chance to see England in world final and we were 21 minutes away from that dream. After seeing the final yesterday live, that feeling is only stronger.

If only ..........

Lloris is getting on, pickford did well. Kane is better than giroud. Not even sure that amounts to a straw does it? My hope is on the kids but not gonna hold my breath.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

We say the kids, and they have been very successful but...

I may be wrong on this, but i suspect the achievements of the English youth teams may be somewhat inflated and have heard a few football 'insiders' say so in the media.

I'm not saying this is universal but at youth level there is still far too much emphasis on results. Even where this isn't explicit, it is still there and in the English youth game it leads to there being far too much emphasis on bigger players physically. It is rare to find an England player born in the summer- at one point the 'golden generation' had not a single player born after February. The bigger, earlier developers still rule in youth football more than they do in other countries, so I have heard and observed to a degree.

As a result, the English youth team players tend to be more physically developed and strong than their opponents, and are able to do well and currently dominate.. up until the age of 22-23 when all the players have more or less reached their full development, after which the English players suddenly look very ordinary.

I'm sure there must be people who are far more expert than me, but this is what I have heard/ read and nothing I have ever seen in education has led me to feel that the emphasis on older, bigger players isn't still true.

 

[Lienking]

I got back from Russia earlier today after going out on a one way ticket just before Sweden game, then stayed for the semi final. Before the semi I took a punt and bought tickets for the final - after we got beat I was so disappointed and wanted to come home but was convinced to stay by my mate who I went with & watched the final, skipping the playoff game in St Petersburg.

From being out there and watching the games live it was clear that this was more than likely the best and only chance we will have of reaching a final in my lifetime, and in all probability anyone over 30’s lifetime. We played much better than previous tournaments granted, but we have no game changer and there is no way the draw in any future world cups is going to open up like this one. At least one or two of Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Holland, Brazil is going to improve past us over the next 4yrs+ and we are going to be left further down the pecking order. I think I’m right in saying we only scored 1 goal from open play all tournament ?

I couldn’t see which England player would get in the French side. I’m not knocking England, they played bloody well, gave us all a run for our money, but that was our best shout for a final for many a tournament I think. That French side is good. Croatia were there for the taking first half against us but when you watch a game live you just get a feeling of what was to come and I just knew deep down at half time we were in trouble and odds were against us. We’d missed our opportunity in the first half.

I was absolutely gutted after the match, not because I thought we should have won, we shouldn’t, but because that was my last chance to see England in world final and we were 21 minutes away from that dream. After seeing the final yesterday live, that feeling is only stronger.

If only ..........

I'm a pessimist, and statistically we probably won't win the World Cup, but your view of the England team is rather a downer. In 8 years time, the bulk of our squad who will be in the 20-28 age range will currently be 12-20, and with the exception of Rashford probably not playing senior football. In 12 years time most of the players will come from the 8-16 age range, and will almost certainly be unheard of. Who knows what will happen. Even in 4 years time we will probably have at least half a dozen new players. We just need a couple of Ronaldo's, Messi's and Modric's to break through, and a bit of luck, as the best team rarely wins a cup competition!

 

[pebble]

We say the kids, and they have been very successful but...

I may be wrong on this, but i suspect the achievements of the English youth teams may be somewhat inflated and have heard a few football 'insiders' say so in the media.

I'm not saying this is universal but at youth level there is still far too much emphasis on results. Even where this isn't explicit, it is still there and in the English youth game it leads to there being far too much emphasis on bigger players physically. It is rare to find an England player born in the summer- at one point the 'golden generation' had not a single player born after February. The bigger, earlier developers still rule in youth football more than they do in other countries, so I have heard and observed to a degree.

As a result, the English youth team players tend to be more physically developed and strong than their opponents, and are able to do well and currently dominate.. up until the age of 22-23 when all the players have more or less reached their full development, after which the English players suddenly look very ordinary.

I'm sure there must be people who are far more expert than me, but this is what I have heard/ read and nothing I have ever seen in education has led me to feel that the emphasis on older, bigger players isn't still true.

From what I saw of the games where Appiah was playing for England, that's not true.

Other sides were just as likely to emphasise strength and height - Appiah himself is a nippy little winger not a hulk, and the young England sides seem to place an emphasis on good technique to control the ball, with a fair amount of flair and creativity.

I had nothing better to do in the baking heat so I watched the YouTube video of Malaga v Forest. Not the most exciting game, but notable that both teams, like most teams in the World Cup, played patient possession football.

Shuttle the ball left, right, try a probing forward pass, if it comes back at you start again. Both teams kept possession pretty well (maybe easier in a pre-season friendly, but players like Bridcutt and Osborn were tearing about as usual and it looked competitive enough).

While this can be very boring, it demands a decent skill level. All the defenders and midfielders, including the keeper, become used to passing the ball around accurately, and to controlling the pass quickly and playing the next one. As long as it's not compulsory a la Warburton - a defender put under pressure by a short pass should feel free to boot it downfield - it can work. Forest kept at it after looking second best for 30 minutes and scored three good goals.

Warburton had the right idea (a football philosophy and a way of playing) but forgot to start by organising a defence to keep clean sheets. Karanka has taken it on and we'll see how we go. But England have also joined the 21st century and our young players could be good enough to challenge Mbappe.

 

[Lienking]

Interesting as to whether developing players is a systems thing or pot luck. Brazil usually have a decent team because they have a high population and loads of players. No idea if they have decent development systems. The Netherlands have overperformed and people go on about their system, but this time they failed even to qualify. Croatia were at war till 1995 and only have 4 million people . Again is it pot luck they have so many talented players?

 

[mao tse tung]

Pope, I'm more commenting on the actions of the French player, with his blatant dive. It is ruining football. What has otherwise been a brilliant competition has been spoiled by the actions of players like this. It has become so common that commentators barely mention it at times. You see it in every game we watch and pundits even make excuses for it now. How many times do you hear them saying things like "he earned that", or "he was clever there", or even "well there was contact, he was entitled to go down". It makes me sick. No other sport in the world excuses cheating on the scale that football does. It's embarrassing and you're endorsing it when maKing excuses for it like you have just done.

Totally agree Hardy, but what happened during the WC was a carry over from what happened far too frequently in the PL and the other top leagues all last season.

One of the biggest offenders last season was Alli, who's antics bordered on the comical at times; so its not something we can call a foreign disease any more.

I would say there is a marked difference between a player going to ground expecting the hit and one who is just trying to con everybody.

In neither instance should a foul be given and the second instance should be rewarded with a card.

Start to use VAR to highlight the offenders, punish them accordingly and we might see a reduction.

 

[Apollyon]

Why they didnt consult the egg chasers ill never know. VAR is needed to progress the game. Cutting out the cheating will improve the quality for the fan and if done right, VAR will add to the entertainment. I know the purists will be up in arms but the game has been blighted by the antics of Alli, Young et al for far too long.

 

[Basha73]

Totally agree. In 4 weeks VAR has all but eliminated holding in the box. There is so much more it can do, particularly when combined with strong referees.

I only wish that the ref had booked Neymar when he was writhing around instead of just looking puzzled. Might have sent out a bit of a marker.

 

[Hardy Forest]

Totally agree Hardy, but what happened during the WC was a carry over from what happened far too frequently in the PL and the other top leagues all last season.

One of the biggest offenders last season was Alli, who's antics bordered on the comical at times; so its not something we can call a foreign disease any more.

I would say there is a marked difference between a player going to ground expecting the hit and one who is just trying to con everybody.

In neither instance should a foul be given and the second instance should be rewarded with a card.

Start to use VAR to highlight the offenders, punish them accordingly and we might see a reduction.

Totally agree Mau and I went on to clarify in a later post that we are every bit as bad as the foreign players. The antics in the PL are farcical at times.