Winks will be better than Carrick | Page 2 | Vital Football

Winks will be better than Carrick

80deg16minW - 25/1/2017 19:46

Real Deal - 25/1/2017 19:36

Agree EX, Winks has the ability to become even better. Winks is more adventurous than Carrick was or ever will be.

I think the one player Winks looks like most is Modric. His vision isn't there yet, but reckon with game time and experience he will be popping balls all over the pitch rather than just short passing.

Hmmmmm.....IMO vision is a natural talent not a learned one. I should add that it is not clear if he does or doesn't have it just yet.

Having good vision in football I'd say one needs a combination of being perceptive (literally having good vision and using your eyes), awareness and ability to read the game. Your ability to being tuned in to your environment, I'd agree is something natural. Or so it seems to me. However, your awareness of the positioning and movement of other players and ability to read the game is something that is honed through practice and experience. With someone like Pirlo, it always looked as if he could see two seconds into the future everywhere on the pitch at any time. I have hopes for Winks as well. i don't like saying anyone is "the new" insert name but he's a great prospect.
 
Great debate. I'm a massive fan of Carrick and would say that Winks still has so much to do in the game to match his achievements and even start to be be compared. I am chuffed that Poch cleared a path for Winks to impact the first team setup by clearing out guys like Mason and Carroll. Bentaleb is probably in the same bracket in that he'll go soon and then it is up to Winks to displace Dembele. When I first saw Winks I thought he was just like Carroll in that he was neat, intricate and likes the "total football" approach. What I saw in pre-season though was different though. He was charging around, putting his foot in and look quite aggressive for his stature and playing a lot deeper. He then went behind Wanyama and started to demand the ball from the centre halves. That got me excited about him in the same way I was excited about things I saw Bentaleb do when he first got a spell in the side. I've said this many times, but he's in very capable hands under Poch.
 
He's a very confident young lad and looks comfortable on and off the ball with good positioning and temperament.......hopefully he evolves into a Steve Perryman type than a Carrick...as Steve was loyal and Carrick chased the limelight with manure.
 
Greavswasthegreatest - 26/1/2017 17:31

He's a very confident young lad and looks comfortable on and off the ball with good positioning and temperament.......hopefully he evolves into a Steve Perryman type than a Carrick...as Steve was loyal and Carrick chased the limelight with manure.

Don't kid yourself that any of our players wouldn't go to Man Ure for a big pay day. Footballers aren't supporters. Most footballers only care about money, whilst a few of them would also like to win things. Unfortunately we don't pay the highest wages, and our record for winning trophies in the last decade isn't one to be proud of either.
 
Greavswasthegreatest - 26/1/2017 17:31

He's a very confident young lad and looks comfortable on and off the ball with good positioning and temperament.......hopefully he evolves into a Steve Perryman type than a Carrick...as Steve was loyal and Carrick chased the limelight with manure.

It would be great if he did follow in footsteps of Stevie P...what a team player!
 
Greavswasthegreatest - 26/1/2017 17:31

He's a very confident young lad and looks comfortable on and off the ball with good positioning and temperament.......hopefully he evolves into a Steve Perryman type than a Carrick...as Steve was loyal and Carrick chased the limelight with manure.

I suspect it was a no-brainer for Carrick; we didn't put up any sort of fight to keep him and sold him willingly (Jolly Jol was convinced that Zook was better!) And after signing for United, Carrick went on to win three consecutive league titles, two League Cups, the World Club Cup and scored in the penalty shoot out against Chelsea to help win the European Cup.

When he looks back at his career, do you think he'll ever have a thought about being 'disloyal' to Spurs (let's not forget we prised him away from the Spam)..
 
Spursex - 27/1/2017 13:27

Greavswasthegreatest - 26/1/2017 17:31

He's a very confident young lad and looks comfortable on and off the ball with good positioning and temperament.......hopefully he evolves into a Steve Perryman type than a Carrick...as Steve was loyal and Carrick chased the limelight with manure.

I suspect it was a no-brainer for Carrick; we didn't put up any sort of fight to keep him and sold him willingly (Jolly Jol was convinced that Zook was better!) And after signing for United, Carrick went on to win three consecutive league titles, two League Cups, the World Club Cup and scored in the penalty shoot out against Chelsea to help win the European Cup.

When he looks back at his career, do you think he'll ever have a thought about being 'disloyal' to Spurs (let's not forget we prised him away from the Spam)..

I always laugh when people moan about players being disloyal and things like why do they move when they're getting enough money already.

If you look back at the players we sold, the good and the top players I wonder how many trophies they have won since they moved on. I would assume it would be quite a lot. The money is great but most would want to look back on medals and trophies as well when its all said and done.

The current crop of players we have now is incredible and the team has been well built but imagine in 2 years time and we still havent won a major trophy, how long we some of these stick a round for. We need to start winning the big ones and this season we have a major chance with the league, FA cup and europa league. All winnable.
 
The two qualities needed for a good player is good footwork/ball control and good vision (being aware of where the ball is) as some are saying on here. I think the ball control and knowing when to pass etc needs to be more or less automatic and instinctive but coupled with moment to moment awareness of what everyone is doing on the pitch. That winning combination is what makes players like Carrick and Winks as good as they are. I think at this rate Wink is out to outdo Carrick. Although Carrick is an undoubtedly good player, for me he seemed to lack the bit of bite that people like Modric had. Modric would speed off and take on players in a way that Carrick didn't.

I think we missed Carrick early on and could have often done with a midfielder like him but now? I think we have better with Wanyama and Dembele and now Winks.

We've moved on. AND it's a nice position to be in.
 
The better question is....if Michael Carrick was at Spurs today, would he (1) get in the team AND (2) move to Utd if a similar offer came in. That's the position some of our current crop might find themselves in.
 
Taricco the yid - 27/1/2017 15:30

Spursex - 27/1/2017 13:27

Greavswasthegreatest - 26/1/2017 17:31

He's a very confident young lad and looks comfortable on and off the ball with good positioning and temperament.......hopefully he evolves into a Steve Perryman type than a Carrick...as Steve was loyal and Carrick chased the limelight with manure.

I suspect it was a no-brainer for Carrick; we didn't put up any sort of fight to keep him and sold him willingly (Jolly Jol was convinced that Zook was better!) And after signing for United, Carrick went on to win three consecutive league titles, two League Cups, the World Club Cup and scored in the penalty shoot out against Chelsea to help win the European Cup.

When he looks back at his career, do you think he'll ever have a thought about being 'disloyal' to Spurs (let's not forget we prised him away from the Spam)..

I always laugh when people moan about players being disloyal and things like why do they move when they're getting enough money already.

If you look back at the players we sold, the good and the top players I wonder how many trophies they have won since they moved on. I would assume it would be quite a lot. The money is great but most would want to look back on medals and trophies as well when its all said and done.

The current crop of players we have now is incredible and the team has been well built but imagine in 2 years time and we still havent won a major trophy, how long we some of these stick a round for. We need to start winning the big ones and this season we have a major chance with the league, FA cup and europa league. All winnable.


Apart from Sol eh he saw out his contract and then went to the arse and got loadsa silverwear..yet he has been the subject of hate from Spurs fans....to faced issue then
 
muttley - 27/1/2017 17:42

The better question is....if Michael Carrick was at Spurs today, would he (1) get in the team AND (2) move to Utd if a similar offer came in. That's the position some of our current crop might find themselves in.

I think Carrick would struggle with Poch's philosophy. He was never a run around all day type of player. A young Carrick would have qualities that this team needs. But I think Winks has them.

Like Taricco said, if we don't start winning trophies, our better players will more than likely want to leave. We pay pretty decent wages now, I'm sure within the next 1-2 years most of our best players will be on around the 100k a week mark. New stadium, new training ground, up to Levy and co to bring in better players now.

If we stand still which we did in the summer IMO for too long your best players will go.
 
The issue with Sol was simple; most knew he was too good for us to keep hold of and the talk was of him going to Barca or Real Madrid, he himself had said many times he couldn't ever cross North London...

Almost every Spurs fan I knew had accepted (begrudgingly) that he was going to move on to a club he was more likely to win top honours with..of course there was the normal shenanigans/assurances from him about signing a new deal when this one was done - but most realists knew that was nonsense....

...and then of course he joined le arse, given his earlier protestations and statements about never ever doing any such thing, it was a disgraceful about face and huge massive crap on the fans that had adored and believed his utterances on the subject.

He more than anyone knew the bitter rivalry between the fans; he better than anyone knew the animosity his move would create and what the ramifications of his decision would be (perhaps he didn't because he wasn't that bright?)...

Yes, this was the high water mark of treachery and disloyalty, if he'd joined any other club, the chances are the fans would have admired his ambition and most would have wished him all the best.

 
Harry's short pass game is on point and his general central awareness is very good for a player his age. Though Carrick's long field play and situational awareness was only bettered by Alonso.

In my eyes Harry plays far more like Modric. Takes the ball in, turns his marker, bursts into space before looking to thread a ball.
 
'RD' said it right, I think Carrick with today's setup, with Pochettino as boss etc and he'd struggle MAYBE with the pace, as someone else said, he was never one for running a lot. I think we have better players now and pace is an issue. Most of our players can place a ball around the pitch well so Carrick has no real advantage over anyone.
 
Mr Happy - 27/1/2017 17:57

Honestly, Carrick and Winks in the same breath, REALLY ?

Comparing players is fine. No one is saying he is better than carrick but he has the potential to be just as good. Nothing wrong with that sort of conversation.
 
Welshtel - 28/1/2017 12:18

'RD' said it right, I think Carrick with today's setup, with Pochettino as boss etc and he'd struggle MAYBE with the pace, as someone else said, he was never one for running a lot. I think we have better players now and pace is an issue. Most of our players can place a ball around the pitch well so Carrick has no real advantage over anyone.

At his best Carrick had a better tackle rate and a far better intercept rate than Wanyama, a stalwart in our side. A prime Carrick's passing put's him head and shoulders above everyone else in our team. There is a huge difference between releasing the ball first or second touch and holding it for 5-7 seconds. There is a huge difference between making the pass 5-6 times out of 10 and 8-9 times out of 10.

With a Carrick, Alonso, Pirlo style player, everything happens 5-10 times faster. You receive the ball in more space, you receive the ball at the correct speed and more perfectly weighted, you receive the ball out numbering your markers more often. For the offensive players the game is made far easier for you. Additionally when defending you don't have to worry about over committed midfielders and will likely always out number your opponents offense. Additionally they can no longer over commit as the likely hood of a counter attack is so much higher

Carricks loss to the team was far greater than people realise and was far harder to replace than that of Berbatov, Modric or Bale. With those players we lost a single facet to our game, be it goals or tempo/rhythm. With Carrick we lost tempo and defensive stability. Much like Liverpool did with Alonso. Both teams in experimentation had to source two players to make the same contribution to the team as the single player that left. For instance we had Modric/huddestone playing alongside either zokora or palacios, to replace the effect of just Carrick.

The major criticism of our play which is still being worked on, is that for about 60-70 percent of the time, we look quite pedestrian transitioning from defense to attack in our own half. When we play the high press and turn over possession in the oppositions half we terrorise teams. Though often we find ourselves allowing opposition to form up into tight banks when they lose possession. We have the offensive players in the correct positions at the start of the move, but the ball is often played around the back and is slowly brought forward, often at the defensive invitation of the opposition (Them being too busy getting back into position to bother hounding the ball around the half way line). Often if the opposition plays the high press we make a number of unforced errors.

Having a Carrick, Alonso or Pirlo in the team totally alleviates this. The ball gets to the offensive players in the very first seconds of the ball being turned over. You end of getting the same circumstances present themselves as you do when the ball has been won due to the high press.

Most prem players can pass the ball around, very few know where the balls going to go 10 seconds before it goes there, with the accuracy that is needed.