White lives matter - n/g | Page 13 | Vital Football

White lives matter - n/g

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
BLM is badly named for its current searching for a direction.
BLM was and should still be about the criminal and legal system in the USA which needs changing ASAP and for that BLM is the correct slogan.

In the uk we do not have as critical a problem but to cover what we do have we could instantly enact the Lammy report on criminal justice system as a bill. It would benefit all citizens.

People who feel that they have inequality due to their race have latched onto the BLM movement to try to improve things. This is where the issue comes around the naming. People need to try to ignore the name and agree that inequality is wrong and work out ways to improve the lot of all.

The way that the media and organisations have jumped onto the bandwagon for their own aims has annoyed some people as they have joined in with the black or bame good, white privileged ex slavers ex colonisers = bad narrative. Trying to change history and perceived hatred does not help to bring us all together.

It has given the racists license to divide the people by twisting the aims of the (badly named) BLM.
It has helped with their fascist nationalist message as they target annoyed white people who also feel left behind (even though they have been living off the riches of colonialism lol).

The majority have always been underprivileged, its nothing to do with race. If people want to side with their underprivileged identity against other underprivileged identities then we all sink together.
Teach all bame (non white) history but also teach the history of the impoverished British serfs, agricultural workers and industrial working classes including the slavery, poverty, starvation and lack of political voices .

Join together, work to bring in policies to improve the lot of all. Otherwise enjoy dancing on your strings and enhancing your hatred.
Whichever side you are on in this, the rulers of man still win.
 

Buddha

Vital 1st Team Regular
BLM is badly named for its current searching for a direction.
BLM was and should still be about the criminal and legal system in the USA which needs changing ASAP and for that BLM is the correct slogan.

In the uk we do not have as critical a problem but to cover what we do have we could instantly enact the Lammy report on criminal justice system as a bill. It would benefit all citizens.

People who feel that they have inequality due to their race have latched onto the BLM movement to try to improve things. This is where the issue comes around the naming. People need to try to ignore the name and agree that inequality is wrong and work out ways to improve the lot of all.

The way that the media and organisations have jumped onto the bandwagon for their own aims has annoyed some people as they have joined in with the black or bame good, white privileged ex slavers ex colonisers = bad narrative. Trying to change history and perceived hatred does not help to bring us all together.

It has given the racists license to divide the people by twisting the aims of the (badly named) BLM.
It has helped with their fascist nationalist message as they target annoyed white people who also feel left behind (even though they have been living off the riches of colonialism lol).

The majority have always been underprivileged, its nothing to do with race. If people want to side with their underprivileged identity against other underprivileged identities then we all sink together.
Teach all bame (non white) history but also teach the history of the impoverished British serfs, agricultural workers and industrial working classes including the slavery, poverty, starvation and lack of political voices .

Join together, work to bring in policies to improve the lot of all. Otherwise enjoy dancing on your strings and enhancing your hatred.
Whichever side you are on in this, the rulers of man still win.
That's a great analysis and post, jerry. I agree with everything you've said there.
 

Buddha

Vital 1st Team Regular
I mean, you have LITERALLY just explained why YOU got disproportionately watched whilst in shops, so yes, I suppose I do.

And please stop saying BAME. It is Black lives that matter. No one has said BAME lives matter (or is this another thing that should be "implied" by BLM?).
I got watched because the security guards made assumptions based upon my appearance and their prejudices. I may have been wearing para boots, combat trousers, hoody and bomber jacket, and I may have had dreadlocks, but I wasn't a shoplifter. The assumption was that I probably would be because of what I looked like.

Loads of black people experience this same prejudice. They get followed and watched in shops because assumptions are made based prejudices regarding their race.

It wasn't fair that I got followed and was made to feel like I'd done something wrong when I hadn't. Same is true for black people who experience this. But, as I said before, they can't change their appearance so easily. For them it is doubly unfair.
 

GillsBluenose

Vital 1st Team Regular
Teach all bame (non white) history but also teach the history of the impoverished British serfs, agricultural workers and industrial working classes including the slavery, poverty, starvation and lack of political voices .
Join together, work to bring in policies to improve the lot of all.
Precisely. Perhaps start by finding out how many workers were killed in the building of the great railways, bridges, tunnels and other huge infrastructure projects designed by the likes of Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

I am not aware that he used slaves, as such, or just black men but many had the choice of working or starving so it was Hobson's choice, really.

How many lives "mattered" in those days, white or black, if you were poor or lacking education?
 

Buddha

Vital 1st Team Regular
Precisely. Perhaps start by finding out how many workers were killed in the building of the great railways, bridges, tunnels and other huge infrastructure projects designed by the likes of Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

I am not aware that he used slaves, as such, or just black men but many had the choice of working or starving so it was Hobson's choice, really.

How many lives "mattered" in those days, white or black, if you were poor or lacking education?
Now we're starting to get somewhere!

All oppressed and exploited peoples should join together to liberate humanity. We have nothing to lose but our chains!

New slogan: Oppressors Lives Don't Matter, Freedom and Equality Now!
 

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
Precisely. Perhaps start by finding out how many workers were killed in the building of the great railways, bridges, tunnels and other huge infrastructure projects designed by the likes of Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

I am not aware that he used slaves, as such, or just black men but many had the choice of working or starving so it was Hobson's choice, really.

How many lives "mattered" in those days, white or black, if you were poor or lacking education?
You are talking about wage slavery.
During different invasions many britons were made into slaves and many times taken to other countries.
As serfs you were not allowed to move between estates and owned by your master. The first night with your bride was offered to your lord.
Our history contains famine, oppression, child labour inc sex slaves, enforced prostitution, torture, deportation, hanging of children, etc.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
This is no unknown unimportant person. This is a university teacher who is presumably teaching such views to her students?
Unknown unimportant twitterati making stupid remarks. Unrepresentative of mainstream argument being retweeted by others to divide.
Same as the division mongers latching onto white power (sorry white lives matter) rubish.
 

Baghdad_Rob

Vital Squad Member
I got watched because the security guards made assumptions based upon my appearance and their prejudices.
When I was a student I had long hair and so I tended to get watched by security quite a bit when shopping. There was this one time when I hadn't found what I wanted so was just heading toward the tills with the intention to leave when the security guard stopped me and asked me if I had paid for everything. I was wearing a tight t-shirt and a pair of jeans I had put on that morning so were still tight so it would have been pretty obvious I hadn't slipped something in a pocket.

I commented that I wasn't even at the tills so wasn't even in a position to pay and that he should wait to see if a person actually goes through the tills without paying before challenging. I then loudly asked what he thought I had taken and if he thought I had stuffed a frozen turkey down my pants. He then noticed that some of the customers queuing were watching and muttered something while he backed away.

I never did go back to that store and knowing someone who was a manager in one of the stores in Gillingham I reported it to them. Apparently the store had issues with long haired student stealing stuff and so I got an third party apology for the security being slightly too agressive.

I bet a lot more people get watched for their appearance who are not black than what you think. I suspect people who were punks probably got their fair share of attention from security. I bet a number of bald people were confused with skin heads and were probably watched. And I bet most skinheads weren't actually going into store to shoplift or cause trouble. I wonder how many men who were into the likes of the Human League were probably watched due to the make up.
 

LockdownLife

Vital Youth Team
At Tesco we can predict with a pretty high accuracy who are going to be the rubbish shoplifters. I'm sure a whole load more get away with it, probably more than we catch.

For the rubbish ones you can do it on their demeanour, body language and to some extent clothes. You can do it on their physical appearance; hair and skin (quality not colour or anything like that).

How people hold their bags is a huge give away too.

Our customers are split 50/50 between black and white but the shoplifters are about 90% white. It's probably about that ratio we keep a close eye on too.
 

ThreeSixes

Vital 1st Team Regular
At Tesco we can predict with a pretty high accuracy who are going to be the rubbish shoplifters. I'm sure a whole load more get away with it, probably more than we catch.

For the rubbish ones you can do it on their demeanour, body language and to some extent clothes. You can do it on their physical appearance; hair and skin (quality not colour or anything like that).

How people hold their bags is a huge give away too.

Our customers are split 50/50 between black and white but the shoplifters are about 90% white. It's probably about that ratio we keep a close eye on too.
Thank you. It's good to hear actual facts from someone that knows, rather than guesses
 

Gills 58

Vital 1st Team Regular
You are talking about wage slavery.
During different invasions many britons were made into slaves and many times taken to other countries.
As serfs you were not allowed to move between estates and owned by your master. The first night with your bride was offered to your lord.
Our history contains famine, oppression, child labour inc sex slaves, enforced prostitution, torture, deportation, hanging of children, etc.
Ah, the good old days (apparently).
 

valenciagill

Vital 1st Team Regular
I'm not sure there's anyone on here that hasn't met a stroppy policeman in their lives.
Especially when you are younger.
I've lived here almost 20 years , and have only met one cop that has acted a bit too heavy. Even he mellowed out , when I spoke to him politely.
Some people just don't help themselves.
Manners and respect cost nothing.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
Ah, the good old days (apparently).
One of the problems with teaching history fully is that a) it would take up so much syllabus time and b) generally school kids (unless they have a good teacher) tend to get bored with it but take it up more once they have left school.
Or is that too simplistic?
 

Nobby_66

Vital 1st Team Regular
Tarian you said

Individuals object to being :
a) made to feel guilty

At that point I agreed with you wholeheartedly and I think it's the key. Foreget your qualifications for a moment and I'll avoid objecting to quite a bit else you said. Not only do people feel very uncomfortable feeling guilty it's not a very good way of trying to win them over. Sometimes that tactic makes me feel uncomfortable too.

The thing is another group of people are made to feel uncomfortable a lot more of the time than you and I and are made to feel even more uncomfortable when they speak up. You talk of the law as a solution but it's blunt and very limited and causes resentment when it's used, or even hinted at being used.

I am not aware of anyone suggesting we all feel individual guilt and responsibility for slavery but its history defined the way black people are seen and sometimes the way they interact with white people. I could write a very long post about how that history affected the way societies developed in our old colonies and how that has gone on to affect generations that followed. It would be quite tedious and you would be tapping before you had finished reading it.

I confess a personal stake in the matter, which makes it more real to me. You need to talk to some different people and try to imagine yourself in their place if you really want to understand what we are on about. I abhor tax funded freeloading and have never felt inclined to create disruption over this issue. Disruption for the sheer hell of it now and again yes but this subject is too serious for that.
The whole "silence is violence" statement suggests that if you say nothing (either way) on the subject, you are part of the problem, or even worse, a racist.
This I object to. I won't take a knee, I won't protest or march on behalf of BLM. I agree with the movement and I agree with the sentiment but I will not apologise for the failings of others and I will not apologise for being born white, as a certain American police chief did last week.
I will live my life as I always have by treating all fairly and let my actions speak for themselves. That is surely a better way to "do our bit" against racism than any empty gesture displayed just because it is expected?
 

Nobby_66

Vital 1st Team Regular
I know exactly what it's like to be followed around a shop because of what you look like. It doesn't happen to me anymore because I dress far more conservatively than I used to. Years ago in my youth I wore the crusty traveller 'anti-uniform'. It was youthful naivety. Nowadays I don't particularly stand out.

But back then I did, and security guards would regularly follow me around shops. It used to make me laugh and if I was bored I'd play games with them, picking things up and putting them in my pockets walk about a bit and then go and return the things to the shelf I'd found them on. I used to hope that whilst the prejudiced security guard was wasting his time on me, someone else might be able to get themselves a five-finger discount. Would serve the company right for employing a security guard who decided to follow me just because of what I looked like!

All I had to do to stop this from happening was change my appearance. Do you doubt that BAME people get disproportionately 'watched' whilst in shops? Want can they do to remedy this prejudice and injustice, change their skin colour?!
I know what you mean Buddha. I have a preconceived idea of what you look like, is this close?
FB_IMG_1593118477874.jpg
 

Nobby_66

Vital 1st Team Regular
I got watched because the security guards made assumptions based upon my appearance and their prejudices. I may have been wearing para boots, combat trousers, hoody and bomber jacket, and I may have had dreadlocks, but I wasn't a shoplifter. The assumption was that I probably would be because of what I looked like.

Loads of black people experience this same prejudice. They get followed and watched in shops because assumptions are made based prejudices regarding their race.

It wasn't fair that I got followed and was made to feel like I'd done something wrong when I hadn't. Same is true for black people who experience this. But, as I said before, they can't change their appearance so easily. For them it is doubly unfair.
I get judged because of how I look too, people see my uniform and assume I'm a c*** 😁😁😁😁😁