Where to start ? | Page 3 | Vital Football

Where to start ?

Not many of them and not many home supporters who whinge about on the day gate costs ( £15 today)
Just over 400 from Reading today. 8800 Latics fans. Two home games in the week doesnt help much. Decent price today too. £25 against Blackburn on Wednesday who may just bring 2000 at best so be lucky if theres 11000 there to watch dross like today.
 
Don't get all this Morsy bashing...he did ok apart from 1 daft pass but others were truly awful. When Gibson plays Sam looks half the player as when Evans plays. Thing is with Darren is that he ball watches and allows their lads behind him.

Also that 6 year old they had in midfield looked a tidy player.
 
I think one of the most fitting comment I've read so far is from Jeff saying one of our worst performance was from Paul Cook. Tactics, team selection, subs and the time wasting were very disappointing in what will be the easiest three points we couldve had all season.

First half we looked ok - i fear most of it was Reading being quite poor but fair play to our lads as Preston and Millwall were poor but we were so much worse we got battered by both. We were comfortably the better side, even though it wasn't great it felt like a small step in the right direction as we were trying to play out the back a little more again and not going as long. But in the second half when we needed to step up a gear as the clock ticked down we started to take our foot off the gas more and instead of trying to throw the kitchen sink at them we held on for a draw.

We've moved into a 4-4-2 reccently and are playing it very poorly. When we played the old 4-2-3-1 it gave us almost 4 layers and allowed us to play in between the lines easier both offensively and defensively not we've only got three layers and we play that midfield so narrow and flat we are getting easily played through both the middle and out wide and struggling to play out. You can play 4-4-2 very effectivly if you do it right but what we are doing isnt. It's like Cook has been replaced by Warren Joyce - I've been shocked at how he's managed us recently, it's been so negative. I know there are injuries and while they certainly dont help there have been serious issues with how we've approached games. I'm finding it hard not to start asking questions of Cook. I'd like to think he showed his quality in the early games and we'll bounce back but what we are seeing now is unrecognisable and it's hard to reconcile such a deterioration. Today was a day to put down a marker and kick start our season again and Cook ended up playing for a draw against a team there for the taking. That is not who i thought Paul Cook was and I'm very disappointed to see it from him.

Cook was giving Walton the thumbs up for his time wasting at the end and the fans were going mad so he was following instructions. In his post match Cook said he knows fans are frustrated we didn't go for it in the final stages, throw McMannnaman on and try and win but the time to win games will come again soon. I was quite taken back by that comment as this was as good as a home banker, must win, relegation 6 pointer as we will get all season and the easiest game we've had in months - if this wasn't a game to try and push for 3 points I don't know what is! He talked about stopping the rot but this disappointing result and cowardly playing for a 0-0 at home against a poor side who were vulnerable is keeping the rot going as far as I can see.

I normally don't advocate booing (but would never tell anyone they don't have the right to do it) as I don't think it helps. But they deserved booing off for the complete lack of passion, urgency and negative approach in the final stages in a crucial game for us. We started the season fearless willing to swing for the fences and our bravery was rewarded now we have become Joyce-esq were a goalless draw to one of the worst sides in the division is the limit of our ambition.

If we go all out for the win and cant get the 3 points fair enough you are gutted but you gave it your all and can't moan I much. Today we didnt give it everything we had - we took our reccently aquired cowardice to a new level. In the relegation battle we've dragged ourselves into you need intensity and urgency in your team and players to step up and take responsibility and you need your manager to be brave and bold - both players and manager failed to do that. Quite frankly it was disgraceful given the circumstances.

Individually:
Walton made a couple of decent saves but he refuses to release the ball quickly and kills all chances of us breaking. It's an opponents dream.

Burn and Kipre did fine but was rather straight forward for them. Hopefully the clean sheet will give them some confidence back.

James was his usual excellent sel. I think that a few of our lads give him the ball now expecting him to take responsibility as he always does when they don't want it.

Naismith did really well going forward but he didnt have to do much defending where he is so suspect so he had a largely easy afternoon. But he put in some superb crosses that should've been converted so he deserves some credit after some deserved criticism lately.

Morsy certainly wasn't at his best but he was dropping back deep like he used to and it allowed us to play out a little more. Also glad to see him starting to drive us on towards the end and trying to take some responsibility. We desperetly need the old Samy back and we saw few glimpses of it but need more.

Gibson is too slow to close down player, too immobile to make himself available for a pass plays so many bad blind passes that squander a great chance or put us in danger. We need the 2 def mids being water carriers and he stands still and just points most of the time rather than actually making himself useful. He's been at fault for 2 goals in our last 2 games and we always look worse with him in instead of Evans. It's a joke he starts ahead of Evans if he is fit and available. Gibson had a good debut against Sheffield Wednesday and one or two decent sub appearances early on and has been crap the rest of the time - I can see why Sunderland didn't rate him. I'd give MacDonald a game before i picked him again.

Connelly is utterly garbage and the choice to bring him on was beggars belief (I suspect a clause could be in his contract). Send him back in January if possible. Both Connelly and Gibson are no better than Power who we let go - in fact I'd say they are both much worse.

Nathan Byrne is simply not a winger, he might have played there in the past but he's clearly not suited to it. He's a great attacking full back with the energy to get up and down and is good at making the most of the extra space advancing right backs are afforded without having a direct marker. But as a winger he has to go head to head with the full back and while he is very tidy in possession and works hard he's just not got the skill to beat his man in one on ones or the attacking instincts to get goals and assists. He looks every bit as full back out of position despite his best efforts. It's not right McMannnaman is not even getting on as a sub but we are using Byrne out of position (even if Nathan says he's a winger). That game was crying out for McMannnaman and again Cook won't give him a chance - he's our best chance of a match winner and we bring on anyone but him. Cook is cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Roberts gives you what he's got but he's not up to being a regular at this level. I think in his prime he could've been a good player at this level but it's hard to make the step up when your legs have already started to fade.

Windass complained he couldn't play on the wing after being so poor there - but since he went down the middle he's overall not been much better. He had the West Brom game where he looked good but has been varying degrees of poor otherwise. I know we don't exactly play to his strengths but I'm not sure his strengths are that strong tbh. He doesn't look anything like a player worth 2.5m. Rangers robbed us blind.

Powell up front has become something of a necessity since we keep going long and none of our other strikers can head or hold up a ball. But he's much more effective playing deeper and creating. I'm not sure if he's carrying knocks but he's a shadow of the player who was ripping up trees a few months ago. He seems to have lost his pace and mobility like he's afraid to fully sprint for fear of a hamstring going or something. I cant remember him having a good game in a while and we are redicolously over dependent on him.

I've been very underwhelmed with Garner, he is marginally better at getting up for headers than our other out and out strikers but he's just too small to be an effective target man. All he ever seems to do is get in confrontations, you appreciate he's trying to be combative but it comes across more petulant.

I didnt see any point bringing on both Garner and Grigg as we had stopped creating chances and neither was going to create a chance for themselves. We took of Roberts and Powell who were more likely to create than finish chances and replaced them with finishers who need service to score but wouldn't get any.

One thing thats been annoying me for a while that i feel is growing into an issue is our throwins and it was really obvious again today. Every time the opposition take a throw we are so casual we stand way back and give them time and space to comfortably play the ball out. But when we had a throw no one was showing for it, no one wanted responsibility. It got us in trouble a few times again and it will cost us if we don't sort it out. Reading were marking us and making it tricky and we need to be doing that.
 
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Cédric Kipre played alright, but he had at least three opportunities to score, completely unmarked and with a bit more composure he himself could have wrapped up the 3 points and put a bow on it.

Paul Cook continues to persist with Darron Gibson. I'll have to get over and accept it, because he isn't going away. He's not expansive enough, doesn't get about the opposition, I don't see him inducing good performances out of other players by in game coaching. I'm baffled by it.

Windass - Get over not being at Rangers and get your head down and play. He's got the odd good touch here and there but he swept a left footed effort a bit too close to the 'keeper and shanked another opportunity well wide.

Powell - Clearly not yet match fit. Give it a couple of weeks.

Garner - The ball is not the centre halves. It's the ball. Win that.

Byrne - Head up, observe, cross early to the back of the defence. If not on, get at someone. If not in final third, play it simple. Cut in now and again to open up space for -

James - Best player we've had here in years. Best full back outside the Prem.

Naismith - if we go to a back 3, he's a good shout as a wing back. Did okay.

Burn, Connolly - Sorry to say this but it is time to return to your parent clubs and have a good look in the mirror. It isn't working.


Cook - We all like you, but you're stretching our patience with these negative tactics and strategies, odd team selections and time wasting. Time wasting! Come on lad, get the bloody shackles off!
 
Don't get all this Morsy bashing...he did ok apart from 1 daft pass but others were truly awful. When Gibson plays Sam looks half the player as when Evans plays. Thing is with Darren is that he ball watches and allows their lads behind him.

Also that 6 year old they had in midfield looked a tidy player.

Last season Morsy dominated the middle of the field in almost every match he played but it's not happening in this league because he's up against much better (and considerably quicker) players. He got frustrated yesterday and I feared that he would do something rash and see red.
 
I think one of the most fitting comment I've read so far is from Jeff saying one of our worst performance was from Paul Cook. Tactics, team selection, subs and the time wasting were very disappointing in what will be the easiest three points we couldve had all season.

First half we looked ok - i fear most of it was Reading being quite poor but fair play to our lads as Preston and Millwall were poor but we were so much worse we got battered by both. We were comfortably the better side, even though it wasn't great it felt like a small step in the right direction as we were trying to play out the back a little more again and not going as long. But in the second half when we needed to step up a gear as the clock ticked down we started to take our foot off the gas more and instead of trying to throw the kitchen sink at them we held on for a draw.

We've moved into a 4-4-2 reccently and are playing it very poorly. When we played the old 4-2-3-1 it gave us almost 4 layers and allowed us to play in between the lines easier both offensively and defensively not we've only got three layers and we play that midfield so narrow and flat we are getting easily played through both the middle and out wide and struggling to play out. You can play 4-4-2 very effectivly if you do it right but what we are doing isnt. It's like Cook has been replaced by Warren Joyce - I've been shocked at how he's managed us recently, it's been so negative. I know there are injuries and while they certainly dont help there have been serious issues with how we've approached games. I'm finding it hard not to start asking questions of Cook. I'd like to think he showed his quality in the early games and we'll bounce back but what we are seeing now is unrecognisable and it's hard to reconcile such a deterioration. Today was a day to put down a marker and kick start our season again and Cook ended up playing for a draw against a team there for the taking. That is not who i thought Paul Cook was and I'm very disappointed to see it from him.

Cook was giving Walton the thumbs up for his time wasting at the end and the fans were going mad so he was following instructions. In his post match Cook said he knows fans are frustrated we didn't go for it in the final stages, throw McMannnaman on and try and win but the time to win games will come again soon. I was quite taken back by that comment as this was as good as a home banker, must win, relegation 6 pointer as we will get all season and the easiest game we've had in months - if this wasn't a game to try and push for 3 points I don't know what is! He talked about stopping the rot but this disappointing result and cowardly playing for a 0-0 at home against a poor side who were vulnerable is keeping the rot going as far as I can see.

I normally don't advocate booing (but would never tell anyone they don't have the right to do it) as I don't think it helps. But they deserved booing off for the complete lack of passion, urgency and negative approach in the final stages in a crucial game for us. We started the season fearless willing to swing for the fences and our bravery was rewarded now we have become Joyce-esq were a goalless draw to one of the worst sides in the division is the limit of our ambition.

If we go all out for the win and cant get the 3 points fair enough you are gutted but you gave it your all and can't moan I much. Today we didnt give it everything we had - we took our reccently aquired cowardice to a new level. In the relegation battle we've dragged ourselves into you need intensity and urgency in your team and players to step up and take responsibility and you need your manager to be brave and bold - both players and manager failed to do that. Quite frankly it was disgraceful given the circumstances.

Individually:
Walton made a couple of decent saves but he refuses to release the ball quickly and kills all chances of us breaking. It's an opponents dream.

Burn and Kipre did fine but was rather straight forward for them. Hopefully the clean sheet will give them some confidence back.

James was his usual excellent sel. I think that a few of our lads give him the ball now expecting him to take responsibility as he always does when they don't want it.

Naismith did really well going forward but he didnt have to do much defending where he is so suspect so he had a largely easy afternoon. But he put in some superb crosses that should've been converted so he deserves some credit after some deserved criticism lately.

Morsy certainly wasn't at his best but he was dropping back deep like he used to and it allowed us to play out a little more. Also glad to see him starting to drive us on towards the end and trying to take some responsibility. We desperetly need the old Samy back and we saw few glimpses of it but need more.

Gibson is too slow to close down player, too immobile to make himself available for a pass plays so many bad blind passes that squander a great chance or put us in danger. We need the 2 def mids being water carriers and he stands still and just points most of the time rather than actually making himself useful. He's been at fault for 2 goals in our last 2 games and we always look worse with him in instead of Evans. It's a joke he starts ahead of Evans if he is fit and available. Gibson had a good debut against Sheffield Wednesday and one or two decent sub appearances early on and has been crap the rest of the time - I can see why Sunderland didn't rate him. I'd give MacDonald a game before i picked him again.

Connelly is utterly garbage and the choice to bring him on was beggars belief (I suspect a clause could be in his contract). Send him back in January if possible. Both Connelly and Gibson are no better than Power who we let go - in fact I'd say they are both much worse.

Nathan Byrne is simply not a winger, he might have played there in the past but he's clearly not suited to it. He's a great attacking full back with the energy to get up and down and is good at making the most of the extra space advancing right backs are afforded without having a direct marker. But as a winger he has to go head to head with the full back and while he is very tidy in possession and works hard he's just not got the skill to beat his man in one on ones or the attacking instincts to get goals and assists. He looks every bit as full back out of position despite his best efforts. It's not right McMannnaman is not even getting on as a sub but we are using Byrne out of position (even if Nathan says he's a winger). That game was crying out for McMannnaman and again Cook won't give him a chance - he's our best chance of a match winner and we bring on anyone but him. Cook is cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Roberts gives you what he's got but he's not up to being a regular at this level. I think in his prime he could've been a good player at this level but it's hard to make the step up when your legs have already started to fade.

Windass complained he couldn't play on the wing after being so poor there - but since he went down the middle he's overall not been much better. He had the West Brom game where he looked good but has been varying degrees of poor otherwise. I know we don't exactly play to his strengths but I'm not sure his strengths are that strong tbh. He doesn't look anything like a player worth 2.5m. Rangers robbed us blind.

Powell up front has become something of a necessity since we keep going long and none of our other strikers can head or hold up a ball. But he's much more effective playing deeper and creating. I'm not sure if he's carrying knocks but he's a shadow of the player who was ripping up trees a few months ago. He seems to have lost his pace and mobility like he's afraid to fully sprint for fear of a hamstring going or something. I cant remember him having a good game in a while and we are redicolously over dependent on him.

I've been very underwhelmed with Garner, he is marginally better at getting up for headers than our other out and out strikers but he's just too small to be an effective target man. All he ever seems to do is get in confrontations, you appreciate he's trying to be combative but it comes across more petulant.

I didnt see any point bringing on both Garner and Grigg as we had stopped creating chances and neither was going to create a chance for themselves. We took of Roberts and Powell who were more likely to create than finish chances and replaced them with finishers who need service to score but wouldn't get any.

One thing thats been annoying me for a while that i feel is growing into an issue is our throwins and it was really obvious again today. Every time the opposition take a throw we are so casual we stand way back and give them time and space to comfortably play the ball out. But when we had a throw no one was showing for it, no one wanted responsibility. It got us in trouble a few times again and it will cost us if we don't sort it out. Reading were marking us and making it tricky and we need to be doing that.
some one who clearly knows about football
 
King - excellent well considered post.

Yesterday was disappointing for so many reasons and on so many levels. Pre international break it was a very difficult run of fixtures and the break was an ideal time to allow a period of reflection and re set. The next group of fixtures were/are absolutely crucial to pick up points against direct rivals and effectively move out of the relegation picture. One game into that run and sadly the tone has been set. You made a pertinent point about instead of stopping the rot we've added to it.

In Cooks defence we've been ravished by injuries, compounded by the one to Robinson. Sadly the poor use of available funds in the summer is now beginning to haunt us, we are bereft of any strength in depth. Of course he needs to accept his share of responsibility for that. Thankfully Sharpe has departed given his track record in January windows so it gives me some optimism the Royles should have a little more understanding and nous about what's required in a player and use any funds wisely. However this timid approach is something Cook can address. Has he reached his limitations? I hope not. Whatever the issue with mcmanaman it needs sorting or explaining. The Bolton, Ipswich and Birmingham games are very winnable and the approach and intent in those fixtures needs to be much better than we endured yesterday.
 
Last season Morsy dominated the middle of the field in almost every match he played but it's not happening in this league because he's up against much better (and considerably quicker) players. He got frustrated yesterday and I feared that he would do something rash and see red.

Of course he is up against better opposition but when Darren plays he gets exposed more because he is having to sit deeper to compensate for this failing from Gibson. Strangely there could be an argument to play all 3 ( Morsy, Gibson and Evans ) which would allow Sam to push 20 yards forward.

On the subject of 20 yards forward what the he'll has happened to the fabled high pressing game ?... we are going deeper and deeper like the bad old days highlighted by our laughable attempts to retain possession at our own throw ins. The opposition press us in the knowledge they will get the ball back in bloody seconds.
 
Of course he is up against better opposition but when Darren plays he gets exposed more because he is having to sit deeper to compensate for this failing from Gibson. Strangely there could be an argument to play all 3 ( Morsy, Gibson and Evans ) which would allow Sam to push 20 yards forward.

On the subject of 20 yards forward what the he'll has happened to the fabled high pressing game ?... we are going deeper and deeper like the bad old days highlighted by our laughable attempts to retain possession at our own throw ins. The opposition press us in the knowledge they will get the ball back in bloody seconds.
Could play all three if Morsy played in attacking midfielder rather than Windass but Powell should be playing there and needs to be there on Wednesday. If he is injured yet again then try Morsy there just as long as Connoly is not used in his place.
 
hindleymonwafc said:
Don't get all this Morsy bashing...he did ok apart from 1 daft pass but others were truly awful. When Gibson plays Sam looks half the player as when Evans plays. Thing is with Darren is that he ball watches and allows their lads behind him

Last season Morsy dominated the middle of the field in almost every match he played but it's not happening in this league because he's up against much better (and considerably quicker) players. He got frustrated yesterday and I feared that he would do something rash and see red.

i think your both rite on this. last year was a good un for morsey cos of the level of league we were in. but. i dont think hes gone bad now cos of the standard of pleyers hes up agenst. i see it as his supporting midfeeld are (maybe) the ones who are not hacking it at this level and its dragging his preformance down a bit.. as they say. messi couldnt score if hes getting the support of a chorley fc midfeeld. are midfeeld needs to step up.
 
I think one of the most fitting comment I've read so far is from Jeff saying one of our worst performance was from Paul Cook. Tactics, team selection, subs and the time wasting were very disappointing in what will be the easiest three points we couldve had all season.

First half we looked ok - i fear most of it was Reading being quite poor but fair play to our lads as Preston and Millwall were poor but we were so much worse we got battered by both. We were comfortably the better side, even though it wasn't great it felt like a small step in the right direction as we were trying to play out the back a little more again and not going as long. But in the second half when we needed to step up a gear as the clock ticked down we started to take our foot off the gas more and instead of trying to throw the kitchen sink at them we held on for a draw.

We've moved into a 4-4-2 reccently and are playing it very poorly. When we played the old 4-2-3-1 it gave us almost 4 layers and allowed us to play in between the lines easier both offensively and defensively not we've only got three layers and we play that midfield so narrow and flat we are getting easily played through both the middle and out wide and struggling to play out. You can play 4-4-2 very effectivly if you do it right but what we are doing isnt. It's like Cook has been replaced by Warren Joyce - I've been shocked at how he's managed us recently, it's been so negative. I know there are injuries and while they certainly dont help there have been serious issues with how we've approached games. I'm finding it hard not to start asking questions of Cook. I'd like to think he showed his quality in the early games and we'll bounce back but what we are seeing now is unrecognisable and it's hard to reconcile such a deterioration. Today was a day to put down a marker and kick start our season again and Cook ended up playing for a draw against a team there for the taking. That is not who i thought Paul Cook was and I'm very disappointed to see it from him.

Cook was giving Walton the thumbs up for his time wasting at the end and the fans were going mad so he was following instructions. In his post match Cook said he knows fans are frustrated we didn't go for it in the final stages, throw McMannnaman on and try and win but the time to win games will come again soon. I was quite taken back by that comment as this was as good as a home banker, must win, relegation 6 pointer as we will get all season and the easiest game we've had in months - if this wasn't a game to try and push for 3 points I don't know what is! He talked about stopping the rot but this disappointing result and cowardly playing for a 0-0 at home against a poor side who were vulnerable is keeping the rot going as far as I can see.

I normally don't advocate booing (but would never tell anyone they don't have the right to do it) as I don't think it helps. But they deserved booing off for the complete lack of passion, urgency and negative approach in the final stages in a crucial game for us. We started the season fearless willing to swing for the fences and our bravery was rewarded now we have become Joyce-esq were a goalless draw to one of the worst sides in the division is the limit of our ambition.

If we go all out for the win and cant get the 3 points fair enough you are gutted but you gave it your all and can't moan I much. Today we didnt give it everything we had - we took our reccently aquired cowardice to a new level. In the relegation battle we've dragged ourselves into you need intensity and urgency in your team and players to step up and take responsibility and you need your manager to be brave and bold - both players and manager failed to do that. Quite frankly it was disgraceful given the circumstances.

Individually:
Walton made a couple of decent saves but he refuses to release the ball quickly and kills all chances of us breaking. It's an opponents dream.

Burn and Kipre did fine but was rather straight forward for them. Hopefully the clean sheet will give them some confidence back.

James was his usual excellent sel. I think that a few of our lads give him the ball now expecting him to take responsibility as he always does when they don't want it.

Naismith did really well going forward but he didnt have to do much defending where he is so suspect so he had a largely easy afternoon. But he put in some superb crosses that should've been converted so he deserves some credit after some deserved criticism lately.

Morsy certainly wasn't at his best but he was dropping back deep like he used to and it allowed us to play out a little more. Also glad to see him starting to drive us on towards the end and trying to take some responsibility. We desperetly need the old Samy back and we saw few glimpses of it but need more.

Gibson is too slow to close down player, too immobile to make himself available for a pass plays so many bad blind passes that squander a great chance or put us in danger. We need the 2 def mids being water carriers and he stands still and just points most of the time rather than actually making himself useful. He's been at fault for 2 goals in our last 2 games and we always look worse with him in instead of Evans. It's a joke he starts ahead of Evans if he is fit and available. Gibson had a good debut against Sheffield Wednesday and one or two decent sub appearances early on and has been crap the rest of the time - I can see why Sunderland didn't rate him. I'd give MacDonald a game before i picked him again.

Connelly is utterly garbage and the choice to bring him on was beggars belief (I suspect a clause could be in his contract). Send him back in January if possible. Both Connelly and Gibson are no better than Power who we let go - in fact I'd say they are both much worse.

Nathan Byrne is simply not a winger, he might have played there in the past but he's clearly not suited to it. He's a great attacking full back with the energy to get up and down and is good at making the most of the extra space advancing right backs are afforded without having a direct marker. But as a winger he has to go head to head with the full back and while he is very tidy in possession and works hard he's just not got the skill to beat his man in one on ones or the attacking instincts to get goals and assists. He looks every bit as full back out of position despite his best efforts. It's not right McMannnaman is not even getting on as a sub but we are using Byrne out of position (even if Nathan says he's a winger). That game was crying out for McMannnaman and again Cook won't give him a chance - he's our best chance of a match winner and we bring on anyone but him. Cook is cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Roberts gives you what he's got but he's not up to being a regular at this level. I think in his prime he could've been a good player at this level but it's hard to make the step up when your legs have already started to fade.

Windass complained he couldn't play on the wing after being so poor there - but since he went down the middle he's overall not been much better. He had the West Brom game where he looked good but has been varying degrees of poor otherwise. I know we don't exactly play to his strengths but I'm not sure his strengths are that strong tbh. He doesn't look anything like a player worth 2.5m. Rangers robbed us blind.

Powell up front has become something of a necessity since we keep going long and none of our other strikers can head or hold up a ball. But he's much more effective playing deeper and creating. I'm not sure if he's carrying knocks but he's a shadow of the player who was ripping up trees a few months ago. He seems to have lost his pace and mobility like he's afraid to fully sprint for fear of a hamstring going or something. I cant remember him having a good game in a while and we are redicolously over dependent on him.

I've been very underwhelmed with Garner, he is marginally better at getting up for headers than our other out and out strikers but he's just too small to be an effective target man. All he ever seems to do is get in confrontations, you appreciate he's trying to be combative but it comes across more petulant.

I didnt see any point bringing on both Garner and Grigg as we had stopped creating chances and neither was going to create a chance for themselves. We took of Roberts and Powell who were more likely to create than finish chances and replaced them with finishers who need service to score but wouldn't get any.

One thing thats been annoying me for a while that i feel is growing into an issue is our throwins and it was really obvious again today. Every time the opposition take a throw we are so casual we stand way back and give them time and space to comfortably play the ball out. But when we had a throw no one was showing for it, no one wanted responsibility. It got us in trouble a few times again and it will cost us if we don't sort it out. Reading were marking us and making it tricky and we need to be doing that.

who needs the pink when your heer kdz. grate post agen. as per.
 
I’m worried about Walton right now as he’s clearly low on confidence, that calamity in the second half where he refused to come out must have been a direct result of what happened against Leeds. He needs to learn to sweep past mistakes out of his mind, be decisive and commanding rather than go into your shell and stick to your goal line. Naismith did alright against awful opposition, the acid test will be in the next two when he’s targeted by Dack, Ameobi and our good friend Yanic. But MOTM once again was James and that wasn’t even one of his best performances.

good spot c-latic. me and tb were seying similar stuff about him a while ago. but this ties up with what victor sed on page 1 anall. he noticed the goal kicks were going high and long. weve sed it before about long ball tactics. were is the confedence in the back 4 gone. why cant we pley it out. keep posseseon in midfeeld. then build an attack in the top third.

were is the lack of confedence. is it with walton. is it with the back 4. do we not trust are midfeeld. sommarts lacking and youve got to ask is this coming from the traning ground and the coaches or is there sommart deeper going on in the dressing room.

no matter what royles sed. if we dont get new pleyers in the jan window then we will struggle to stey up.
 
Thanks to those for the nice feedback.

Regarding Morsy I think while the opposition is certainly stronger I think the biggest issue is he's stopped doing all the things that made him great.

He was our water carrier who constantly moved into space intelligently around the ball to ensure there is always an extra passing option and was the link man who constantly recycled possession and drove us forward. He was effectively the central cog in our system. But as season has gone on he's stopped doing much of that and turned into more of a traditional defensive midfield - a bit like Caldwell and Joyce used him and he's not as effective in that role. He's been reduced to battling for second balls from a long ball rather than play making.

I think some of that is a dip in confidence and some is a deliberet tactical switch but we need to get Morsy back to what he does best.

For starters getting Evans back along side him as they compliment each other well when played together, then stop trying to play it long as often and we'll give him a chance.
 
Morsy's main attribute is his strength. He gets out of tight positions by using his arms and out muscles players that want to get in a one on one battle with him. The problem he's having this year is that smarter opposition are not giving him the chance and are knocking the ball past him, either eliminating his ability to brush them off the ball or forcing him to chase, leading to the number of yellows and late trips his committing. The solutions are that he either gets wise to it and stands a yard off, or someone sweeps behind him for those times. To do the latter would mean sacrificing someone in the Powell role or playing a diamond in the middle
 
We all want Evans/Morsy over Gibson/Morsy. Why? For me it very simple -

Evans has a magnificent range of passing. He rakes the ball crossfield better than most in this division and a few in the league above. He can pin down the midfield without having to charge in and win the ball directly - an intercept here, the 2nd ball there. He's not physically gifted in so much as being super strong, but he is nimble and clever and is able to create things with a pass the opposition don't see.

Morsy on the other hand, doesn't have that in his locker. Sure, he can pass it with quality, but not quite at Evans' level. Morsy has the reading of the game and the physical presence to get in on opponents and create those 2nd balls. He works hard to be available, putting himself into good supporting positions to move in to defend and close down, to open up play and see the field going forward and to be in the right place to cover his teammates. Morsy carries a team forward with his ability to punch it out over 30 yards or so efficiently. Given the chance, he can blast one from the edge of the area and grab you the odd goal.

The two dovetail well. It is clear that they complement one another's distinctive strengths and weaknesses. They provide a pivot point, a fulcrum for the team. They set the tone for rest of their midfield partners.

It is clear for all, except Mr. Cook, to see right now.
 
From an outsider looking in, the exclusion of Lee Evans is a head scratcher.
With Wigan you never know ... but perhaps a cynic might suggest that there is a contractual element. More money has to be forked out ,for a transfer fee, based on the number of appearances ?
More appearances ... bigger purchase fee ?
Perhaps if the sale is confirmed we might have an inkling by the number of appearances afterwards (assuming no injuries) ?

Very little to add to the comments posted.
First twenty minutes .... "We are going to batter this lot". Reality set in not long after that.
Quite a few supporters around us were suggesting that neither team wanted to lose and a draw was likely . All before the second half had started.

Overall Entertainment value - 4
Josh WIndass second half slice - Entertainment value - 8

Watch before going to bed or you cannot sleep

I quite like the phrase "The wisdon of the crowd". Half the time, I wonder if I have been to same match as others.
However, the stats pages show pretty much (odd exception) what has been noted on this forum.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1288919/Live/England-Championship-2018-2019-Wigan-Reading
 
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