What we need most! | Vital Football

What we need most!

USAFSPURS

Vital Football Legend
Staff member
#1
Yes it is rare...but I have decided to create a thread.

My question to all of you...what is the single most needed thing we need to get this ship moving in the right direction?

What we have seen our team devolve into is a team with no other recourse but to bypass the midfield because we cannot possess the ball...at all... They have no other option but to punt it long and hope Sonny can outrun the defense...literally this is our only attack....we may be the easiest team to defend in the league...one dimensional.

So the blueprint is there...we need someone at AM that can receive the ball under pressure, hang onto it...turn and attack.

My answer - LAMELA

Now before you all lose your shit...let me explain. When I say Lamela...I actually mean someone with his skillset, his workrate, his technical ability on the ball...but yeah also someone that is physically more resilient.

--We sorely miss a player that ATTACKS relentlessly & aggressively when they have the ball. Seriously we have nobody on the pitch in our starting 11 that has that mentality.

--We don't have anyone that isn't afraid to attack right were it makes the opposition the most uncomfortable...right up the middle.

--We don't have anyone that relishes taking folks on EVERY time they get the ball. What makes a CB most uncomfortable...when a attacker is running at them...that is what.

--We really don't have anyone that is comfortable on the ball under pressure...Lamela actually is.

BL - We need someone in the middle of the pitch that can receive the ball, turn and attack! Draw defenders to him and release the ball with killer through passes to Son and whoever...
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
#2
Yes it is rare...but I have decided to create a thread.

My question to all of you...what is the single most needed thing we need to get this ship moving in the right direction?

What we have seen our team devolve into is a team with no other recourse but to bypass the midfield because we cannot possess the ball...at all... They have no other option but to punt it long and hope Sonny can outrun the defense...literally this is our only attack....we may be the easiest team to defend in the league...one dimensional.

So the blueprint is there...we need someone at AM that can receive the ball under pressure, hang onto it...turn and attack.

My answer - LAMELA

Now before you all lose your shit...let me explain. When I say Lamela...I actually mean someone with his skillset, his workrate, his technical ability on the ball...but yeah also someone that is physically more resilient.

--We sorely miss a player that ATTACKS relentlessly & aggressively when they have the ball. Seriously we have nobody on the pitch in our starting 11 that has that mentality.

--We don't have anyone that isn't afraid to attack right were it makes the opposition the most uncomfortable...right up the middle.

--We don't have anyone that relishes taking folks on EVERY time they get the ball. What makes a CB most uncomfortable...when a attacker is running at them...that is what.

--We really don't have anyone that is comfortable on the ball under pressure...Lamela actually is.

BL - We need someone in the middle of the pitch that can receive the ball, turn and attack! Draw defenders to him and release the ball with killer through passes to Son and whoever...
We have that player already. Ndombele. This is exactly what he can do. But he needs to be positioned in the right place (constantly not occasionally). And we need our defenders to pass to him not hoof it. Of course, if he was deeper they they may be less inclined to play long. Only Jose knows the answer to that. Over to you, Jose.
 

Pompey Yid

Vital 1st Team Regular
#3
Yes it is rare...but I have decided to create a thread.

My question to all of you...what is the single most needed thing we need to get this ship moving in the right direction?

What we have seen our team devolve into is a team with no other recourse but to bypass the midfield because we cannot possess the ball...at all... They have no other option but to punt it long and hope Sonny can outrun the defense...literally this is our only attack....we may be the easiest team to defend in the league...one dimensional.

So the blueprint is there...we need someone at AM that can receive the ball under pressure, hang onto it...turn and attack.

My answer - LAMELA

Now before you all lose your shit...let me explain. When I say Lamela...I actually mean someone with his skillset, his workrate, his technical ability on the ball...but yeah also someone that is physically more resilient.

--We sorely miss a player that ATTACKS relentlessly & aggressively when they have the ball. Seriously we have nobody on the pitch in our starting 11 that has that mentality.

--We don't have anyone that isn't afraid to attack right were it makes the opposition the most uncomfortable...right up the middle.

--We don't have anyone that relishes taking folks on EVERY time they get the ball. What makes a CB most uncomfortable...when a attacker is running at them...that is what.

--We really don't have anyone that is comfortable on the ball under pressure...Lamela actually is.

BL - We need someone in the middle of the pitch that can receive the ball, turn and attack! Draw defenders to him and release the ball with killer through passes to Son and whoever...
That type of attacking midfielder is correct and missing, Gary got it right regards N'Dombele, but I would also add LoCelso, your answer is Lamela so that is 3no of that type of player.

So what now....answer - JM has to have a system of play that allows that type of player to flourish, but I will not be holding my breath just yet.
 
#5
When reading 80's article, my first reaction was a system that suits our very best players, not a system that sacrifices their games to protect our weakest players.

We might need a world class, left footed, pacy centre half to achieve that so we can get the bus removed and play with a higher line.
 

Harry-Kari

Vital 1st Team Regular
#6
We have that player already. Ndombele. This is exactly what he can do. But he needs to be positioned in the right place (constantly not occasionally). And we need our defenders to pass to him not hoof it. Of course, if he was deeper they they may be less inclined to play long. Only Jose knows the answer to that. Over to you, Jose.
Everyone says that player is ND but he has only produced that form for a couple of instants before he goes missing....he has been deep to no effect and he has been forward and a couple of times effective but in general he is MIA....he got clobbered by that thug Ndidi early on and we didn’t see him again after that....LoCo has more idea about that role for me but has been put on right side defensive duty...I think he would have made a big difference on Sunday because that was where he was positioned after the restart, but then injury has taken him out once again.

I don’t know whether the problem with ND is that he really doesn’t know how to play that central role or he just can’t be bothered.
 

Harry-Kari

Vital 1st Team Regular
#7
When reading 80's article, my first reaction was a system that suits our very best players, not a system that sacrifices their games to protect our weakest players.

We might need a world class, left footed, pacy centre half to achieve that so we can get the bus removed and play with a higher line.
Which article was that Mutters? 😈😈
 

SmithAndJones

Vital Squad Member
#10
We need our own version of Bruno Fernandes, somebody who can come into the Club, grab the midfield dominance by the scruff of the neck, and make an immediate impact.
Ndombele and Lo Celso have been with us long enough for it to be clear that they don't have those capabilities. That's not to say we wouldn't start to see the best out of one/either of them if they were in partnership with a top class creative midfielder.
Who, is another matter entirely.
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
#12
We need our own version of Bruno Fernandes, somebody who can come into the Club, grab the midfield dominance by the scruff of the neck, and make an immediate impact.
Ndombele and Lo Celso have been with us long enough for it to be clear that they don't have those capabilities. That's not to say we wouldn't start to see the best out of one/either of them if they were in partnership with a top class creative midfielder.
Who, is another matter entirely.
I don't think Fernandes or any other similar flair player would have the same impact in Jose's system though.

It's like if we swapped Sissoko for Ndombele or Lo Celso or whoever, but asked them to sit in front of the back four and close to Aurier, and still played long from the back. Different players, same result.

Jose's system is largely risk averse. The players have clearly defined roles within it and are discouraged from straying outside of those boundaries.

OGS's system, on the other hand, is largely risk free. Okay, that's probably overstating it but the emphasis is encouraging the attacking players in the team. It comes with it's own problems of course because United have been all over the place defensively.

But under OGS's system Fernandes is given license to use his football brain to go and influence the play where he sees fit. And the results have been phenomenal in terms of goals and assists. It also comes at a price though. I posted some stats on here a while ago that I found which showed that he also topped the list of players with the most missed chances, misplaced passes etc. Other players like TAA, who were near the top of the assists table, also figured highly on the number of misplaced passes.

It seems if you want your flair players to flourish you have to allow them some latitude to make mistakes. This doesn't fit easily in Jose's system.
 
#13
I don't think Fernandes or any other similar flair player would have the same impact in Jose's system though.

It's like if we swapped Sissoko for Ndombele or Lo Celso or whoever, but asked them to sit in front of the back four and close to Aurier, and still played long from the back. Different players, same result.

Jose's system is largely risk averse. The players have clearly defined roles within it and are discouraged from straying outside of those boundaries.

OGS's system, on the other hand, is largely risk free. Okay, that's probably overstating it but the emphasis is encouraging the attacking players in the team. It comes with it's own problems of course because United have been all over the place defensively.

But under OGS's system Fernandes is given license to use his football brain to go and influence the play where he sees fit. And the results have been phenomenal in terms of goals and assists. It also comes at a price though. I posted some stats on here a while ago that I found which showed that he also topped the list of players with the most missed chances, misplaced passes etc. Other players like TAA, who were near the top of the assists table, also figured highly on the number of misplaced passes.

It seems if you want your flair players to flourish you have to allow them some latitude to make mistakes. This doesn't fit easily in Jose's system.
That moment last week when Sissoko was running forward with the ball and Aurier went on a great overlapping run. Then Aurier just stopped 10 yards over the half way line and there were 2 of us screaming at the TV. Sissoko checked, played the ball on the outside to Aurier and it soon got recycled inside....chance gone to get in behind the back four.

Now why would that be?
 

SmithAndJones

Vital Squad Member
#14
I don't think Fernandes or any other similar flair player would have the same impact in Jose's system though.

It's like if we swapped Sissoko for Ndombele or Lo Celso or whoever, but asked them to sit in front of the back four and close to Aurier, and still played long from the back. Different players, same result.

Jose's system is largely risk averse. The players have clearly defined roles within it and are discouraged from straying outside of those boundaries.

OGS's system, on the other hand, is largely risk free. Okay, that's probably overstating it but the emphasis is encouraging the attacking players in the team. It comes with it's own problems of course because United have been all over the place defensively.

But under OGS's system Fernandes is given license to use his football brain to go and influence the play where he sees fit. And the results have been phenomenal in terms of goals and assists. It also comes at a price though. I posted some stats on here a while ago that I found which showed that he also topped the list of players with the most missed chances, misplaced passes etc. Other players like TAA, who were near the top of the assists table, also figured highly on the number of misplaced passes.

It seems if you want your flair players to flourish you have to allow them some latitude to make mistakes. This doesn't fit easily in Jose's system.
I'd like to think that if Jose had a player (s) in midfield that he had more confidence in, he would adopt a playing style more suited to playing to Kane and Son's strengths. Maybe wishful thinking, you're probably right Gary.
 
#15
That moment last week when Sissoko was running forward with the ball and Aurier went on a great overlapping run. Then Aurier just stopped 10 yards over the half way line and there were 2 of us screaming at the TV. Sissoko checked, played the ball on the outside to Aurier and it soon got recycled inside....chance gone to get in behind the back four.

Now why would that be?
I could go on and on about this; but you know as well as I do when a player kills his attacking instincts like that (and there has literally been 100's of these examples) they're playing to orders to keep a defensive shape, I've coached enough lads to spot it a mile off.

Rarely do you win games unless you are prepared to take a gamble and stretch the opposition - and that why I've been so down about our defensive system - Jose simply refuses to trust our players, it's why N'dom is played so deep, it's why LoCo s expected to be a box to box player - I watched him for Argentina and thought 'what a player, why can't he play like that for us' - but the answer is once again, how we're set up to play.

It's absolutely driving me nuts. Rather than evolve us from Poch's all possession or nothing play, he's taking us back to the equivalent of the footballing stone-age, watching us is like watching the kids clubs learning to play systemic football.
 
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Greavswasthegreatest

Vital Football Legend
#16
Totally agree with that EX, Every other team i have wached this season without exception, when they or one of their team mates get the ball, their first instinct is to run fast towards towards the opposition goal to try to create space recieve a pass, BEAT a player and create chances to score. We are THE ONLY TEAM who do not do this except on the rare occasion we breakaway after quelling an attack. Awful most of the time. Coached to possesive death under Poch and now Marmite ....to have enhanced that mindset apart from the possession, more the hoof to get it away from our area and have a two second breather......as you say to keep defensive shape first and foremost. As such creativity is rare,
 
#17
Totally agree with that EX, Every other team i have wached this season without exception, when they or one of their team mates get the ball, their first instinct is to run fast towards towards the opposition goal to try to create space recieve a pass, BEAT a player and create chances to score. We are THE ONLY TEAM who do not do this except on the rare occasion we breakaway after quelling an attack. Awful most of the time. Coached to possesive death under Poch and now Marmite ....to have enhanced that mindset apart from the possession, more the hoof to get it away from our area and have a two second breather......as you say to keep defensive shape first and foremost. As such creativity is rare,
It also doesn't follow a pattern with the teams that win things. People could mention Leicester winning the league, but they weren't half as negative as we are at the moment. They definitely got men behind the ball but when they attacked they could do so with numbers.

I actually think it is OK to adopt Jose's system when you play teams superior to us, especially away from home. You have to pick your battles.

My problem is that it is becoming our Plan A and the players are visibly suffering from the system.
 

Greavswasthegreatest

Vital Football Legend
#18
Hands up who preferred our entertaining teams who appeared and disappeared over the decades, sometimes winning cups and trophies along the way but in the main an entertainment roller coaster who, when we won we won with style and were the talk of the town and when our players had an off day we sometimes got gubbed or played shit, but you new a great performance was likely the next game or in the near future . .....but heh we may not have won as much as we should have but what a great team to support and be part of......enjoyment glory dissappointment expectation ....when was the last time you felt really really really boyant and more importantly PROUD of our team over the last 10 years for example? I was proud in the CL semi for the comeback.....but that's pretty much it
 
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Pompey Yid

Vital 1st Team Regular
#19
Everyone says that player is ND but he has only produced that form for a couple of instants before he goes missing....he has been deep to no effect and he has been forward and a couple of times effective but in general he is MIA....he got clobbered by that thug Ndidi early on and we didn’t see him again after that....LoCo has more idea about that role for me but has been put on right side defensive duty...I think he would have made a big difference on Sunday because that was where he was positioned after the restart, but then injury has taken him out once again.

I don’t know whether the problem with ND is that he really doesn’t know how to play that central role or he just can’t be bothered.
Reading that Harry, to a degree you agree with what I said earlier, "we have them" and you put it correctly, as in not playing in their correct positions, so simple really.
 

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
#20
We have had some tough fixtures recently and Jose adopted a strategy accordingly. We have dropped points narrowly and in some cases unluckily such as Toby own goal and Aurier stupidity. Bergwijn hitting the post and missing a sitter as well as uncharacteristically Harry fluffing a header. A goal being scored with Dier rugby tackled on the deck.
Maybe if the results had gone differently our outlook would not be so dark.
I am trying to put a different slant on it, I dont rule out Jose losing the plot but it may be too soon to write him off.