What should replace the Colston statue in Bristol? | Page 16 | Vital Football

What should replace the Colston statue in Bristol?

Buddha said:
I think it's almost inevitable that they will be found guilty. (In as much as they were part of a crowd who pulled down the statue I can't see how they're anything other than guilty, the big question is why are these specific four being tried and not all the other people who also there?)

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That's not a big question. 10 people were arrested and the other 6 accepted police cautions. You are the one that keeps posting the links, don't you read.them?
 
Given that it was a riotous mob, the CPS will have overwhelming video evidence to support the charges.
Without that, the would not have proceeded.
The ten who were charged would have been assessed as ringleaders.
Six took the slap on the wrist.
Four wish to make a political point, because it certainly wouldn’t be a legal point.
As I said, high risk.
If any has previous for a similar offence, they could go down for a few weeks.
Maybe that’s what they want.
 
ThreeSixes said:
That's not a big question. 10 people were arrested and the other 6 accepted police cautions. You are the one that keeps posting the links, don't you read.them?
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Why only 10 arrested out of thousands present, silly. You didn't read my post properly, if you had you'd have noticed the bit that said, "...and not all the other people who (were*) also there?"

* It appear I omitted the word 'were' in my original post. Another error on my part. Perhaps this explains your misunderstanding? Apologies if that's the case. Though I suspect the missing 'were' wasn't so crucial, and you had some other motive for deliberately misconstruing my meaning...
 
shotshy said:
Given that it was a riotous mob, the CPS will have overwhelming video evidence to support the charges.
Without that, the would not have proceeded.
The ten who were charged would have been assessed as ringleaders.
Six took the slap on the wrist.
Four wish to make a political point, because it certainly wouldn’t be a legal point.
As I said, high risk.
If any has previous for a similar offence, they could go down for a few weeks.
Maybe that’s what they want.
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"Assessed as ringleaders." Maybe, shotty. But maybe not.

One thing I haveexperienced first hand on many occasions is the sheer inability of many police officers to understand that sometimes there just are no leaders. The amount of times we've been asked by police, "who's in charge here? who is your leader?", and honestly, they just cannot comprehend it when we tell them nobody is. They think we're just being unhelpul when actually we're being honest.

And as a result of this, sometimes the police identify people as 'ring leaders' when those people are anything but. I'm telling you this happens, I've seen it happen. People identifed and arrested as 'ringleaders' when they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fuck's sake, it's even happened to me!

And, "riotous mob" is a bit strong. They weren't rioting. It wasn't aimless vandalism, there was very much a point to it all. Nor was there any violence or injury. Hardly a, "riotous mob", more a, "determined crowd".
 
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Buddha said:
Why only 10 arrested out of thousands present, silly. You didn't read my post properly, if you had you'd have noticed the bit that said, "...and not all the other people who (were*) also there?"
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I wasn't one of the "thousands" 😉 that were there, but I would guess that the 10 that were arrested were the ones that cut down the statue and pushed it into the water, rather than the "thousands" that filmed it for their Instagram, and made loads of noise. That's just my guess though
 
ThreeSixes said:
I wasn't one of the "thousands" 😉 that were there, but I would guess that the 10 that were arrested were the ones that cut down the statue and pushed it into the water, rather than the "thousands" that filmed it for their Instagram, and made loads of noise. That's just my guess though
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Far more than 10 people were involved. Watch the videos. Besides which, even if you're right, do you think they'd have done it unless there was a crowd cheering them on? And if not, then that makes the crowd guilty too.
 
The 'authorities' will be pressured to dish out sentences that dissuade others queuing up to carry out similar acts of vandalism.
The events in Bristol achieved their aim of putting 'out of time' statues into the public consciousness. As with most things these days it became another political left/right argument with the sensible answer somewhere in the middle. Sadly most people in history who are fashioned in bronze and put on a plinth will still have had flaws that offend the modern attitudes. We are less tolerant as a nation and it is sad that the government pitched in to make it an 'us and them' issue to protect their boast of being the party of law and order. They have a great opportunity to modernise opinion and appear forward thinking. I'm not proud of much of our Imperialist history. Great Britain like many countries has done some pretty awful things to enrich itself. I think the Colston statue's dumping in the river was a sign that many in the country want to detatch and move on from that.
Give me an Anthony Gormley piece of sculpture any day.
 
Gormley was privately educated and part of the bourgeois system of OxBridge.
See
Nobody gets out alive .
Everything and everyone will be challenged in the new Utopia.
 
shotshy said:
Gormley was privately educated and part of the bourgeois system of OxBridge.
See
Nobody gets out alive .
Everything and everyone will be challenged in the new Utopia.
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I understand your fears. But does that mean that it's wrong to challenge things now?

As I've said so manyy times on this thread, the toppling of the Colston statue didn't just come out of nowhere. People had been campaigning for years for this statue and other memorials to Colston to be removed. When it did come down it was part of the zeitgeist of an international movement against racism that had been sparked in the States when George Floyd was brutally killed and the police officer who killed him was not arrested for four days, this despite the whole world having seen him do it!

This wasn't thoughtless criminal damage. This wasn't mindless violence. It was the culmination of different factors.
 
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Buddha said:
an international movement against racism that had been sparked in the States when George Floyd was murdered and the murderer weren't arrested for four days despite the whole world having seen him do it!
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I didn't realise that a trial had taken place , and the Officer had been convicted 🤔
 
valenciagill said:
I didn't realise that a trial had taken place , and the Officer had been convicted 🤔
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You're right, technically, val. Aren't you clever! Tell you what, I'll edit my post for accuracy.

Tell me something, have you actually watched the video, all seven or eight minutes of it, all the way through?

If you haven't, perhaps you should.
 
Buddha said:
Tell me something, have you actually watched the video, all seven or eight minutes of it, all the way through?

If you haven't, perhaps you should.
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Have you actually watched the full video and not the 7-8 minutes commonly shown? If you haven't then perhaps you should?

And if you have, what did you make of the scene about 5 minutes before the 7-8 minutes when he is sitting in the police car untouched by anyone complaining he was having trouble breathing?
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
I don't think Bristol will riot if they go down, but I think there might be rioting in Bristol if they do.
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My hyperbole there, well spotted! Yes, rioting in Bristol if these four are sent to prison. Hopefully the prediction will be a moot point as there will be no prison for the Colston 4.
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
Have you actually watched the full video and not the 7-8 minutes commonly shown? If you haven't then perhaps you should?

And if you have, what did you make of the scene about 5 minutes before the 7-8 minutes when he is sitting in the police car untouched by anyone complaining he was having trouble breathing?
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The one I watched had Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck for more than 7 minutes.

Besides, I didn't need to watch it all to have no sympathy with Chauvin. In an earlier post I referred to Chauvin as a 'murderer' and val pointed out that there hasn't yet been a trial. As such Chauvin is still, technically, innocent of murder. But to even point this out shows some degree of sympathy with Chauvin. I have no sympathy for the racist. Anybody who does is almost certainly a racist.
 
Buddha said:
My hyperbole there, well spotted! Yes, rioting in Bristol if these four are sent to prison. Hopefully the prediction will be a moot point as there will be no prison for the Colston 4.
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The subtle comment I was getting at is that if there is rioting and protesting in Bristol, then I suspect a lot of the people involved won't be residents from Bristol.
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
The subtle comment I was getting at is that if there is rioting and protesting in Bristol, then I suspect a lot of the people involved won't be residents from Bristol.
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How much do you know about Bristol and it's inhabitants? Have you ever lived there?
 
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