What right have we got to stop them?

Spursex

Spursex

Alert Team
Rochdale Labour councillor's son among nine Britons arrested trying to reach Syria

Councillor Shakil Ahmed issues statement saying he is 'shocked, worried and extremely upset' to find his son was one of nine Britons held by Turkish authorities


By Ben Farmer, Defence Correspondent, and Ruth Sherlock

6:02PM BST 02 Apr 2015

One of nine Britons arrested trying to get into rebel-held Syria is the son of a Labour councillor from Rochdale.

The group - all members of the same family, including four children - will be deported back to the UK where counter-terrorism police and social services are waiting to question them after they were seized at a Turkish border post.

Police in Manchester said it was “obviously concerning” that adults were taking children aged as young as one into the war-torn country.

In a statement, Rochdale councillor Shakil Ahmed said he was "shocked, worried and extremely upset" to find out his son, 22-year-old Waheed Ahmed, was one of those held by Turkish authorities.


Shakil Ahmed says he is 'shocked, worried and extremely upset'

Mr Ahmed added that he thought his son was on a work placement in Birmingham.

He said: "My son is a good Muslim and his loyalties belong to Britain, so I don't understand what he's doing there. If I thought for a second that he was in danger of being radicalised I would have reported him to the authorities.

"He's studying a degree in politics and sociology at Manchester University and has a good future ahead of him."

Nine British citizens, including 4 children, were detained Wednesday in Turkey's southern provinces of Hatay and Gaziantep (Cem Genco/Anadolu Agency)

The five adults are aged 21, 22, 22, 24 and 47 and four children, aged one, three, eight and 11, are believed to be related and currently live in Rochdale.

All were arrested at a paramiltary outpost in Reyhanli, a town that borders rebel held parts of Syria, as they tried to cross into Syria.

Asst Chief Constable Ian Wiggett, of Manchester police, said: “What is obviously concerning is why a family were seemingly attempting to take very young and vulnerable children into a warzone; such a volatile and dangerous environment is no place for them whatsoever.

“We have commenced an investigation to try and establish their reasons for travel and as this is a live investigation - which is very much in its infancy - we are not in a position to comment further."

A police statement said the nine "are believed to be related and currently live in Rochdale".

"They were stopped at the Turkey/Syria border and are expected to be returned to the UK in due course."

Police said the group included four children, aged one, three, eight and 11 (Cem Genco/Anadolu Agency)

Police said it was not clear why the family were heading to Syria. The territory where they were crossing is not controlled by Islamic State, also known as Isil, but by other rebel factions.

Asst Chief Constable Wiggett said: "One of our primary concerns is the safety and welfare of the young children and we are working with partners to ensure a full safeguarding strategy is in place upon their return to the UK".

Rochdale social services confirmed they had been called in, but would not speculate on what action they might take.

Gail Hopper, director of children’s services at Rochdale Borough Council, said: “We are aware of the situation and cooperating with Greater Manchester Police. As there is an ongoing criminal investigation it would not be appropriate to comment further at this time.”

Iman Irfan Chishti, of the Rochdale Council of Mosques, said: "We are shocked to hear this has happened in our town. Rochdale has had its fair share of negative publicity of late, given the grooming issue, and this is the last thing we need."

Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, said: "The news that nine people from Rochdale including children have been arrested in Turkey trying to get into Syria is deeply worrying.

"The idea you can take young children into a war zone is despicable and we condemn those adults who have done this."
 
"What right have we got to stop them?”
Put quite simply: They are a family of British citizens that have been detained by the Turkish authorities and prevented from illegally crossing the Turkey/Syria border, into a war zone. Therefore, I don’t really understand the question. Who are the ”we” in this?
 
'We' = The British Government, as Turkey are acting by proxy here.

Their is international law that covers the movement of people across borders; Turkey's border with Syria is still open; it actually in law up to the entry state to grant or deny entry, not their country of origin, and not even the transit countries (unless they've broken the law - which they haven't).

So the question remains, why are we stopping them entering the Country/State they wish to live in?
 
spurdon - 3/4/2015 10:00

I'll make them a pack-lunch and anyone else wants to join them.
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It does seem counter productive to me, and damaging to our security.

They should be allowed to go if that's their choice, clearly they have a desire to live under brutal Sharia law and with all the other cultural and societal restrictions that an Islamic state brings. Good luck to them, as they are never going to fit in here..

Of course, once there, their British passports should and must be rescinded and never issued to them again.

It amazes me how governments behave, we and they know that following the Hebdo massacres that in the Islamic community in the UK up to 40% of them expressed sympathy and support for their actions - so for a large proportion of them they represent a significant security risk, so I have to say, I wouldn't just pack their lunch, I'd escort every single one of them that wants to move there, to the airplane, personally.

It's no wonder we have the tensions and risks we now do.
 
Spursex - 3/4/2015 09:21

'We' = The British Government, as Turkey are acting by proxy here.

Their is international law that covers the movement of people across borders; Turkey's border with Syria is still open; it actually in law up to the entry state to grant or deny entry, not their country of origin, and not even the transit countries (unless they've broken the law - which they haven't).

So the question remains, why are we stopping them entering the Country/State they wish to live in?
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As all the reports are saying that they allegedly attempted to 'illegally' cross the border, then I presume that they did not have visas. No one is permitted to enter Syria without a visa.
 
MAN ON! - 3/4/2015 13:24

Spursex - 3/4/2015 09:21

'We' = The British Government, as Turkey are acting by proxy here.

Their is international law that covers the movement of people across borders; Turkey's border with Syria is still open; it actually in law up to the entry state to grant or deny entry, not their country of origin, and not even the transit countries (unless they've broken the law - which they haven't).

So the question remains, why are we stopping them entering the Country/State they wish to live in?
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As all the reports are saying that they allegedly attempted to 'illegally' cross the border, then I presume that they did not have visas. No one is permitted to enter Syria without a visa.
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Then, as I said, it would be for Syria to turn them away, not for Turkey to arrest them and send them back here.
 
Over 140 people just got slaughtered by radical Islamists in Kenya. The killers were asking hostages if they were Muslim, if they could not answer questions on the Koran, they got their throats cut.

My suggestion to eradicate these monsters still stands, all Muslims need screening and vetting, any potential activists need to be deported or locked up. How many more people have to die before we see sense. A referendum would be a start, we were not asked if we wanted mass immigration or multi culturism, it's our Country we should have been asked.
 
Spursex - 3/4/2015 12:16

spurdon - 3/4/2015 10:00

I'll make them a pack-lunch and anyone else wants to join them.
Click to expand...

It does seem counter productive to me, and damaging to our security.

They should be allowed to go if that's their choice, clearly they have a desire to live under brutal Sharia law and with all the other cultural and societal restrictions that an Islamic state brings. Good luck to them, as they are never going to fit in here..

Of course, once there, their British passports should and must be rescinded and never issued to them again.

It amazes me how governments behave, we and they know that following the Hebdo massacres that in the Islamic community in the UK up to 40% of them expressed sympathy and support for their actions - so for a large proportion of them they represent a significant security risk, so I have to say, I wouldn't just pack their lunch, I'd escort every single one of them that wants to move there, to the airplane, personally.

It's no wonder we have the tensions and risks we now do.
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A lot of assumptions being made here - so, which country is under 'Sharia Law'? The last time I looked Syria wasn't ?
Are we to assume that all that is reported in the press, esp, the ones devoted to right of political spectrum, are accurate or any where near accurate ? What was the sample of the ones asked to claim 40 %.... the assumptions seem to be very easily made... these are British people we are talking about .... :21:
 
Spursex - 3/4/2015 09:21

'We' = The British Government, as Turkey are acting by proxy here.

Their is international law that covers the movement of people across borders; Turkey's border with Syria is still open; it actually in law up to the entry state to grant or deny entry, not their country of origin, and not even the transit countries (unless they've broken the law - which they haven't).

So the question remains, why are we stopping them entering the Country/State they wish to live in?
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Some child trafficking could be going on - all sorts - it is our authorities to stop things being carried out with youngsters and the vulnerables. In fact I'm very pleased that international co-operation is taking place to prevent any further atrocities to individuals and nations.
 
Nick Real Deal - 3/4/2015 17:24

Over 140 people just got slaughtered by radical Islamists in Kenya. The killers were asking hostages if they were Muslim, if they could not answer questions on the Koran, they got their throats cut.

My suggestion to eradicate these monsters still stands, all Muslims need screening and vetting, any potential activists need to be deported or locked up. How many more people have to die before we see sense. A referendum would be a start, we were not asked if we wanted mass immigration or multi culturism, it's our Country we should have been asked.
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Absolutely horrific thing to learn and hear about - I wonder how accurate this report is and who survived this and was able to report this ?
What does 'mass immigration or multiculturism' got to do with all this ? :10:
 
Allowing a non compatible culture to settle into a Country is asking for trouble. The radicalized youngsters leave here to train in terrorism then kill innocent people .

If you had the power and some idiot suggested flooding the Country with uncivilized and barbaric cultures you would think they were mad and ask why would you allow it, it's going to cause havoc.

It happened and I want to know why, it does not make sense.

My point Highgate is.....they are amongst us and they have an agenda, it should not have been allowed.

I wonder how many die each year as a result of Islam, including those stoned to death for adultery etc. Those who refuse to marry an arranged partner, those who refuse to follow Islam, victims of terrorism, and on and on.
 
NRD - sorry but you've been reading too many headlines... the killers bombers whatever term you like to use are barbaric and do not belong to any society ... to my mind they have lost it - like the IRA bombers and other folks who kills -even states which plough money into them - you seem to concentrate on those using Islam as their reasonings for their madness -look around you, look at history there are plenty of examples of barbaric actions... inexcusable they are it doesn't give any of us the right to tar a whole religion by it ... the majority of the Muslims in the UK are British - born and bred... the culture and lifestyle followed may be different but this is not unique - look at Australia, the Americans, the Brazilians, New Zealanders, South Africans Israel - there are so many examples in history - the madness has gone on in the past and will probably go on in years to come but let us not cast the blame on a whole set of people who deplore the violence and despise the individuals who perpetuate this just as much, if not more, as you seem to.
 
Nick Real Deal - 3/4/2015 17:24

Over 140 people just got slaughtered by radical Islamists in Kenya. The killers were asking hostages if they were Muslim, if they could not answer questions on the Koran, they got their throats cut.

My suggestion to eradicate these monsters still stands, all Muslims need screening and vetting, any potential activists need to be deported or locked up. How many more people have to die before we see sense. A referendum would be a start, we were not asked if we wanted mass immigration or multi culturism, it's our Country we should have been asked.
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Current estimates say that around 2000 british born men have joined the self-proclaimed 'islamic Caliphate' we already know that Jihadi John is british, who he is and what he's capable of doing.

As Isis get squeezed, and as they return (as some already have) we should never underestimate their capacity for creating carnage, they're now trained and motivated to do whatever is asked of them, it is impossible for our security forces to monitor them 24 x 7, most especially as much of their ability to radicalise youngsters is done through their mosques.

As you say, no one voted for mass migration into this country and it was labour (as Madleson explained) that 'went around the World' hovering up any groups it could get it's hands on to help gerry mandering and cahnge the political complexion. So even though labour has apologised for what it did, it's a hollow apology.

Letting these traitors and murders back into this country is a massive mistake, and let's not forget how deceitful and disingenuous they are prepared to me - just a few weeks ago we had a father who blamed the British police for not stopping his daughter going to the Islamic Caliphate and bemoaning her radicalisation - only for us to now find that he was an associate of the **** that murdered Lee Rigby and lead marches proclaiming that a sharia state will take over the UK and USA...

Of course, you will always find those that are willing to make excuses for them, but as always, when it affects them directly, they'll be the first to point the fingers of blame, when in reality those that didn't act, that made excuses for them will be the true culprits.
 
What does it have to do with immigration? Absolutely nothing. If people want to become terrorists and become radicalised, they will do it in any country they like. But racially profiling people is a thick as shit way of trying to solve a problem.

At the end of the day, change needs to come by a person or group reaching a conclusion on their own, not forced. So how would racial profiling of "all Muslims" help anything at all? The more you push, the more that go over the edge. It is no surprise whatsoever to me why some individuals are susceptible to radicalization when probably 60 odd percent of people in western culture would be happy racially profiling an entire ethnic group for a variety of crimes, benefit fraud and terrorism
 
If they were not here , the problem would not be here. If there were less of them the problem would be smaller.

That's what mass immigration has to do with it.

If they were not here and we controlled our borders we wouldn't get blown up. Next time there is a terrorist attack over here who's hands is the blood on ? The perpetrators or the idiots who let them in ?


 
This article is about born and bred British citizens so, what has immigration got to do with it?

Also, on the one hand it's expressing the rights of these Brits for freedom of (illegal) movement into Syria but, on the other hand, complaining about not closing OUR borders to all and sundry.

The paranoia and completely unfounded fear of all this Islamophobia is not only ridiculous but is my real concern in all this. Prejudice, fear and hatred is the breeding ground for these potential acts of terrorism, not immigration.

There are approximately 2.7m Muslims in the UK. If anyone believes that every single one of them is a potential terrorist suspect, then I'd suggest that for your own sense of wellbeing and perceived safety, that you should run to the hills for cover or build yourself a bunker.

Alternatively, seek some medical advice. The monster is not the Muslim family, sleeping peacefully next door, the monster is the bogey man that resides in your head... Think about it.

 
the level of infiltration of extremism in this country is unknown but its extensive.

As for this lot - do any of the posters on this thread maybe want to review their posts bearing in mind a 1 and a 3 year old were involved???? That is totally sick and irresponsible.

As for those that go, just dont let them back in. Surely their actions constitute treason?
 
Why is it so difficult to grasp the immigration angle. Some are born and bred British, so what, yeah bred from their immigrant parents . Then radicalized by their immigrant elders.

What's the point trying to rubbish a claim by saying immigration has nothing to do with it. ? They are here, they are a problem. Next time there is a mass murder over here what are we going to blame it on, a failure on our security services no doubt, NO it's because they are here and the only way to solve it is to remove the danger.

We are dealing with people's lives here, it's not a social experiment that might come good. It's gone very wrong.



 
cant do that NRD, might be racist...........no doubt we'll all still be trying to avoid that tag when a nuclear device goes off in London

I mean, heaven forbid eh?
 
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