What Is Happening To Defensive Football

[SmithAndJones]

Forty one PL goals over the weekend, in a season already characterised by high scoring games. Fourteen goals by ourselves in three games over seven days,

What is happening. The only common denominator across all fixtures is empty stadiums. Are empty stadiums creating a feeling of wide open space, which sub consciously defenders are struggling to cope with. Unlikely, but I can't come up with a better theory.

In recent generations of football, focus has been on building teams with a sound defence being considered paramount. Not conceding goals has assumed more importance than a principle of going out and scoring more goals than the opposition, one nil has been king, not losing has been a good result. Consequently managers like Tony Pulis and Chris Hughton have had smaller Clubs punching above their weight with their own brands of anti football. Even as recent as last season Burnley, who had a decent season, were at one stage considered as possible Europa qualifiers, based on a good goal keeper and strong back four. This season they are struggling.

Alternatively, are managers and coaches starting to change their approach to the game. In a generation gone by the immortal Jimmy Greaves made the comment when referring to his Chelsea defence, 'If we go out and score six, these guys will let in seven'. Suddenly sixty plus years later we can now say 'If we score six, Villa will score seven', providing the opposition are iconic European Clubs,

For me, long may this last, I've had more enjoyment watching Spurs this last week than at any time since maybe the Burkinshaw days. Doubt whether it will though, what thoughts or theories do you guys have.

 

[muttley]

My theory is the rule changes and the new interpretation of the rules by the refs. They are all designed to create more goals. I think the crowd expectations is a good point as well.

So the true art of defending is dying in the game. You can't hold a perfect line across the back four for a free-kick. You can't step out as a defence for fear of someone running from an onside position. You definitely can't tackle even the slightest bit out of control.

I also think the transition to the modern full-backs and the move away from 4-4-2 has changed the game.

Makes you wonder if a manager set out to only defend whether it would work?

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

One footballer, I can't remember who, said at the resumption of the season after Covid, that he thought defenders would struggle for concentration in the empty stadiums. I don't know if it's a contributing factor or not but it was quite prescient if true.

 

[Critical_Spur]

S & J, Nice article and hope you get a range of views.

Not quite have an explanation, but would add the following to encourage further debate:

Empty stadia are not unique to UK. I looked at the La Liga results over the weekend and there was nothing out of the ordinary. Typically 2-0, 3-0, 1-1 and several 0-0 scorelines. Ditto Bundesliga with the usual culprits hitting 4 goals, but Serie A perhaps a bit like us with a couple of 7 goal thrillers (5-2).

I think Muttley makes a good point about the rules, but I was astounded by Klopp making the same mistake as Hassenhutl with a high line defence that was easily breached by Villa. There was a large element of luck involved too!. I think 3 of the Villa goals were deflections + a goalkeeper howler and we had the benefit of a sending off compounded by a very potent combo of Son and Kane.

Leeds have arrived in PL with their own brand of football and I expect them to tighten up. I am willing to put money on Villa never scoring 5 goals again this season!

Be interesting to see how the season pans out in this respect.

Another possibility could be lack of fitness in general due to C19. I thought Pool looked very lethargic y'day.

 

[Spursex]

S & J, Nice article and hope you get a range of views.

Not quite have an explanation, but would add the following to encourage further debate:

Empty stadia are not unique to UK. I looked at the La Liga results over the weekend and there was nothing out of the ordinary. Typically 2-0, 3-0, 1-1 and several 0-0 scorelines. Ditto Bundesliga with the usual culprits hitting 4 goals, but Serie A perhaps a bit like us with a couple of 7 goal thrillers (5-2).

I think Muttley makes a good point about the rules, but I was astounded by Klopp making the same mistake as Hassenhutl with a high line defence that was easily breached by Villa. There was a large element of luck involved too!. I think 3 of the Villa goals were deflections + a goalkeeper howler and we had the benefit of a sending off compounded by a very potent combo of Son and Kane.

Leeds have arrived in PL with their own brand of football and I expect them to tighten up. I am willing to put money on Villa never scoring 5 goals again this season!

Be interesting to see how the season pans out in this respect.

Another possibility could be lack of fitness in general due to C19. I thought Pool looked very lethargic y'day.

I think you make a great point about fitness; the lack of a proper break, a short or almost no pre-season, will affect fitness, conditioning and ultimately form. As well as trying to integrate new players makes for a difficult mix.

In a months time I am convinced we'll see clubs true potential, for now, I think in many cases these results are almost artificial.

 

[Pompey Yid]

One footballer, I can't remember who, said at the resumption of the season after Covid, that he thought defenders would struggle for concentration in the empty stadiums. I don't know if it's a contributing factor or not but it was quite prescient if true.

Agree there Gary, I am the same a player on Sky said the same regarding defending and crowds, esp not getting behind them, love it.

 

[Pompey Yid]

S & J, Nice article and hope you get a range of views.

Not quite have an explanation, but would add the following to encourage further debate:

Empty stadia are not unique to UK. I looked at the La Liga results over the weekend and there was nothing out of the ordinary. Typically 2-0, 3-0, 1-1 and several 0-0 scorelines. Ditto Bundesliga with the usual culprits hitting 4 goals, but Serie A perhaps a bit like us with a couple of 7 goal thrillers (5-2).

I think Muttley makes a good point about the rules, but I was astounded by Klopp making the same mistake as Hassenhutl with a high line defence that was easily breached by Villa. There was a large element of luck involved too!. I think 3 of the Villa goals were deflections + a goalkeeper howler and we had the benefit of a sending off compounded by a very potent combo of Son and Kane.

Leeds have arrived in PL with their own brand of football and I expect them to tighten up. I am willing to put money on Villa never scoring 5 goals again this season!

Be interesting to see how the season pans out in this respect.

Another possibility could be lack of fitness in general due to C19. I thought Pool looked very lethargic y'day.

I agree with majority of what you say, except the sending off bit, lets be perfectly honest here, we were dominant prior to the incident and with a bit more luck could have been 5 or 6 up by that time.

 

[Greavswasthegreatest]

Now the top players can reminisce about when they started playing football on public pitches with maybe a dad or two hollering at them and the ref from the touchline or a girlfriend coming along for the ride (oooerr) ....I remember it well / empty pitch sides when I was playing...ha ha eh Walthy! As we got older and better we played in local grounds e,g of Southern League Clubs like Clapton, Hendon, Enfield etc so a few more would be watching including I recall the Nolan sisters who also came to our after match parties...no never got to go out with any of them....my missus (my girlfirend at the time and a black belt Judo would have killed me)...and yes we scored hat fulls of goals (honest) also let in quite a few ha ha.

 

[Critical_Spur]

I agree with majority of what you say, except the sending off bit, lets be perfectly honest here, we were dominant prior to the incident and with a bit more luck could have been 5 or 6 up by that time.

Hi PY,
Wasn't taking away anything from our lads. Was just pointing out that how when things align, they can have a compounding effect. Would love for us to hit 4/5 goals every match.... (anyway, that's for the match/inquest thread!)

 

[freundorfoe]

I wonder if defenders aren't managing to focus as much without the crowd? Also maybe pressure being off attackers is allowing them to be more clinical?

Jose made me laugh when he said spurs have scored 5 then 7 and 6 with a defensive coach, imagine what they'd do with an attacking coach.

 

[Spursex]

I wonder if defenders aren't managing to focus as much without the crowd? Also maybe pressure being off attackers is allowing them to be more clinical?

Jose made me laugh when he said spurs have scored 5 then 7 and 6 with a defensive coach, imagine what they'd do with an attacking coach.

You have to hand it to Jose, he can't stop himself digging out anyone and everyone, his use of irony actually makes me like him sometimes...

 

[Harry-Kari]

I think one thing that was highlighted in both the Utd and Liverpool games is the importance of individual players in teams.

I have 5hought for ages thst Liverpools‘ defence is extremely suspect but that teams struggled to pressurise it because of the big press they put on in MF and up front....yesterday Sane was missing, and Jota, while good, is not in the same class...Sane presses hard up front and gets back to defend, but that drive was missing from their team yesterday, and playing a high line badly just made it easy for Villa to attack, which they did very well.

For us against Utd, great team performance but for me it underlined the importance of Son to us....Harry making those passes to Bergs, Lucas or anyone else and I doubt we would have scored the two goals he got...but again, thanks to Jose’s tactics of pushing MF up the pitch it allowed us to get at what is a truly shambolic defence that Utd have.

Similarly, Pep was amazed that Leicester had the temerity to play past his press and take advantage of his high line defence .

As regards whether a dominant defensive tactic can work, we see that it does regularly with bus Parker’s but rarely yields more than a point.

Finally there is Leeds...when those boys attack there are no half measures with 5 or 6 players flooding the opposition box and if the opposition’s MF players don’t drop and defend it spells goals....at either end...come back Ossie, your time is now.

 

[Real Deal]

I think Mutters has hit the nail on the head. I would also add there just isn't many good CB's around these days. The Prem is loaded with average CB's.

 

[Departed]

My theory is the rule changes and the new interpretation of the rules by the refs. They are all designed to create more goals. I think the crowd expectations is a good point as well.

So the true art of defending is dying in the game. You can't hold a perfect line across the back four for a free-kick. You can't step out as a defence for fear of someone running from an onside position. You definitely can't tackle even the slightest bit out of control.

I also think the transition to the modern full-backs and the move away from 4-4-2 has changed the game.

Makes you wonder if a manager set out to only defend whether it would work?

You are probably correct. But at the same time, sports evolve. This is just one more phase.

 

[steveperryman]

I vehemently disagree that there are fewer top class CBs around Europe. The rule changes have created the surge in goals we now see. Just check last seasons CL campaign & you'll see it was a goalfest as well.

 

[Spursex]

I vehemently disagree that there are fewer top class CBs around Europe. The rule changes have created the surge in goals we now see. Just check last seasons CL campaign & you'll see it was a goalfest as well.

There is another sinple reason, normally in pre-season coaches will work their defensive units hard to be aware, be tight ,work on maintiainng a line, working to a system etc - this time around alot of these defensive units look like they are strangers playing together. I've just watched the leicester and Villa games - and the defenders are running around like headless chickens with no defensive dicipline at all - give it a month and we'll all be moaning at the lack of goals in the PL...

 

[steveperryman]

There is another sinple reason, normally in pre-season coaches will work their defensive units hard to be aware, be tight ,work on maintiainng a line, working to a system etc - this time around alot of these defensive units look like they are strangers playing together. I've just watched the leicester and Villa games - and the defenders are running around like headless chickens with no defensive dicipline at all - give it a month and we'll all be moaning at the lack of goals in the PL...

Yeah i've noticed that as well. Thing is there are an awful lot of teams playing a high line, very badly.

The rule changes have favoured attackers as defensive units are still coming to terms with them. Until they're clarified or ammended by the powers that be, i don't expect that to change anytime soon.

 

[Welshtel]

Defence needs to be sorted. I will admit that I see all sorts of players coming back to defend in all sorts of situations, which is great. But we need to attack, like Pochettino had us doing because in itself, possession and high press is good for a defence strategy.

 

[meee93]

How spursy of us to hire arguably the best defensive manager of all time, only for football to change so that defending becomes more difficult and attacking more rewarding.

 

[Welshtel]

I’m all for attacking and it’s great to see us breaking down defences and getting the ball in the net but I want to see clean sheets. I thought Villa were terrific in taking Liverpool part, what great forward passes and shooting. Can we have some of that please?