What If

M

Mr Happy

Vital Youth Team
What if we don't win a trophy, and don't finish top four. Will those people who actually believe the sun shines out of this managers arse eventually concede he doesn't know what he is doing, and he should be on his merry way.

This isn't a knee jerk reaction from last night, I didn't want him in the first place, and I certainly don't want him now. Last four games we have scored 1 goal and that was from a penalty. We went through a similar patch earlier in the season. Last night we lost against a side equivalent to a mid table first division team in England, that's the same as putting a strong Spurs side out against the MK Dons reserves and losing. They either weren't motivated, weren't fit as a result of to much or to little training, or there is a problem behind the scenes. Why don't we close other sides down any more, why can't the players string two passes together, and why won't they get out of first gear. His substitutions are generally poor, and badly timed, and some of the players he has bought have been a complete catastrophe. I don't pretend he is the worst manager we have ever had, but he is making a damn good attempt at the moment.
 
What if .......you notice how high we were in the league last year and where we are now....we are having blips and this is down to the lack of quality on the bench when our 1st choices are injured...but we surely have a great base to build on...we just need to embellish our squad with 2/3 quality signings and get rid of the dross...

We are not in mid table mediocrity and we are not a 'challenge for top 6 side anymore'...we have gone up a notch from those days
 
It was like watching us under AVB last night. No urgency, no passion, no chemistry and no confidence. What has gone wrong with us in recent games? It surely isn't just the loss of Rose and Verts to injury. We started with Kane isolated upfront, Dele and Sissoko seemed to be playing wide. Neither of them are wingers, so why do that? We got overran through the middle yet again. This is becoming the case too often for it to be called unusual now. We played ourselves into trouble more often than not. Stupid balls played around our own box because we are afraid to 'lump it' (or play a long pass as Wenger calls it). Surely if the oppo are making hay out of your goal kicks you change them don't you? Even when Lloris was forced to go long he just booted over Davies' head into touch. Why not aim it at Kane and get players around him? There was absolutely no pressing as a team in the way we did last season. Not once did I see our mf push up en bloc when Kane led a press against their keeper or last defender. Rapid movement the ball in transition from defence to attack has made us a great team to watch under Poch, that has been non existent lately. How many times did we see Dembele default to his frustrating behaviour of beat a man, turn around go back, beat him again, then take on his mate and lose the ball. All before looking for a forward pass?
I don't think Poch's 'machine' is broken by any means and I still have faith in him. However, some of the parts may need to be reminded that they are cogs and exactly what their particular role is in the machine
An outfield captain with the ability to understand a problem when it arises and the nous to enact a solution on the fly is becoming a necessity. Take the Liverpool game, who couldn't see that Clyne and Mane were ganging up on Davies? Our whole team presumably. Which is why as a team we did nothing about it. Any other team would have made a tactical response immediately. The problem would have been identified and dealt with by the outfield captain, without recourse the manager.
 
He makes a lot of mistakes, especially with his signings, but we are still up there playing pretty boring and predictable football. So he isn't crap he has something. But he ain't the messiah either which many think he is.

He has made us very hard to beat in the main, and has built up a very strong spine.

The problem is he doesn't have a clue how to sign genuine quality attacking players. The evidence is there. 6 transfer windows in and only Son on occasions has been any good. He was hardly an unknown and he was expensive too. So at best he was an okay signing. Alli was a Pleat find so can he take credit for that?

We lack pace and technical quality in the final third of the pitch until this is addressed we ain't winning shit.

We need a minimum of 3 attacking players brought in for the summer. Anything less won't make a difference.
 
His attacking signings have been piss poor. The amount we have wasted on the likes of sissoko, janssen and son would have got us mane and a very good striker with wanyama.

How many of our scouts have left. Is mopo hard to work with in regards to getting in players. Levy has stumped up the cash so I believe its down to the manager.
 
We have not really improved in the last two seasons from genuine 5th placed club to genuine 2nd / 3rd placed club in the PL as a result of Porky. It is just nonsense to think we have.

A huge part of the reason for our 'improvement' is the steady decline of Ars*nal (will we finish above them though?), Chelsea stopping playing for their manager last year, United post Fergie, and the internal strife at City which caused them to announce mid-season that their manager would be leaving.

Our first eleven - most of whom Porky inherited - are quite good but hampered by the tactical 'thinking' and backed-up by a lacklustre bench. His control of recruitement / sales over three years is a not very funny joke.

When push comes to shove (our response when someone is showing us what football is about) we could have done worse but in no way have we taken the advanatge we could have given the circumstances we haave found ourselves in. Things won't change much though as Lewis / Levy are making money and never bought us to win things.
 
Some very pertinent points made in all of the above posts and agree with most.

Real Deal says: "We need a minimum of 3 attacking players brought in for the summer. Anything less won't make a difference."

That is an area I need real convincing. Does Poch have the know-how to make those vital signings. Based on his recruitment so far, I have my doubts.
 
Real Deal - 17/2/2017 17:30

He makes a lot of mistakes, especially with his signings, but we are still up there playing pretty boring and predictable football. So he isn't crap he has something. But he ain't the messiah either which many think he is.

He has made us very hard to beat in the main, and has built up a very strong spine.

The problem is he doesn't have a clue how to sign genuine quality attacking players. The evidence is there. 6 transfer windows in and only Son on occasions has been any good. He was hardly an unknown and he was expensive too. So at best he was an okay signing. Alli was a Pleat find so can he take credit for that?

We lack pace and technical quality in the final third of the pitch until this is addressed we ain't winning shit.

We need a minimum of 3 attacking players brought in for the summer. Anything less won't make a difference.
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:1: Who would you drop from the team to accommodate the required technical quality signings?
 
Nick Real Deal - 17/2/2017 23:15

Is it really down to Poch to find , evaluate and agree price etc for a player. I suggest not.
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You have to bear in mind that he is the manager and not just head-coach, and no one gets bought / sold without his say so.

The scouting system is there to find players, and as manager Porky will see players who he thinks are right for him.

He certainly isn't involved in agreeing prices and contracts though.
 
It's a dilemma really if you're Poch and managing England's 6th biggest team. You want players like Mane to join your club as you know they can improve the team. Your club won't sponsor either the transfer fee or the salary so you have to move on to the next set of targets which brings in way more risk. That means that your fans will be bashing you when they don't work and completely forget you had one hand tied behind your back in the first place. They've also forgotten the great work you've done on players like Rose, Walker, Dembele and Lamela and take for granted now that they perform at the levels they do. They also forget that you've ripped out over 30 players since you joined the club and are constantly bringing talented youngsters through when you think they've good enough for the first team.

All that being said, fans live for the moment and right now there is pressure building on Poch. Some see the bigger picture and a lot believe that the best managers in the world wouldn't do drastically better than Poch is. The net, net is that we've either got to find more Dele Alli's or start to eat at the top table for transfers and salaries. A new manager won't change a thing in my opinion. We just have to hope that Poch can handle the pressure of one of the toughest jobs in football. Being the 6th biggest club is as tough as it gets.
 
muttley - 20/2/2017 19:14

They also forget that you've ripped out over 30 players since you joined the club and are constantly bringing talented youngsters through when you think they've good enough for the first team.
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'Constantly' over-eggs it a bit doesn't it?

Before this season Onomah was the only one in two years he bought out of the U21's into the first team squad and given game time to. This season he tried a few more in friendlies, but only Winks is getting game time.

Either something wrong with the Academy or Porky doesn't really trust youth.
 
In my view, this has been well summed up and rationalised by 'SpursEx's' article:
'Poch has produced a minor miracle at Spurs'

He faces the toughest job in the EPL top 6.

His hands are tied and before our 'blip', we were and still can be the talk of the pundits as the best 'package' (when all on song) in the league bar Chelsea!

 
RichmondSpur - 18/2/2017 02:52

Real Deal - 17/2/2017 17:30

He makes a lot of mistakes, especially with his signings, but we are still up there playing pretty boring and predictable football. So he isn't crap he has something. But he ain't the messiah either which many think he is.

He has made us very hard to beat in the main, and has built up a very strong spine.

The problem is he doesn't have a clue how to sign genuine quality attacking players. The evidence is there. 6 transfer windows in and only Son on occasions has been any good. He was hardly an unknown and he was expensive too. So at best he was an okay signing. Alli was a Pleat find so can he take credit for that?

We lack pace and technical quality in the final third of the pitch until this is addressed we ain't winning shit.

We need a minimum of 3 attacking players brought in for the summer. Anything less won't make a difference.
Click to expand...

:1: Who would you drop from the team to accommodate the required technical quality signings?
Click to expand...

There have been points through the season where all of our attacking players have needed dropping. We obviously haven't had the options or Poch doesn't want to use them.

Next season I hope we play Wana as the DM,( Dier's days there are over) we bring in an experienced tempo setter who is first team quality. Then I would play Eriksen just in front of them two.

I would play Alli just behind Kane, them two are our best options in the final third of the pitch. Then I would go all out to sign a genuine first team AM who has technical skills, vision, and has some guile and of course pace.

That leaves Lamela N'Koud, Son, Onomah, Sissoko, Janssen. Are any of them good enough?

I would like to see N'Kou stay one more season and actually get a chance. I would be tempted to keep Son but only as a striker. He does know where the back of the net is. I would sell Janssen and Sissoko without a moments hesitation. It looks like Lamela wants out, his agent has certainly been pushing for it. Onomah isn't even an AM.




 
Bald Archie - 20/2/2017 20:20

muttley - 20/2/2017 19:14

They also forget that you've ripped out over 30 players since you joined the club and are constantly bringing talented youngsters through when you think they've good enough for the first team.
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'Constantly' over-eggs it a bit doesn't it?

Before this season Onomah was the only one in two years he bought out of the U21's into the first team squad and given game time to. This season he tried a few more in friendlies, but only Winks is getting game time.

Either something wrong with the Academy or Porky doesn't really trust youth.
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You raise a great point actually. We are using up squad places to U21's CCV, Lopez, Winks, Onomah this season but only Winks is hitting the mark. The others still could, plus guys like Walker-Peters and Edwards. Saying that I'd rather have Poch's strategy than Harry who would have 3 or 4 over 25's out on loan at any point as he couldn't find buyers and didn't want them around the place sucking the wage bill. They were the bad old days !!!
 
I thought 80 said edwards signed a new deal on the basis he would see first team game time? Has he been injured or was that untrue.
 
He got injured last November and made a comeback for the development squad at the end of January. He is still making his comeback from this injury.
 
muttley - 20/2/2017 19:14

It's a dilemma really if you're Poch and managing England's 6th biggest team. You want players like Mane to join your club as you know they can improve the team. Your club won't sponsor either the transfer fee or the salary so you have to move on to the next set of targets which brings in way more risk. That means that your fans will be bashing you when they don't work and completely forget you had one hand tied behind your back in the first place. They've also forgotten the great work you've done on players like Rose, Walker, Dembele and Lamela and take for granted now that they perform at the levels they do. They also forget that you've ripped out over 30 players since you joined the club and are constantly bringing talented youngsters through when you think they've good enough for the first team.

All that being said, fans live for the moment and right now there is pressure building on Poch. Some see the bigger picture and a lot believe that the best managers in the world wouldn't do drastically better than Poch is. The net, net is that we've either got to find more Dele Alli's or start to eat at the top table for transfers and salaries. A new manager won't change a thing in my opinion. We just have to hope that Poch can handle the pressure of one of the toughest jobs in football. Being the 6th biggest club is as tough as it gets.
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6th biggest in what terms ?

 
Walker and Vert have both said in interviews today that the players want a trophy. Walker also says Poch has toned down training a little to try and stop burn out . He also says Walker Peters is standing out in training and looking good. Vert is impressed with Winks too.

Kane said the players had words after the Gent game and agreed they can do better. Kane also is eyeing silverware so maybe they realise it's time to go for it.
 
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