What do commuters........

LancsGordoRoad

Vital Champions League
..or anyone else, for that matter, think about Mark Carne`s award of a C.B.E. ????

Should this award be:

Subject to a CBE Replacement Service, and handed to someone else?

Subject to severe delay in being awarded ?

Cancelled altogether ?

Anyone have a train of thought on this...............
 
Sums up the whole "jobs for the boys" and "reward for failure" culture we have at the top.

Also screams out for the need of a common sense manager to review all of these first and advise HMG on how the public might see this issue.

How many senior leaders of failed banks go on to receive honors as well.

Shameful but not surprising at all.

Sooner it went to a doctor or surgon who saved countless lives
 
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Network Rail have been spending a lot improving capacity and reliability on the Southeastern network but if I lived up north or the East Midlands then I’d be fucked off! Particularly the cancelled works on the East Coast Mainline and the Northern network. I actually feel for Northern having to cope with the situation they were put in by Network Rail so soon before the new timetable went live.

Of course, Network Rail are nationalised and are at the mercy themselves of this Government cancelling funding for certain works.
 
The one who should be held accountable for this railway mess is that useless, spineless cretin Grayling. Our Minister for Transport - what a waste of space this Berkley Hunt really is. A typical Tory who passes the buck and squirms like a worm - yet he has overall authority and responsibility to sort out this mess - it is his bloody job. Just remember who privatised it all. Time the whole of the rail network was brought back into state ownership.
 
The one who should be held accountable for this railway mess is that useless, spineless cretin Grayling. Our Minister for Transport - what a waste of space this Berkley Hunt really is. A typical Tory who passes the buck and squirms like a worm - yet he has overall authority and responsibility to sort out this mess - it is his bloody job. Just remember who privatised it all. Time the whole of the rail network was brought back into state ownership.

I’ll give you fair warning here: rant time!

I’m neither for nor against nationalisation - someone needs to come out with a modicum of a plan and financial burden, if any. Then a rough outline on what structure it wants. But the calls for nationalisation are often used as a convenient answer based on ideals without actually looking at whether it will truly answer the main issues we suffer with the railway:

- Ticket fares: it’s actually the Government themselves who tell the Train Operating Companies (TOCs) to raise prices each year by retail inflation plus maybe another 0.1-2%. The base price is too high, absolutely, and RPI is forever greater than the pay rises most of us earn, absolutely. So surely a party has the ability to say “if you vote us in then there’ll be no price increases for the entire term”?

- Capacity: that’s largely dependent on the number of train tracks and terminal platforms, the length of platforms, the inability to provide double-decker trains, and the ability of the signals to shorten the time between trains. All this infrastructure is down to the nationalised Network Rail.

A lack of trains where there is room for them is down to the amount of trains a TOC has, definitely. But for delay in acquiring more trains then comes down to the DfT having to give the authority and then the trains to be built. Currently the train-making factories in the UK are running at 100% which is why many TOCs are now forced to go abroad even when there are decent options to choose from in the UK.

- Reliability: issues like points failure, broken tracks, signal/track circuit failure, trees on the line etc all come under the nationalised Network Rail’s remit. Shortage of traincrew could either be a result of the TOC, but also remember if this is during disruption then it’s fairly likely that the train and crew meant to be taking your train is caught up in the disruption. Particularly if the were working the train’s previous journey.

- Rail Replacement Services: I literally saw a councillor recently tweet “On the Rail Replacement Bus due to planned engineering works. We need to nationalise our railways NOW!”. See the point above.

- Industrial action: often a melting pot of blame between the TOC attempting to save money/cut staff incidents; the Unions protecting jobs no matter how small the changes are, and both digging their heels in.

Don’t forget as well that there’s a set of commitments the Government demand when the franchise tender is being bid for. In Southern’s case IIRC there was even the mention of changing the conductors roles as well as the ticket office closures. That’s only what I vaguely recall, and having Googled the commitments just now I ended up with a 670-odd page PDF while I’ll be fucked if I’m going to read shortly before popping off to the micropub.

- Communication during disruption: at least this one’s largely down to the TOC, bar communication/last-minute decision-making by the signaller etc.

- Comfort: for standing, see capacity above. For the comfort of the seats nowadays (for anyone lucky enough to have had a ride on one of the mythical Thameslink services from Medway) my God it’s like sitting on an ironing board. Apparently the lack of padding is down to Government demands on fire safety. Surely the Government can just say “you know what, let’s ditch this OTT regulation”.

————-

So by my reckoning if we want to improve the railways we’ve got to forget who owns it and just fucking invest in Network Rail. Unfortunately this comes at a time when the NHS and other departments also need ‘saving’.

Longer franchises would in my eyes encourage more investment by the TOC owners. Why invest in a franchise if you’ve got to bid for it again just 4 years later? How much return on that investment will you see in those 4 years?? If companies want to make profits, then there are a hell of a lot of other industries they would rather look at. Sure, parent companies get a slice of profits. But given the profit margin for TOCs is so paltry compared to the overall turnover the money the parent company makes simply won’t make a drop in the ocean.

The ‘good old BR gravy train’ days were days of awful conditions and horrific needless wastage the higher up the hierarchy you go - a bit like the NHS now.
 
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Nationalised railways seem to work in France (except the strikes) and Germany though.

Fair point that the SE is better off than the North though. I took the Trans Pennine Express once - Never, ever again !
 
Northern Rail is a shambles and the Pacer trains we have up here are around 40 years old and disgusting. When friends visit from the south and we venture in to Manchester or Liverpool by train they can hardly believe that this sort of rolling stock is still in use ! The only saving grace is that Virgin West Coast run a decent service down to London so I can at least travel in comfort when I go to Gills home games via the rattler. Northern Rail is a joke !
 
To keep it short-
Nationalised railway- Lots of mates in a pub getting pissed, but it all goes well.
Privatised railway- Lots of strangers in a pub getting pissed, and ending in a fight!
 
Are the Pacer trains the ones that sound like a clapped out old transit going up chatham hill belching black smoke ?

I really felt that I had gone back 40 years on the Leeds to Rochdale train over the Pennines (beautiful scenery though)
 
I’ll give you fair warning here: rant time!

I’m neither for nor against nationalisation - someone needs to come out with a modicum of a plan and financial burden, if any. Then a rough outline on what structure it wants. But the calls for nationalisation are often used as a convenient answer based on ideals without actually looking at whether it will truly answer the main issues we suffer with the railway:

- Ticket fares: it’s actually the Government themselves who tell the Train Operating Companies (TOCs) to raise prices each year by retail inflation plus maybe another 0.1-2%. The base price is too high, absolutely, and RPI is forever greater than the pay rises most of us earn, absolutely. So surely a party has the ability to say “if you vote us in then there’ll be no price increases for the entire term”?

- Capacity: that’s largely dependent on the number of train tracks and terminal platforms, the length of platforms, the inability to provide double-decker trains, and the ability of the signals to shorten the time between trains. All this infrastructure is down to the nationalised Network Rail.

A lack of trains where there is room for them is down to the amount of trains a TOC has, definitely. But for delay in acquiring more trains then comes down to the DfT having to give the authority and then the trains to be built. Currently the train-making factories in the UK are running at 100% which is why many TOCs are now forced to go abroad even when there are decent options to choose from in the UK.

- Reliability: issues like points failure, broken tracks, signal/track circuit failure, trees on the line etc all come under the nationalised Network Rail’s remit. Shortage of traincrew could either be a result of the TOC, but also remember if this is during disruption then it’s fairly likely that the train and crew meant to be taking your train is caught up in the disruption. Particularly if the were working the train’s previous journey.

- Rail Replacement Services: I literally saw a councillor recently tweet “On the Rail Replacement Bus due to planned engineering works. We need to nationalise our railways NOW!”. See the point above.

- Industrial action: often a melting pot of blame between the TOC attempting to save money/cut staff incidents; the Unions protecting jobs no matter how small the changes are, and both digging their heels in.

Don’t forget as well that there’s a set of commitments the Government demand when the franchise tender is being bid for. In Southern’s case IIRC there was even the mention of changing the conductors roles as well as the ticket office closures. That’s only what I vaguely recall, and having Googled the commitments just now I ended up with a 670-odd page PDF while I’ll be fucked if I’m going to read shortly before popping off to the micropub.

- Communication during disruption: at least this one’s largely down to the TOC, bar communication/last-minute decision-making by the signaller etc.

- Comfort: for standing, see capacity above. For the comfort of the seats nowadays (for anyone lucky enough to have had a ride on one of the mythical Thameslink services from Medway) my God it’s like sitting on an ironing board. Apparently the lack of padding is down to Government demands on fire safety. Surely the Government can just say “you know what, let’s ditch this OTT regulation”.

————-

So by my reckoning if we want to improve the railways we’ve got to forget who owns it and just fucking invest in Network Rail. Unfortunately this comes at a time when the NHS and other departments also need ‘saving’.

Longer franchises would in my eyes encourage more investment by the TOC owners. Why invest in a franchise if you’ve got to bid for it again just 4 years later? How much return on that investment will you see in those 4 years?? If companies want to make profits, then there are a hell of a lot of other industries they would rather look at. Sure, parent companies get a slice of profits. But given the profit margin for TOCs is so paltry compared to the overall turnover the money the parent company makes simply won’t make a drop in the ocean.

The ‘good old BR gravy train’ days were days of awful conditions and horrific needless wastage the higher up the hierarchy you go - a bit like the NHS now.
That wasn't a rant. That was a good post.
 
images


markinkent, this is a Pacer train. Imagine this archaic piece of ***** on a platform beside one of the high speed Javelin trains you guys down in Kent have ! Which one would you choose ? Honestly, Northern rail is down the pan, and they can take their Pacers with them !
 
Are the Pacer trains the ones that sound like a clapped out old transit going up chatham hill belching black smoke ?

I really felt that I had gone back 40 years on the Leeds to Rochdale train over the Pennines (beautiful scenery though)
Do they still have those ones which are bus bodies on single axle wheels instead of conventional bogies? They used to screech on the slightest curve on the Airedale line. I can remember the old DMU's there -green paint and beautifully fitted out wood interiors.
 
We only have javelins on the high speed lines. The Victoria larger trains are not bad but the secondary victoria trains and cannon street/charring cross trains are absolute shite with legroom designed for dwarves.

The normal southwest trains are jampacked as are the dartford charring cross line trains (to a dangerous levelj.

The slow trains on the kings cross lines are absolute rubbish compared to the faster intercities.
 
IIRC trains have a shelf-life of around 35-40 years and the owners try to get that out of them. Only high speed trains get scrapped before this, mainly due to the sheer strain on the parts.

It’s horrible that trains approaching this age get cascaded to the northern and welsh networks - they’re now refurbishing old tube trains and about to put them into service after trialling diesel and electric battery engines in them! Imagine that in Medway, even just on the Medway Valley line there’ll be uproar.

Ideally someone would finally make a breakthrough in designing a double-decker train which can fit on our networks - apparently designers in Switzerland or somewhere are close. Lower the undercarriage now you need far less mechanical stuff below. Make the lower deck like the new Thameslink trains for commuters travelling short journeys, or less mobile/luggage-carrying passengers. Then make the upper deck like the normal mainline seating like you get on Southeastern mainline.
 
It’s horrible that trains approaching this age get cascaded to the northern and welsh networks - they’re now refurbishing old tube trains and about to put them into service after trialling diesel and electric battery engines in them! Imagine that in Medway, even just on the Medway Valley line there’ll be uproar.

There's Javelins on the Medway valley Line too :-)
 
It’s horrible that trains approaching this age get cascaded to the northern and welsh networks - they’re now refurbishing old tube trains and about to put them into service after trialling diesel and electric battery engines in them! Imagine that in Medway, even just on the Medway Valley line there’ll be uproar.

There's Javelins on the Medway valley Line too :-)
Only one or so during rush hour IIRC. The rest of the time it deserves horse and cart :lol:
 
Do they still have those ones which are bus bodies on single axle wheels instead of conventional bogies? They used to screech on the slightest curve on the Airedale line. I can remember the old DMU's there -green paint and beautifully fitted out wood interiors.
Yes as in Lancs' photo - four wheels otherwise known as nodding donkeys
 
IIRC trains have a shelf-life of around 35-40 years and the owners try to get that out of them. Only high speed trains get scrapped before this, mainly due to the sheer strain on the parts.

It’s horrible that trains approaching this age get cascaded to the northern and welsh networks - they’re now refurbishing old tube trains and about to put them into service after trialling diesel and electric battery engines in them! Imagine that in Medway, even just on the Medway Valley line there’ll be uproar.

Ideally someone would finally make a breakthrough in designing a double-decker train which can fit on our networks - apparently designers in Switzerland or somewhere are close. Lower the undercarriage now you need far less mechanical stuff below. Make the lower deck like the new Thameslink trains for commuters travelling short journeys, or less mobile/luggage-carrying passengers. Then make the upper deck like the normal mainline seating like you get on Southeastern mainline.
What is worse is that new franchisees are eschewing the chance to carry on with stock used by the previous incumbent and leasing new equipment to the extent that redundant serviceable stock would cover 40 miles of track, ie London to Bedford, and Northern and Great Western in Devon and Cornwall have to put up with very old stock.
 
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