What are we going to get dinged with?

[TMFwanstead]

Don’t buy double jeopardy argument. According to Everton thinking because they have had a 6 point penalty judged on three years the next sea,son the debts over the next rolling three years defaults to zero. No one year of accounts drop out and the latest come in. It is a rolling three years. Forest will still have a championship beaded figure in their three years, as will B’muff, Fulham and any of the other recently promoted teams. It is a rolling three years, not double jeopardy.

Yes I agree with that. Other than I think the PSR system as it stands is a complete load of crap and is being scrapped at the end of this season by the look of it then its not double jeopardy. They should have been penalized last season but there wasn’t enough time. On this one they are facing they should get less points as only 2 out of the 3 years they have breached as opposed to all 3 last time

 

[Fulhamred]

We are over by the less than the Brennan money or less which is our argument because we would have been under the limit if that sale was accounted in the previous season.

Therefore we are looking at a max of 6 as i see it.

Then we have mitigating factors
1. Brennan sale
2. First offence - Everton had dialogue and support
3. Did we gain an unfair advantage ?
4. We have only been in the EPL for one season so they can't give us the same as Everton.

Ultimately, Everton have had chances to be below but still bought Onana, Beto, Garner, Maupay, Mcneil etc while not selling Pickford and the likes.so i think we are in a different position to them.

Would we settle with 3 points off ? No, i think it's worth appealing as i would have thought given how late in the season it will be by then they couldn't increase the penalty and may even lower it like they did for Everton. It will all be about interpretation and sensitvity.

Would we take 1-2 points ? If we think we can go clear then yes...

Ultimately, tomorrow is must not lose game and will decide if we accept it or not..

 

[mao tse tung]

If its 6 we should refuse to play v Luton, or anyone else until they retract. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons and be absolutely hilarious to watch.

I think 3 points, and we should appeal it. I don't want to know the verdict until after the Luton game though, so not to provide them with an added motivation. A Sunday announcement is fine

Apart from the fact that its a three point penalty for failing to ensure a game takes place, its a great idea.

And there is precedent on this one; Middlesbrough were deducted three points for failing to ensure a game against Blackburn went ahead in 1997

 

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

Absolutely the whole thing is a dogs dinner. There is an argument any penalty points should start at the beginning of a season. Then everyone knows where they stand. If this sort of process was in any competent business there would be heads to roll. Profit and sustainability that could relegate a team and potentially have catastrophic financial implications which is the complete opposite to what it is supposed to do

It's a dog's dinner but I didn't see many of us complaining (me included) when we heard Everton were getting 10 points deducted earlier this season

Let's be honest. When it's happening to any other team than your own in the same league we welcome and celebrate stuff like this happening

 

[Marco Polo]

I hope we get something, going to be singing this for weeks

Tsamina mina eh eh
waka ay ay
Points deduction who gives a fuck
the REDS ARE STAYIN UP

 

[TMFwanstead]

It's a dog's dinner but I didn't see many of us complaining (me included) when we heard Everton were getting 10 points deducted earlier this season

Let's be honest. When it's happening to any other team than your own in the same league we welcome and celebrate stuff like this happening

Agreed but the more I looked into it and the more that has come out subsequently made me think it a farce. The fact the premier league is changing it also speaks volumes. The integrity of the league has been compromised because how the process has been implemented. The emphasis that there has to be a penalty point sanction because of sporting advantage when sporting advantage is rampant elsewhere in the premier league is laughable. There is disadvantage in the process itself with promoted clubs having a much smaller limit than the other clubs.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

It's a dog's dinner but I didn't see many of us complaining (me included) when we heard Everton were getting 10 points deducted earlier this season

Let's be honest. When it's happening to any other team than your own in the same league we welcome and celebrate stuff like this happening

I didn't see us celebrating all that much either?

In the premier league you'll take anything that helps, but I don't think any of us really thought it was going to help us that much way back then?

If anything, I think a few of us recognised that actually it was going to make our imminent game with them much harder, which it probably did?

 

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

Agreed but the more I looked into it and the more that has come out subsequently made me think it a farce. The fact the premier league is changing it also speaks volumes. The integrity of the league has been compromised because how the process has been implemented. The emphasis that there has to be a penalty point sanction because of sporting advantage when sporting advantage is rampant elsewhere in the premier league is laughable. There is disadvantage in the process itself with promoted clubs having a much smaller limit than the other clubs.

But I bet you only looked into it once we were impacted?

Pretty much every club apart from Everton won't have any sympathy for us right now

The opposite really

 

[TMFwanstead]

But I bet you only looked into it once we were impacted?

Pretty much every club apart from Everton won't have any sympathy for us right now

The opposite really

Not at all. I watched toffee tv at the time and read articles. I think the process is so compromised I would give them their points back and replace them with a transfer embargo and ensure that the new process that’s coming in has coded sanctions . Giving penalty points so far in the season with only subjective thoughts to what that should be is ludicrous.
They even changed the rules for long contracts to try and stop Chelsea getting around it by spreading out the wages Making it up as you go along isn’t great is it? Also they even changed the name from FFP to PSR because they know it’s not fair!

 

[Polly 433]

I didn't see us celebrating all that much either?

In the premier league you'll take anything that helps, but I don't think any of us really thought it was going to help us that much way back then?

If anything, I think a few of us recognised that actually it was going to make our imminent game with them much harder, which it probably did?

For the last three seasons everyone knew Everton was breaking the rules. The PL even discussed a plan with them to ensure compliance. Everyone also knows Man City have been breaking the rules as had Chelsea, who admitted such. The problem was the PL didn’t enforce the rules so no one abided by them.

Last season the PL decided to enforce rules not by a sensible enforcement but by shooting every 25th soldier. You can appeal against being shot but the bullet will still kill you.

Everton last season but shot this and Everton again and Forest are the shot soldiers. Everyone will march in line from now on. Job jobbed they just need to be seen to follow the process of shooting soldiers.

Change the rules to a more sensible measurement with prescribed instantaneous penalties and problem solved. Except for Man City and Chelsea and that Everton and Forest don’t like playing dead and could go to court.

Answer come up with a flesh wound for Forest and Everton and agree a small penalty at the start of season for the other two. And hope it all goes away. New beginning.

 

[BlackGold]

I hope we get something, going to be singing this for weeks

Tsamina mina eh eh
waka ay ay
Points deduction who gives a fuck
the REDS ARE STAYIN UP

Im saddened that a fine and upstanding member of the Vital community would revel in such grubby cultural appropriation.

Must try harder, Polo!

 

[Marco Polo]

I feel I’ve let the whole place down

 

[FeNris]

I feel I’ve let the whole place down

Yep, Vital is one big bouncy castle chap.

 

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

I feel I’ve let the whole place down

You've let your whole family down as well sadly

 

[chandos9]

Apart from the fact that its a three point penalty for failing to ensure a game takes place, its a great idea.

And there is precedent on this one; Middlesbrough were deducted three points for failing to ensure a game against Blackburn went ahead in 1997

And Middlesbrough got relegated because of it, since without those three points, they would have stayed up.

 

[finbar70]

So doomsday Monday is approaching. I am hoping its no more than 3 points and that we appeal ANY points deduction.

Then we have the Everton appeal, I think is this week? Will there sanction match ours?

 

[paz1967]

i will guess 4. if wed have beaten luton it would have been 6 :)

 

[paz1967]

So doomsday Monday is approaching. I am hoping its no more than 3 points and that we appeal ANY points deduction.

Then we have the Everton appeal, I think is this week? Will there sanction match ours?

i dont want an appeal if its 6 or less

 

[finbar70]

i dont want an appeal if its 6 or less

Why? I'd appeal if its 1 point, just to put the 'See you next Tuesdays' through the ringer and spend more cash

 

[paz1967]

Why? I'd appeal if its 1 point, just to put the 'See you next Tuesdays' through the ringer and spend more cash

Cos it would be a total mockery of the game. We cant end a season not knowing who finished where. So just the obvious basic stuff really.
plus I suppose, id rather just take my medicine and stop whinging like a melt over everything that goes aganst us, the owner will get what he deserves, be that staying up or going down, that's the karma/darma type stuff