What Are The Options Going Forward | Page 2 | Vital Football

What Are The Options Going Forward

Fevvers said:
Real Deal said; I would rather a young manager brought in now. Who that is I don't know. As long as that guy's philosophy is to play attacking and aggressive football with the mind of buying the best young talent around and playing the youth players I'm cool with that.

Pompey said; What we need is a young vibrant manager, who? I haven't a bloody clue.

Well I do, Graham Potter!
I knew nothing about him, but seeing how his team was set up and came at us recently, I saw him as a prospect and wanted to know more. This is what I found;
Potter is recognised for his "progressive" and "unconventional" coaching methods .He describes his teams as "tactically flexible, attacking and possession-based" deploying flexible formations centred on ball possession and going forward.
Along with the "holistic" training principles he observed (and applies) during his travels in Spain. Potter also cites the "philosophy of Pep Guardiola" and "Raymond Verheijen's periodisationl" among his influences.
Replying to RD's and Pompey's calls, that's enough for me!!
I know where BHA are in the table, so what! Compare their man-for-man quality to ours. This guy is young, ambitious, exciting ,with a great philosophy, just what we need to re-establish the SPURS identity and onward to prosperity.
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Fevvers, thanks for that, I must admit I had thought of GP, but just brushed it aside, your description of him and his learnings has started to make me think a whole lot deeper, trouble is, am not sure it will happen.
 
Real Deal said:
What have this current group won?

If you are not winning trophies on a regular basis then rebuilding is necessary.
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RD but that could also be down to the wrong type of coaches/managers, Poch often effed it up, as much as liked him, his inexperience with big ego's showed, then we get Moaninasaurus, another total 100% eff up, third time lucky maybe.
 
The calibre of players in our team has dropped compared to 4 or 5 years ago.
Our keeper is not what he was.
Our defence had Walker and Rose at their peak with Toby and Vert as arguably the best CB combo in the PL.
Our MF had a fit Wanyama, Dembele, Dele and Eriksen.
Our forwards are the same but older, we do have a small improvement in Vinnie over Llorente or Janssen.
An average age comparison might be worth doing also.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
The calibre of players in our team has dropped compared to 4 or 5 years ago.
Our keeper is not what he was.
Our defence had Walker and Rose at their peak with Toby and Vert as arguably the best CB combo in the PL.
Our MF had a fit Wanyama, Dembele, Dele and Eriksen.
Our forwards are the same but older, we do have a small improvement in Vinnie over Llorente or Janssen.
An average age comparison might be worth doing also.
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No doubt about the fact Nick that this current squad is nowhere close to the team that had those players at their peak.
Possibly the real issue though is whether the current squad, irrespective of who manages them, has the potential to evolve and improve to the same extent that Pochettino's squad did.
I'd say that that is pretty unlikely. Will Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Lo Celso and Bergwijn ever come close to giving us what Wanyama, Dembele, Dele and Eriksen gave us. I doubt it.
Will we find a centre back pairing out of Tanganga, Sanchez and Rodon, who can come close to matching the pairing of Alderweireld and Vertonghen. Maybe over time, but again I doubt it.
As far as full backs are concerned, we are still in the starting stalls.
 
SmithAndJones said:
No doubt about the fact Nick that this current squad is nowhere close to the team that had those players at their peak.
Possibly the real issue though is whether the current squad, irrespective of who manages them, has the potential to evolve and improve to the same extent that Pochettino's squad did.
I'd say that that is pretty unlikely. Will Hojbjerg, Ndombele, Lo Celso and Bergwijn ever come close to giving us what Wanyama, Dembele, Dele and Eriksen gave us. I doubt it.
Will we find a centre back pairing out of Tanganga, Sanchez and Rodon, who can come close to matching the pairing of Alderweireld and Vertonghen. Maybe over time, but again I doubt it.
As far as full backs are concerned, we are still in the starting stalls.
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I think the biggest problem is that our current manager can't get a tune out of the team, and flatly refuses to play certain combos of attacking players together.

I would think that most managers would have no qualms playing these 6 together:

Hojbjerg, Ndombele
Gio, Dele, Son
Kane

High energy, high technical ability, and the ability to dominate teams. With Reggie raiding down the left, we'd have our Rose as well playing with them.

We're a million miles from that previous defensive spine of Lloris, Toby, Jan, Wanyama, Dembele though. We've also never replaced Walker in 4 years of trying.

By the time the defence is fixed, the attacking players will be gone and we'll be back to fixing that part of the team. It will be like one big game of whack-a-mole !!!
 
muttley said:
I think the biggest problem is that our current manager can't get a tune out of the team, and flatly refuses to play certain combos of attacking players together.

I would think that most managers would have no qualms playing these 6 together:

Hojbjerg, Ndombele
Gio, Dele, Son
Kane

High energy, high technical ability, and the ability to dominate teams. With Reggie raiding down the left, we'd have our Rose as well playing with them.

We're a million miles from that previous defensive spine of Lloris, Toby, Jan, Wanyama, Dembele though. We've also never replaced Walker in 4 years of trying.

By the time the defence is fixed, the attacking players will be gone and we'll be back to fixing that part of the team. It will be like one big game of whack-a-mole !!!
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muttley, when did we sign whack-a-mole, does he play in the hole? lol!
 
An article quotes Spurs made a loss of 64 mil last year but are set to have the biggest gate money potential in the PL when the fans can return. It is suggested a big money sale may be used to offset the 64 mil loss.
 
Real Deal said:
...[snip].....

I would rather a young manager brought in now. Another Poch. Who that is I don't know.

As long as that guy's philosophy is to play attacking and aggressive football with the mind of buying the best young talent around and playing the youth players I'm cool with that.

.......
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There's this Dutch guy.....

Potter & Parker.... Sounds like a Haberdashery.

Both interesting ideas.

Better get Jose's hands off the throat of the club, and quick!

This talk of a necessary player squad rebuild is absolute hogwash, and a truly terrible idea. Watching Spurs fans twist 180% on these guys since even just before this season, is pretty amazing. I mean for some, it must actually physically hurt it's such a dramatic and polar shift. And all based upon the results from bad coaching. Crazy stuff.

.
 
Greavswasthegreatest said:
It is about time we reaped the rewards of our supposed world class wonderful academy set up ...FFS or sack the aresoles running it and producing little end product...
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There's a slew of them coming. Scarlett is a pro now. Have you had a check-in on 'Ole Jack Clarke per chance? Skipp is gonna be Canaries POY. There's this Alfie kid..... And a good group we've seen a bit of already (White, Lavinier, etc.) and some most fans haven't yet.

Academy is good sir.

.
 
xvausch said:
There's a slew of them coming. Scarlett is a pro now. Have you had a check-in on 'Ole Jack Clarke per chance? Skipp is gonna be Canaries POY. There's this Alfie kid..... And a good group we've seen a bit of already (White, Lavinier, etc.) and some most fans haven't yet.

Academy is good sir.

.
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How many seriously being blooded into the first team squad really eh!
 
xvausch said:
There's this Dutch guy.....

Potter & Parker.... Sounds like a Haberdashery.

Both interesting ideas.

Better get Jose's hands off the throat of the club, and quick!

This talk of a necessary player squad rebuild is absolute hogwash, and a truly terrible idea. Watching Spurs fans twist 180% on these guys since even just before this season, is pretty amazing. I mean for some, it must actually physically hurt it's such a dramatic and polar shift. And all based upon the results from bad coaching. Crazy stuff.

.
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I'm not sure that anybody has been turning against the players or advocating the rebuild of the squad, most of the speculation has focused on the likelihood of Kane, Son and Reguilon potentially not being at Spurs next season of their own choosing, whereby a rebuild becomes inevitable.
 
SmithAndJones said:
I'm not sure that anybody has been turning against the players or advocating the rebuild of the squad, most of the speculation has focused on the likelihood of Kane, Son and Reguilon potentially not being at Spurs next season of their own choosing, whereby a rebuild becomes inevitable.
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We're rebuilding our backline. We're in the middle of rebuilding our MF. The last thing we need atm is to rebuild our front line.
 
xvausch said:
There's a slew of them coming. Scarlett is a pro now. Have you had a check-in on 'Ole Jack Clarke per chance? Skipp is gonna be Canaries POY. There's this Alfie kid..... And a good group we've seen a bit of already (White, Lavinier, etc.) and some most fans haven't yet.

Academy is good sir.

.
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Problem is that we've given Jose 9 subs and he'll still turn around to the 3 youngest and tell them they've missed the cut for the matchday squad. He clearly prioritizes experience over ability.

We shouldn't be suprised if guys like Skipp get frustrated under Jose. I hope he stays at Norwich for another season if Jose is still our manager next season.
 
muttley said:
Problem is that we've given Jose 9 subs and he'll still turn around to the 3 youngest and tell them they've missed the cut for the matchday squad. He clearly prioritizes experience over ability.

We shouldn't be suprised if guys like Skipp get frustrated under Jose. I hope he stays at Norwich for another season if Jose is still our manager next season.
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I certainly wasn't working under the assumption that Jose would be seen again after the seasons end.

That seems highly likely at the moment.

.
 
xvausch said:
There's this Dutch guy.....

Potter & Parker.... Sounds like a Haberdashery.

Both interesting ideas.

Better get Jose's hands off the throat of the club, and quick!

This talk of a necessary player squad rebuild is absolute hogwash, and a truly terrible idea. Watching Spurs fans twist 180% on these guys since even just before this season, is pretty amazing. I mean for some, it must actually physically hurt it's such a dramatic and polar shift. And all based upon the results from bad coaching. Crazy stuff.

.
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Poor coaching or not we still have a squad full of average players.

Wait till our 4 best players leave.

Oh I can't wait to see Gaz in goal not moving for anything, Aurier pretending he is Cafu, Dier pretending he is leading the back line, Sissoko pretending he is Viera and everyone pretending Lamela is never injured and our Messi.

Yeah great times ahead.
 
I can understand the frustration. Coming so close to winning a PL & CL title it's been difficult to watch us fall behind again. We have a good crop of youngsters & 2 or 3 worldies that are holding things together atm. Our latest signings however bar the one or two simply haven't been good enough. That must change. No more sticking plasters are required, we need the real deal.
 
Real Deal said:
...[snip]...

we still have a squad full of average players.

...[snip]....
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This is where you'll lose me every single time.

We do NOT have average players. We have a squad of top level world footballers, that can play with ANY team of their best day. ANY TEAM.

And the second place you lose me is...

"Poor coaching or not ...."

In four words, you dismissed THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF A TEAM'S SUCCESS. No team will succeed without good quality coaching. End of. A squad of top class players will win SHIT with a crappy coach (See Jose at Spurs 2021), and a Very Good coach will take a team of decent players, and win things with them. Nuno/Carlo/ETC.

Imagine what a GREAT coach can do with GREAT players? And do you even know how great your players can be, until they're put in their best situation to succeed?

Coaching talent trumps players talent in the overall success metric every time.

.
 
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