What Are The Options Going Forward | Vital Football

What Are The Options Going Forward

SmithAndJones

Vital Squad Member
#1
Some interesting discussion and debate on the forum recently, both relative to the Mourinho issue and the longer term viability of a number of our players, with not unexpectedly some widely diverging views.
To my mind we have a number of scenarios currently, all of which probably leave us in between a rock and a hard place.

- Somehow we scramble a fourth place and qualify for the CL whereby Mourinho keeps his job. I don't think that this will happen, the top three are out of sight, and I don't see Chelsea gathering less points than us over the balance of the season.

- If somehow Mourinho survives courtesy of our qualifying for the CL, will some of our best players stay on the strength of the CL qualification, knowing that they will still be working with Mourinho, whereby there will probably be very little confidence amongst them that things will genuinely get better to the point that Spurs get anywhere close to meeting their personal aspirations. There is nothing worse than demotivated players who don't really want to be there.

- If we don't qualify for the CL I am assuming that the Club will send Mourinho on his way. Assuming that another 'top' coach, say Benitez as an example, agreed to join Spurs, would our best players, without CL football, be prepared to give it another go, if alternatively faced with the opportunity of joining one of the top Clubs in Europe.

- Would the Club accept the scenario that we are pretty much back where we were at the time that Pochettino came on board, and give a young up and comer the opportunity to 'do a Poch' over the course of yet another five year project, probably without our best players who will no doubt have decided enough is enough, whereby the Club decides it is opportune to cash in on them.

I don't entirely rule out a new manager starting next season with a line up that looks something like;
Lloris or AN Other
Tanganga, Sanchez, Rodon, Sessegnon
Hojbjerg
Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bergwijn
Moura, Vinicius

Subs: Hart, Alderweireld, Davies, Sissoko, Skipp, Lamela, Clarke, Parrott
Academy Up and Comers - Cirkin, Devine, Scarlett.

Subject to the above squad being strengthened at the outset by two signings financed by the sale of players, with more to come for the new manager at such time that his 'project' is seen to be progressing in the right direction.

This squad will not at the outset be top four candidates, probably not top half to begin with, but it wouldn't be relegation material either. It's managerial leadership, and financing by Levy when required, would be the factors that determine whether there will be success further down the line.
 
#2
What have we learned from the last 5 years.....

1) If you have a choice of selling a top player or trying to coerce them into sticking around (whilst letting them run their contract down), it's an easy decision. Just sell them for top dollar now. Remember how players like Eriksen just shut down on us over 2 years and gave us very little on the pitch.

2) Don't buy older players. If you're building something then build it from the ground up. We were at our best when the squad was growing together. A few of them started as U21 free-picks and grew into 1st team stalwarts. Make this a policy.

3) Don't ever buy more than 3 or 4 players in any window. It always ends in disaster and always will. Focus on quality over quantity, even though at times it feels like the squad is "too small". That never happens as the youngsters always plug the gaps anyway.

What needs to be done is staring us squarely in the face. It's not difficult. Just plan for a manager change and some player changes, and then only focus on looking forward.
 
#3
Some interesting discussion and debate on the forum recently, both relative to the Mourinho issue and the longer term viability of a number of our players, with not unexpectedly some widely diverging views.
To my mind we have a number of scenarios currently, all of which probably leave us in between a rock and a hard place.

- Somehow we scramble a fourth place and qualify for the CL whereby Mourinho keeps his job. I don't think that this will happen, the top three are out of sight, and I don't see Chelsea gathering less points than us over the balance of the season.

- If somehow Mourinho survives courtesy of our qualifying for the CL, will some of our best players stay on the strength of the CL qualification, knowing that they will still be working with Mourinho, whereby there will probably be very little confidence amongst them that things will genuinely get better to the point that Spurs get anywhere close to meeting their personal aspirations. There is nothing worse than demotivated players who don't really want to be there.

- If we don't qualify for the CL I am assuming that the Club will send Mourinho on his way. Assuming that another 'top' coach, say Benitez as an example, agreed to join Spurs, would our best players, without CL football, be prepared to give it another go, if alternatively faced with the opportunity of joining one of the top Clubs in Europe.

- Would the Club accept the scenario that we are pretty much back where we were at the time that Pochettino came on board, and give a young up and comer the opportunity to 'do a Poch' over the course of yet another five year project, probably without our best players who will no doubt have decided enough is enough, whereby the Club decides it is opportune to cash in on them.

I don't entirely rule out a new manager starting next season with a line up that looks something like;
Lloris or AN Other
Tanganga, Sanchez, Rodon, Sessegnon
Hojbjerg
Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bergwijn
Moura, Vinicius

Subs: Hart, Alderweireld, Davies, Sissoko, Skipp, Lamela, Clarke, Parrott
Academy Up and Comers - Cirkin, Devine, Scarlett.

Subject to the above squad being strengthened at the outset by two signings financed by the sale of players, with more to come for the new manager at such time that his 'project' is seen to be progressing in the right direction.

This squad will not at the outset be top four candidates, probably not top half to begin with, but it wouldn't be relegation material either. It's managerial leadership, and financing by Levy when required, would be the factors that determine whether there will be success further down the line.
great post.
 
#4
Some interesting discussion and debate on the forum recently, both relative to the Mourinho issue and the longer term viability of a number of our players, with not unexpectedly some widely diverging views.
To my mind we have a number of scenarios currently, all of which probably leave us in between a rock and a hard place.

- Somehow we scramble a fourth place and qualify for the CL whereby Mourinho keeps his job. I don't think that this will happen, the top three are out of sight, and I don't see Chelsea gathering less points than us over the balance of the season.

- If somehow Mourinho survives courtesy of our qualifying for the CL, will some of our best players stay on the strength of the CL qualification, knowing that they will still be working with Mourinho, whereby there will probably be very little confidence amongst them that things will genuinely get better to the point that Spurs get anywhere close to meeting their personal aspirations. There is nothing worse than demotivated players who don't really want to be there.

- If we don't qualify for the CL I am assuming that the Club will send Mourinho on his way. Assuming that another 'top' coach, say Benitez as an example, agreed to join Spurs, would our best players, without CL football, be prepared to give it another go, if alternatively faced with the opportunity of joining one of the top Clubs in Europe.

- Would the Club accept the scenario that we are pretty much back where we were at the time that Pochettino came on board, and give a young up and comer the opportunity to 'do a Poch' over the course of yet another five year project, probably without our best players who will no doubt have decided enough is enough, whereby the Club decides it is opportune to cash in on them.

I don't entirely rule out a new manager starting next season with a line up that looks something like;
Lloris or AN Other
Tanganga, Sanchez, Rodon, Sessegnon
Hojbjerg
Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bergwijn
Moura, Vinicius

Subs: Hart, Alderweireld, Davies, Sissoko, Skipp, Lamela, Clarke, Parrott
Academy Up and Comers - Cirkin, Devine, Scarlett.

Subject to the above squad being strengthened at the outset by two signings financed by the sale of players, with more to come for the new manager at such time that his 'project' is seen to be progressing in the right direction.

This squad will not at the outset be top four candidates, probably not top half to begin with, but it wouldn't be relegation material either. It's managerial leadership, and financing by Levy when required, would be the factors that determine whether there will be success further down the line.
I think the problem is, that mainly because of Jose, our best players are all scrambling for the exit; hence why Jose was taking a dig at the agents, who've all been banging on Levy's door to have their say and to let the club know they want away.
 

vinniecopenhagen

Vital 1st Team Regular
#5
Some interesting discussion and debate on the forum recently, both relative to the Mourinho issue and the longer term viability of a number of our players, with not unexpectedly some widely diverging views.
To my mind we have a number of scenarios currently, all of which probably leave us in between a rock and a hard place.

- Somehow we scramble a fourth place and qualify for the CL whereby Mourinho keeps his job. I don't think that this will happen, the top three are out of sight, and I don't see Chelsea gathering less points than us over the balance of the season.

- If somehow Mourinho survives courtesy of our qualifying for the CL, will some of our best players stay on the strength of the CL qualification, knowing that they will still be working with Mourinho, whereby there will probably be very little confidence amongst them that things will genuinely get better to the point that Spurs get anywhere close to meeting their personal aspirations. There is nothing worse than demotivated players who don't really want to be there.

- If we don't qualify for the CL I am assuming that the Club will send Mourinho on his way. Assuming that another 'top' coach, say Benitez as an example, agreed to join Spurs, would our best players, without CL football, be prepared to give it another go, if alternatively faced with the opportunity of joining one of the top Clubs in Europe.

- Would the Club accept the scenario that we are pretty much back where we were at the time that Pochettino came on board, and give a young up and comer the opportunity to 'do a Poch' over the course of yet another five year project, probably without our best players who will no doubt have decided enough is enough, whereby the Club decides it is opportune to cash in on them.

I don't entirely rule out a new manager starting next season with a line up that looks something like;
Lloris or AN Other
Tanganga, Sanchez, Rodon, Sessegnon
Hojbjerg
Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bergwijn
Moura, Vinicius

Subs: Hart, Alderweireld, Davies, Sissoko, Skipp, Lamela, Clarke, Parrott
Academy Up and Comers - Cirkin, Devine, Scarlett.

Subject to the above squad being strengthened at the outset by two signings financed by the sale of players, with more to come for the new manager at such time that his 'project' is seen to be progressing in the right direction.

This squad will not at the outset be top four candidates, probably not top half to begin with, but it wouldn't be relegation material either. It's managerial leadership, and financing by Levy when required, would be the factors that determine whether there will be success further down the line.
Good post S & J, I personally wouldn't object to Kane not hanging around for another season,he's at the peak of his career,one of the best strikers in the world and deserves honours.Not so much Son,he will never be as big as Kane and will be a superstar in his own right if he stays. There has to be a managerial change,a complete rebuild with young players from the academy and a couple of signings with potential. Then I would happily accept a couple of seasons midtable. Time to wipe the slate clean and start again,the thought of another season with Mourinho, regardless of whether we get top 4 or a cup,is too hard to stomach.
 

Pompey Yid

Vital Squad Member
#6
Good post S & J, I personally wouldn't object to Kane not hanging around for another season,he's at the peak of his career,one of the best strikers in the world and deserves honours.Not so much Son,he will never be as big as Kane and will be a superstar in his own right if he stays. There has to be a managerial change,a complete rebuild with young players from the academy and a couple of signings with potential. Then I would happily accept a couple of seasons midtable. Time to wipe the slate clean and start again,the thought of another season with Mourinho, regardless of whether we get top 4 or a cup,is too hard to stomach.
100% with you there vinnie.
 

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
#7
Can our debt and operational costs be serviced by gate revenue, sponsorship and tv money ? Or will we have to sell players to get back on track ?
If our signings budget is governed by player sales we have plenty to let go. But will the money raised be enough to get us into the top 4 ? Could any manager do it with an inferior squad compared to the big clubs. ?
 

USAFSPURS

Vital Champions League
#8
Good post S & J, I personally wouldn't object to Kane not hanging around for another season,he's at the peak of his career,one of the best strikers in the world and deserves honours.Not so much Son,he will never be as big as Kane and will be a superstar in his own right if he stays. There has to be a managerial change,a complete rebuild with young players from the academy and a couple of signings with potential. Then I would happily accept a couple of seasons midtable. Time to wipe the slate clean and start again,the thought of another season with Mourinho, regardless of whether we get top 4 or a cup,is too hard to stomach.
Ditto, mirrored this is many other posts. Spot on Vinnie my friend!
 
#9
Like it or not on the field we are now in a similar situation to when AVB/ Tim were in charge.

Ex will know but the reality is due to Covid we have been set back 3 years plus.

That means the project has changed.

I would rather a young manager brought in now. Another Poch. Who that is I don't know.

As long as that guy's philosophy is to play attacking and aggressive football with the mind of buying the best young talent around and playing the youth players I'm cool with that.

I don't see any other way the project can work over the next few years.

Keeping jose for the next 2 years is suicide.
 
#10
Like it or not on the field we are now in a similar situation to when AVB/ Tim were in charge.

Ex will know but the reality is due to Covid we have been set back 3 years plus.

That means the project has changed.

I would rather a young manager brought in now. Another Poch. Who that is I don't know.

As long as that guy's philosophy is to play attacking and aggressive football with the mind of buying the best young talent around and playing the youth players I'm cool with that.

I don't see any other way the project can work over the next few years.

Keeping jose for the next 2 years is suicide.
Spot on. It's also probably easier than when Poch took over.

There were 18 players shifted in his joining summer and another 19 players in his first proper summer. At that time squad numbers had proliferated to extreme levels. Poch just went to work and ruthlessly culled until he had it streamlined.

I don't think our next manager would need to do that. The squad is mostly streamlined and guys like Bale can just be driven to the airport.
 
#12
Spot on. It's also probably easier than when Poch took over.

There were 18 players shifted in his joining summer and another 19 players in his first proper summer. At that time squad numbers had proliferated to extreme levels. Poch just went to work and ruthlessly culled until he had it streamlined.

I don't think our next manager would need to do that. The squad is mostly streamlined and guys like Bale can just be driven to the airport.
Depends on expectations. I really don't rate most of the squad. I see too many players that have been here for a long period of time that are not good enough.

I hope to see more of Tanganga, Rodon, Skipp, Sess next season.

I don't want to see tripe like Gaz, Aurier. Doherty, Dier, Sissoko, Lamela anywhere near the club next season.

Lucas has earned another year.

With the future of Hugo, Reggie, Son and Kane also up in the air the rebuild could quite easily become our biggest yet.

As it stands a 1st 11 RB and 1st 11 LCB for me are top priorities.
 

Pompey Yid

Vital Squad Member
#14
As soon as something isn't quite right, its rebuild! always the bleedin same, yes there are some mmm! players that need to be replaced, but not a wholesale rebuild, what we need first is a young vibrant manager, who? I haven't a bloody clue.
 

SmithAndJones

Vital Squad Member
#15
Do we burn down the house and rebuild? Or do we build a high end addition and take ourselves to the next level?
Depends to what extent the house is burnt down. That will only be determined by where we finish the season, which will then determine who wants to manage and play for us next season. Bringing in one or two high quality players and a different manager to build that high end would be nice, but there are too many variables at the moment as to whether it will be possible.
 

Fevvers

Vital Youth Team
#16
Real Deal said; I would rather a young manager brought in now. Who that is I don't know. As long as that guy's philosophy is to play attacking and aggressive football with the mind of buying the best young talent around and playing the youth players I'm cool with that.

Pompey said; What we need is a young vibrant manager, who? I haven't a bloody clue.

Well I do, Graham Potter!
I knew nothing about him, but seeing how his team was set up and came at us recently, I saw him as a prospect and wanted to know more. This is what I found;
Potter is recognised for his "progressive" and "unconventional" coaching methods .He describes his teams as "tactically flexible, attacking and possession-based" deploying flexible formations centred on ball possession and going forward.
Along with the "holistic" training principles he observed (and applies) during his travels in Spain. Potter also cites the "philosophy of Pep Guardiola" and "Raymond Verheijen's periodisationl" among his influences.
Replying to RD's and Pompey's calls, that's enough for me!!
I know where BHA are in the table, so what! Compare their man-for-man quality to ours. This guy is young, ambitious, exciting ,with a great philosophy, just what we need to re-establish the SPURS identity and onward to prosperity.
 

SmithAndJones

Vital Squad Member
#17
Real Deal said; I would rather a young manager brought in now. Who that is I don't know. As long as that guy's philosophy is to play attacking and aggressive football with the mind of buying the best young talent around and playing the youth players I'm cool with that.

Pompey said; What we need is a young vibrant manager, who? I haven't a bloody clue.

Well I do, Graham Potter!
I knew nothing about him, but seeing how his team was set up and came at us recently, I saw him as a prospect and wanted to know more. This is what I found;
Potter is recognised for his "progressive" and "unconventional" coaching methods .He describes his teams as "tactically flexible, attacking and possession-based" deploying flexible formations centred on ball possession and going forward.
Along with the "holistic" training principles he observed (and applies) during his travels in Spain. Potter also cites the "philosophy of Pep Guardiola" and "Raymond Verheijen's periodisationl" among his influences.
Replying to RD's and Pompey's calls, that's enough for me!!
I know where BHA are in the table, so what! Compare their man-for-man quality to ours. This guy is young, ambitious, exciting ,with a great philosophy, just what we need to re-establish the SPURS identity and onward to prosperity.
We'd certainly get more entertainment, BHA are always attractive to watch.
 
#20
Real Deal said; I would rather a young manager brought in now. Who that is I don't know. As long as that guy's philosophy is to play attacking and aggressive football with the mind of buying the best young talent around and playing the youth players I'm cool with that.

Pompey said; What we need is a young vibrant manager, who? I haven't a bloody clue.

Well I do, Graham Potter!
I knew nothing about him, but seeing how his team was set up and came at us recently, I saw him as a prospect and wanted to know more. This is what I found;
Potter is recognised for his "progressive" and "unconventional" coaching methods .He describes his teams as "tactically flexible, attacking and possession-based" deploying flexible formations centred on ball possession and going forward.
Along with the "holistic" training principles he observed (and applies) during his travels in Spain. Potter also cites the "philosophy of Pep Guardiola" and "Raymond Verheijen's periodisationl" among his influences.
Replying to RD's and Pompey's calls, that's enough for me!!
I know where BHA are in the table, so what! Compare their man-for-man quality to ours. This guy is young, ambitious, exciting ,with a great philosophy, just what we need to re-establish the SPURS identity and onward to prosperity.
He would be a massive gamble. But so was Jose.

I don't know enough about Potter to be honest.