We're nor singing any more | Page 2 | Vital Football

We're nor singing any more

macstheman said:
Bruce gave an insight to the Hull situation when he said that he did'nt fully focus his players on the replay and that they had the final on their mind. With regard to Clement he was a complete rookie and left before facing 'the wall' whilst Pearson had shown at other clubs he could modify his tactics but did'nt get the chance at Derby. SM made the same mistake twice and had zilch flexibility. Facts are pointing towards GR falling into the same category.
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Yes, Clement was a ‘rookie’ but the pattern was exactly the same...indifferent start...then virtually invincible (except for the Forest match)...go top on Boxing Day, after an abysmal performance at home to Fulham and then into inexplicable free fall until Clement was sacked, about six weeks later, leaving Wassall to try and pick up the pieces.
McClaren 1 looked like he could make match defining changes until Wembley imo...but Mc2 was another example of a Derby manager being hopeless from January onwards.
 
Good question Mista and one without an obvious answer to!! My assessment is based on what happens when a manager runs into problems. Look at Staam at Reading, last season everything went well and promo looked a strong possibility this year but they got off to a bad start and he could'nt turn it around and got the chop. Was this the first time he'd hit the wall as a manager and couldn't sort it? Is this the first time GR has hit the wall?? Either way he has not responded well to this major challenge to his managerial career.
 
ramAnag said:
Yes, Clement was a ‘rookie’ but the pattern was exactly the same...indifferent start...then virtually invincible (except for the Forest match)...go top on Boxing Day, after an abysmal performance at home to Fulham and then into inexplicable free fall until Clement was sacked, about six weeks later, leaving Wassall to try and pick up the pieces.
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To me rA that proves my point. Clement was sacked (for whatever reason) and Wassall got some good results from the same players!! Clement could not turn it around (though was he given long enough??) but under Wassall those players again produced results!!
 
Mistaram said:
Hard to argue with that Mac only Pearson only did it with Leicester because he has the brains of Shakespeare just ask any foxes fan How did Rowett take Brum from 21st relegation looming to finish just outside the playoffs
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Who knows? Once tipped as an upcoming manager, now looking like just another coach who cannot get a group of players to play together and win games!

I suppose we should take heart, Yap Staam got Reading in the playoffs last season and this year zilch and paid the price! Mind you they have appointed Clement so WTF?

Warburton lauded over what he did at Brentford, got sacked, went to rangers did Okish, went to forest, now sacked.

Rowett's position would be much stronger, if he was building a side, but he has apart from lawrence mainly bought old "has beens" and it shows - for me his signings smacked of we will get players whose names are known but none have been a success and none will be any use next season.
 
In terms of 'building a club' we have gone back 5 years. Yes, we've challenged for promo but the current squad would need 90+ percent surgery which even with Prem dosh would be a massive undertaking. The annual January buying of stocking fillers has totally taken away any sense of squad development resulting in the creation of a bloated group of has been and never willbe tripehounds who could'nt believe their luck when Derby came calling!
 
See your point...but that doesn’t answer why Derby sides consistently and repeatedly screw up from January onwards. Okay, last year was understandably different but 2015, 2016 and now 2018...get into a great position and then...disaster!
I mean sixteen points from fifteen games from a team that was sitting pretty in 2nd just three months ago...what are the chances?
Just ridiculous...a-bloody-gain!
 
Well, as I say, you must look up the tree when a bird shits on you. At the top is the main man, next is his commander. They are the common denominator!! You takes your pick. Me, I go for the Commander. Just because it's a different commander don't mean owt. Unfortunately, the main man picks the wrong commander several times!!
 
Manofpride said:
If a team of players can't motivate themselves to get 3 points against relegation fodder and to have a chance to make the play offs and be in with a chance to play in the Premiership, Then there's no chance!
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You just have to look who we play or have in the squad. Huddlestone, Ledley, Davies, Weimann, Johnson, Nugent, Anya, Jerome to mention a few have all played in the Premiership..............................and are just not too fussed about putting a shift in to do it again.

They enjoy a Premiership, or very good wage for just treading water.
Wolves went the other route. Bought decent players from a foreign Country and hadn't experienced Premiership football. Yes! Wolves bought their place in the Prem, but how much money have we wasted on older 'has been's'?

We need a better scouting and player acquirement team, looking around the WORLD for YOUNG up and coming talent:cool:
 
Quite right Mr H.

The wage levels enjoyed in the bloated halls of the Premiership have now drifted down into the Championship (along with enhanced TV money to fund them) to such an extent that journeyman pros - who we have largely acquired - above a certain age (25, maybe) are no longer motivated to get to the top tier.

In fact they are positively demotivated since promotion will almost certainly see them being cast aside in favour of other players whose careers are in the ascendancy.

its like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. Get us promoted and we will get rid of you, or make you chill your heels outside the match day squad. You might get one last hurrah in the Championship or fall down another tier - or sit on your arse doing nothing on match Day.

Sure you will keep your decent Championship salary, but you will never get the silly money because you're no longer good enough to aspire to that. You will live comfortably on the rump of your salary one way or the other (or lump sum if contract torn up).

Too much money in the system creates this problem - it creates an elite and another intermediate "ghost" tier that you might say are too good for level 2 (but old) and not good enough for level 1. You offer these guys the choice of promotion and dropping to level 3, or getting near enough to level 1 but then fading at the last moment and staying where they are, what do you expect them to do? money is no longer a motivational force if it comes with cessation of your playing days and career.

The monster that has been created will slowly strangle the second tier. Players at this level cannot hack the jump in quality either because they are in the fading days of their career, or have yet to reach their peak. In the main therefore they do not want to move up to Tier 1 as they will lose their job.

Obviously there are a few exceptions, usually younger players who make a "great leap forward", but the money has made it very difficult for any team to manage its way to success with the traditional blend of experience and youth. They need to buy their way up - as did Wolves, Newcastle last year. yes we have tried to spend for success, but, and bless him for trying, we haven't spent half enough to adopt this route.

Our money supply appears to have run out and we have a thoroughly demotivated underperforming and ageing squad. The next couple of years have to be rebuilding years and hoping that the past investment in the academy finally produces a few players who will be given the chance to shine.
 
I agree with many of the sentiments above, been reluctant to voice it so forcefully because I thought it might be just my paranoia showing...however, why doesn’t the same ‘turkeys voting for Christmas’ theory appear to apply equally to such clubs as Cardiff, Villa and even bloomin’ Millwall?

Maybe players should be salaried and then just have a promotion bonus.
 
"Maybe players should be salaried and then just have a promotion bonus." - I would venture to suggest that they are!

Millwall - it hasn't happened to them as they are basically a squad developed last year in Tier 3 and doesn't have the gnarled core of cynical veterans. most Millwall fans that I know didn't want to get promoted to the championship last year for fear of being blown away. They maintain the "no-one loves us, we don't care" approach and have no fear of success because they have already overachieved and are not on fat ex premiership money.

Villa - we saw the effect last year (as we have with Hull and Sunderland this season) but they seem to have bought their better players from the same tier - eg Kodija, Adomah, Hogan, Grabban, Lansbury etc all from Championship level and so they haven't "been there done that".

Cardiff - they are probably s*** scared of Colin! But again most of the money spend on championship or lower players, very few old crocks from the premeirship who have had their heads in the clouds.

Contrast to us - Ledley Huddlestone Johnson Davies Nugent Jerome Weiman Bent all had their premiership days - even add Carson although he is the one success in a sea of effluent (but I do like Weiman in a Jamie Ward sort of way).
 
Roger Ramjet said:
"Maybe players should be salaried and then just have a promotion bonus." - I would venture to suggest that they are!

Millwall - it hasn't happened to them as they are basically a squad developed last year in Tier 3 and doesn't have the gnarled core of cynical veterans. most Millwall fans that I know didn't want to get promoted to the championship last year for fear of being blown away. They maintain the "no-one loves us, we don't care" approach and have no fear of success because they have already overachieved and are not on fat ex premiership money.

Villa - we saw the effect last year (as we have with Hull and Sunderland this season) but they seem to have bought their better players from the same tier - eg Kodija, Adomah, Hogan, Grabban, Lansbury etc all from Championship level and so they haven't "been there done that".

Cardiff - they are probably s*** scared of Colin! But again most of the money spend on championship or lower players, very few old crocks from the premeirship who have had their heads in the clouds.

Contrast to us - Ledley Huddlestone Johnson Davies Nugent Jerome Weiman Bent all had their premiership days - even add Carson although he is the one success in a sea of effluent (but I do like Weiman in a Jamie Ward sort of way).
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I’m fortunate enough not to know any Millwall fans...kind of in the same way as I don’t know any ‘Britain First’ supporters or serial killers...but the same is still going to be true for them and Villa as us...go up...get shipped out, because better players will be needed.

As for being ‘**** scared’ of Colin...why? He looks increasingly like an embittered old pantomime dame who’s spent far too long plucking his eyebrows.
Can understand being ‘frightened’ of Pearson or Pulis..but Warnock? Don’t get it...love to know his secret.
 
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