Webb : ref made a mistake..Arteta, gets away with murder!

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Webb says:

“On this particular occasion, (Talking about the referree here) he sees a pretty strong, reckless foul challenge by Emerson Royal on (Erling) Haaland. It’s in midfield, and the ball comes backwards. He does the hard work, he just hesitates a moment to see if an advantage is possible. But he recognises in his mind, thinking it through, that it was a strong challenge, it was reckless, he is going to have to caution.

“At ground level, it’s not quite so easy to see the way that things are playing out as it is from an elevated view. And he decides to penalise just at the moment as the ball’s about to go, he blows the whistle, and then realises that a wonderful advantage was available. And for sure, he was devastated. He’d refereed the game really well for 93 minutes, but he knows this is going to be the only talking point.

“Really close to the end of the game, I understand the disappointment that Manchester City felt on this one, because it would have been a wonderful advantage. He just formed the opinion to blow just at the wrong time. It looked like he was ready to play advantage.

“I said to him afterwards, ‘Just hold your hands up. It’s difficult to be annoyed at a remorseful man. Just show your disappointment in the moment.’ Because he was certainly feeling that at the time.”

I have to say, for once, a decision surely helped us, but we've also had our fair share of poor ones..Good to see the ref hold his hands up. I wish more would do that.

Well done Webb for making his thoughts known.
 
There was much less uproar because it wasn't a mistake made by VAR. Apart from City fans, or Spurs rival fans, everyone saw it as a mistake in the moment - purely human error. Fans feel this is how it should be, because for wrong decisions to happen when the luxury of slo-mo replay is available in seconds - often with decisions taking minutes to make - is inexcusable to fans.

Human error on the pitch vs human error in the VAR room is the debate most fans are having.
 
Matic said:
There was much less uproar because it wasn't a mistake made by VAR. Apart from City fans, or Spurs rival fans, everyone saw it as a mistake in the moment - purely human error. Fans feel this is how it should be, because for wrong decisions to happen when the luxury of slo-mo replay is available in seconds - often with decisions taking minutes to make - is inexcusable to fans.

Human error on the pitch vs human error in the VAR room is the debate most fans are having.
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Personally, I thought we'd simply given him a bung lol!!
 
My perspective on his whistle blowing was, "shit a Spurs player is going to get Red" I had better blow the whistle lol!
 
The bit I don't understand is "But he recognises in his mind, thinking it through, that it was a strong challenge, it was reckless, he is going to have to caution."

He doesn't have to stop the play to issue a caution. He could have let the play continue to see if there was a material advantage and gone back and booked Royal after the phase of play had finished.

Referees don't do this enough. A player commits a foul worthy of a yellow card, the ref plays advantage but doesn't go back to book the player afterwards. Playing advantage doesn't negate the requirement to issue a yellow card.
 
Matic said:
There was much less uproar because it wasn't a mistake made by VAR. Apart from City fans, or Spurs rival fans, everyone saw it as a mistake in the moment - purely human error. Fans feel this is how it should be, because for wrong decisions to happen when the luxury of slo-mo replay is available in seconds - often with decisions taking minutes to make - is inexcusable to fans.

Human error on the pitch vs human error in the VAR room is the debate most fans are having.
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100%
 
Gary Onedaysoon said:
The bit I don't understand is "But he recognises in his mind, thinking it through, that it was a strong challenge, it was reckless, he is going to have to caution."

He doesn't have to stop the play to issue a caution. He could have let the play continue to see if there was a material advantage and gone back and booked Royal after the phase of play had finished.

Referees don't do this enough. A player commits a foul worthy of a yellow card, the ref plays advantage but doesn't go back to book the player afterwards. Playing advantage doesn't negate the requirement to issue a yellow card.
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Agree, it doesn't happen enough, but it did happen in our favour in a recent game (I forget which one) but an opposing player def got a yellow after the ref had allowed play to go on.
 
freundorfoe said:
City fans were talking like it was a certain goal - it was a dangerous position for sure but if dangerous breaks always equalled goals we'd have a lot more points on the board! and that's not even to account for the fact it was Grealish breaking whose best return for City in a season is 5 goals.
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Plus Davies or Royal would have just pulled him down. A red card with less than minute to play so likely wouldn't have made much difference
 
freundorfoe said:
City fans were talking like it was a certain goal - it was a dangerous position for sure but if dangerous breaks always equalled goals we'd have a lot more points on the board! and that's not even to account for the fact it was Grealish breaking whose best return for City in a season is 5 goals.
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And it was completely ignored how amazing Vicario has been in 1v1's in those exact situations this season. It was no means a dead cert goal.

The only two situations I think the ref could have read the moment wrong is if he thought it was 100% offside and instinctively stopped play for the foul or if he, in a split second, thought Royal was already on a yellow, so was in need of sending off.

It was a bad error, but at feels much more like an honest mistake rather than a poor decision based on VAR or bad rules. Don't get me wrong, if it had happened to us I would have been fuming, but we've had plenty of stinkers go for us and against us already this season.
 
Gary Onedaysoon said:
The bit I don't understand is "But he recognises in his mind, thinking it through, that it was a strong challenge, it was reckless, he is going to have to caution."

He doesn't have to stop the play to issue a caution. He could have let the play continue to see if there was a material advantage and gone back and booked Royal after the phase of play had finished.

Referees don't do this enough. A player commits a foul worthy of a yellow card, the ref plays advantage but doesn't go back to book the player afterwards. Playing advantage doesn't negate the requirement to issue a yellow card.
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I totally agree. I would take it a step further and build an incredibly strong case for the video ref being the best placed official to decide on yellows in these cases. Therefore, the on-pitch ref allowing play to run on makes total sense. However, FIFA/IFAB aren't blessed with common sense and we'll wait years for this implementation.

As for Webb, I'm OK for him to publicly back his team as long as we also see him being ruthless in the background. I don't expect Webb to hang Simon Hooper out to dry, but we all know the quality of Webb's team is nowhere near it needs to be. Same with the culture of the PGMOL team. Hooper could be one of the guys that can make this difficult transition. However, he could also be like Taylor, Pawson and Attwell who need to be ready to walk the plank as Howard improves the quality of his team.
 
I’m all for openness and honesty , but whatever transpired at the end of that game , doesn’t add up.

The ref clearly signals “play on “… then when Harland does just that , he changes his mind .

That fact that City were in a good position has absolutely nothing to do with it .

Did he actually caution Royal for that challenge ? I can’t remember .


It was a mistake , pure and simple .

City have to lose their Entitled emotions .
Webb has to stop pandering to them .

I don’t think Webb has made the situation any better for his ref in what he has said about “‘at ground level , it’s not so easy to see how things are panning out “‘

That is exactly their job and has been for a hundred and thirty years .
If it really is that difficult , put a ball boy in charge of substitutions and put the fourth official in the stand with a walkie talkie .

Or employ someone that actually can run a game .
 
Walthamstow wanderer said:
I’m all for openness and honesty , but whatever transpired at the end of that game , doesn’t add up.

The ref clearly signals “play on “… then when Harland does just that , he changes his mind .

That fact that City were in a good position has absolutely nothing to do with it .

Did he actually caution Royal for that challenge ? I can’t remember .


It was a mistake , pure and simple .

City have to lose their Entitled emotions .
Webb has to stop pandering to them .

I don’t think Webb has made the situation any better for his ref in what he has said about “‘at ground level , it’s not so easy to see how things are panning out “‘

That is exactly their job and has been for a hundred and thirty years .
If it really is that difficult , put a ball boy in charge of substitutions and put the fourth official in the stand with a walkie talkie .

Or employ someone that actually can run a game .
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At least in this case the offending player was booked. As you say, refs should be allowed to make mistakes. Most can be smoothed over if the tech is used correctly. Tech couldn't help this one though.
 
muttley said:
At least in this case the offending player was booked. As you say, refs should be allowed to make mistakes. Most can be smoothed over if the tech is used correctly. Tech couldn't help this one though.
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I cannot see the problem in refs making mistakes .

Players make them all the time ..

managers make them all the time .

Chairmen make them all the time .

Tea ladies make them all the time . (,not pots of tea …Greavsie!!!!)

Is there a difference ?


Who said that officials are not allowed to make mistakes and erroneous decisions must not be allowed .
Was it discussed and voted on .
 
Walthamstow wanderer said:
I cannot see the problem in refs making mistakes .

Players make them all the time ..

managers make them all the time .

Chairmen make them all the time .

Tea ladies make them all the time . (,not pots of tea …Greavsie!!!!)

Is there a difference ?


Who said that officials are not allowed to make mistakes and erroneous decisions must not be allowed .
Was it discussed and voted on .
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My view has always been the same. Use tech to improve the game. Easiest example is goal kick vs corner. All the players appeal, because it is very easy for the ref to call it wrong. However, the video ref can clear it up in an instant. What happens next is interesting. Once we've seen a couple of weeks worth of these decisions then the players don't even argue any more. They just accept it, just like they did with goal line technology. Therefore, we've eliminated goals scored from corners that weren't corners in the first place.

So 2 schools of thought with these. First one is where I believe you sit. That is, over a course of season things will even out. Getting a corner vs goal kick decision wrong is not a big deal and is part of the game. The other is where I come at it from. Just eliminate the mistakes and improve the game.

Thinking back, that is what the original implementation of VAR was mostly about. We saw all these goals given that were offside. We introduced tech to help ensure they don't happen. It was a complete minority at the time that were happy with the offside goals being given. Most were in uproar about the injustice. So VAR was introduced. What happened next was ugly though. They hadn't considered "level" in their technology. The calculation became too surgical and slowed the game down. After all, level is onside in the laws of the game. That debate will run and run until they change the laws and the technology is instant.

If technology is implemented well, it will work alongside humans who are allowed to make mistakes. It just won't let those humans mistakes change outcomes e.g. game results. The biggest human error at the moment is the humans ignoring the very laws of the game they are on the pitch to administer. That is way bigger to the outcome of games than anything tech is or isn't doing. That is the unforgivable piece in my mind.
 
Can't believe the case against Arteta is 'unproven' - so now all you have to d is claim that the interview timing was at an 'emotional' moment!!

The FA really do know how to shoot refs and officials in the back..!

Mikel Arteta has avoided a ban for his post-match comments after Arsenal’s 1-0 defeat at Newcastle United last month.

The Arsenal manager spoke of his “embarrassment” at the decision to award Anthony Gordon’s goal at St James’ Park last month, calling it “a disgrace”.

He was later charged with a breach of FA Rule E3.1, with his comments alleged to constitute misconduct towards an official, and gave evidence at an FA hearing last week.

“An independent regulatory commission has found the charge against Mikel Arteta for an alleged breach of FA Rule E3.1 to be not proven,” an FA statement read. “The manager was charged following various comments in media interviews after Arsenal’s Premier League game against Newcastle United on Saturday 4 November.

“It was alleged that his comments constituted misconduct in that they were insulting towards match officials and/or detrimental to the game and/or brought the game into disrepute.”

Arteta already served a touchline ban in the Premier League game against Aston Villa on Saturday after being shown his third yellow card of the season for “excessive celebrations” following Declan Rice’s 97th-minute winner against Luton Town last Tuesday.

The Spaniard defended his actions, saying it was a “really emotional moment”.

Gordon’s goal last month was checked by VAR Andy Madley at three stages: whether the ball had stayed in play, whether there was a foul by a Newcastle player and whether there was an offside.

After the match, Arteta did not clarify which part he took issue with, but said: “We have to talk about the result because you have to talk about how the hell this goal stands up and it’s incredible.

“I feel embarrassed but I have to be the one now coming here to try to defend the club and please ask for help, because it’s an absolute disgrace that this goal is allowed it’s an absolute disgrace.

“Because it’s not a goal for many reasons it’s not a goal, for more than one reason at least, it’s not a goal and it’s too much at stake here. We put so much effort, it’s so difficult to compete at this level, and it’s an absolute disgrace.

“Again, I feel embarrassed having more than 20 years in this country, and this is nowhere near the level to describe this as the best league in the world. I am sorry.

“That makes it even worse (that there were three checks). It makes it even worse. You just need to see one image, if you need, and you have any doubt you look at the second one, and if this is a goal, okay, that’s fine.”

Arteta’s comments were supported by Arsenal, with the release of a club statement that “wholeheartedly” supported him and criticised the “unacceptable” officiating errors.

Before Arsenal’s 2-0 victory over Sevilla in the Champions League, Arteta defended his comments, saying: “It is my duty to stand in front of the cameras and give a very clear and honest assessment of what happens in the game. It is my duty to stand in front of the cameras and give a very clear and honest assessment of what happens in the game.

“This is what I did. Reflect very openly how I felt the team played and how the game was conditioned by the decisions that were made.

“My duty is to defend my players, club and people in the best possible way. This is what I’m going to do time after time and I do it, not the way I feel, (but) with the evidence and being as clear as possible. I always do it. When we play brilliantly, when we have lost, it’s my responsibility to do it. It’s the way I am and I have to defend my club.”
 
TQ2Spurs said:
Slimey little shit needs to be reminded he is no longer a baby who can spit out his dummy at every decision and act with a bit of decorum to set an example to his players.
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This decision makes prosecuting bad behaviour in future after a decision has gone against you, almost impossible. The FA are morons, what a mess the games governance has got itself into.
 
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