Watford v Aston Villa Official Match Thread - Sat 14th - 3pm | Page 41 | Vital Football

Watford v Aston Villa Official Match Thread - Sat 14th - 3pm

david-avfc said:
I actually thought we looked far better with Ramsey in the team, if anything just tactically having 3 central midfielders made a big difference.

I just can't see how we are going to be successful with just two central midfielders in the side. That includes if we play a 4-2-3-1 formation as we did yesterday with Buendia as an advanced attacking midfielder and certainly if we try to pull off a 442 formation with Ings and Watkins up top. Our midfield is just nowhere near strong enough to be honest. If Buendia is going to be played as a "number 10" then he's going to have to be incredibly tactically disciplined and hard working.

Back to Ramsey, I actually thought he had a decent game. He had some good touches, and nearly scored too. Agree he's probably not the quality we want and preferably wouldn't be first choice, but I don't think he deserves to be slated over yesterday - not his fault we started like a bag of spanners and went down 2-0 before he even came on
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Yes, agree with Ramsey, looked lively, got stuck in, thought there was promise for the future there.
 
Villan57 said:
86% pass completion for Marvelous 34 passes but he can't pass and gives the ball away all the time
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He was shite mate no matter what stats suggest otherwise. Anyone who watched it could see how much of a liability on the ball he was. The thing is he's only expected to keep it simple in possession (which in itself is a weakness) but then at times struggles to do that.

He'll have better games for sure, but yesterday his weaknesses really were clear to see.
 
i really don't get the Ashley Young transfer and why he has gone straight into the team . Goes against everything we have been trying to do . He was dire yesterday , miles off the pace and has no place in our team
 
Platypus said:
I thought Bert and Bailey both made stronger cases to be starting than Danny did. Buendia has to play his way in as his position is going to be pivotal, so I'd start with Ollie with a view to bringing Ings on second half.
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I'd hope Ings has been signed with a plan in mind rather than us sticking rigidly to the 4-3-3.

I agree that if we have to stick with that formation then Bailey and Traore have to come in at a minimum but I'm frankly hoping for us to evolve a style of play that can accommodate both Ings and Watkins and get the best out of them.
 
david-avfc said:
He was shite mate no matter what stats suggest otherwise. Anyone who watched it could see how much of a liability on the ball he was. The thing is he's only expected to keep it simple in possession (which in itself is a weakness) but then at times struggles to do that.

He'll have better games for sure, but yesterday his weaknesses really were clear to see.
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McGinn and Mings are far worse but Marv cops it every time we lose but the last 10 games people have clamoured for him to play. Next, it will be Luiz's turn to be blamed for everything . It's a cycle or seems to be whilst more established players get away with murder. They were all pretty crap yesterday but Marv gets singled out but his stats and I hate stats prove otherwise.
 
Pangloss said:
He was vastly superior to Targett when he moved to left back. I think he'll prove to be a decent signing.
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Yeah. Massively uninspiring as a winger but really showed his experience at LB. Imagine having an out of form full back who doesn't automatically start regardless.
 
randy.stand said:
Have to say I wasn't entirely surprised by yesterday. We have had a terrible pre-season in reality. Games cancelled, not one opposition who would really test us. Coaches leaving. Losing our talisman when I'm not sure the club expected it. I think Bailey & Buendia were to be in addition to Grealish and it threw a major spanner in the works. Ings has come in and whilst a good player and will score goals for us, I feel it makes us slightly unbalanced and that's down to the coaches how he fits in.

You can't legislate for poor performances from key players, i.e Targett, Cash etc. New players sometimes need time to bed in, as proven with Buendia's poor performance yesterday but again goes back to the little pre-season he has had. My main concern is the midfield- as it has been for such a long time. It should have been the priority this summer, and it hasn't been. McGinn fine and will still prove to be an asset but after that we are badly struggling. Luiz (when he is around) has flashes of brilliance. Nakamba performs well against the bigger sides, mainly due to the fact we don't hold much possession. Stick Nakamba in a game where we dominate the ball and he is useless- he cannot pass and he is so small he cannot be the enforcer we need. The midfield caused so many of the issues yesterday. In the first half, Targett was being badly exposed and struggling- yes he was making individual errors and you could say Young didn't do much to help him but having the midfield 2 we have left so many gaps in behind, which the two full backs struggled with. It's no coincidence that both Cash and Targett (some of our most consistent performers last year) struggled. The midfield was the same against that Italian Sultana side last week- only improved once Ramsey and Hourihane came on. It concerns me that Smith is saying 'we are done' in the market. If the midfield stays that way, we are going to have a poor season.

The other thing for me, stop playing players out of position. El-Ghazi has never and will never be a right winger- we have tried it so many times and it just doesn't work. Bailey was a bright spark, we badly missed Watkins. Buendia had a torrid time but he will get better.

It's all a bit unknown at the moment, feels we are in a bit of a mess especially with the pre-season and coaching disruption we have had. Was a brilliant day nonetheless, so good to see everyone again.
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I know you mean me specifically.
 
Smith needs to stop trying to be clever by playing players out of position thinking it will fool the opposition. Stick to the reason why we bought them in the first place. I felt sorry for Matty Targett who was obviously not fit and was hung out to dry by Smith. What possessed him to put him in the team from the start when Young was there and match fit. It's stupidity like this that will lose him his dream job. I thought Cash wasn't much better either and will need to up his game.

I agree totally with what Randy Stand says in that we needed to strengthen the midfield but seem to have lost the plot there. We have the funds to do it and somebody needs to pull their finger out this week and concentrate on getting a midfield enforcer in. If we don't, we will struggle, it's as simple as that.

On the subject of buy out fees. Now that FFP is as good as out of the window, we need to start putting in figures that make our stars out of reach of the FFP cheats, otherwise it's a case of who will be next to fall prey to the money rich clubs. It was always obvious to me that anything less than £150m would be enough to prize greasy away.
 
Pangloss said:
I'd hope Ings has been signed with a plan in mind rather than us sticking rigidly to the 4-3-3.

I agree that if we have to stick with that formation then Bailey and Traore have to come in at a minimum but I'm frankly hoping for us to evolve a style of play that can accommodate both Ings and Watkins and get the best out of them.
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I think Ings was somewhat of an impulse/panic buy rather than a planned for target tbh.
We had the chance and took him but think there'll be some fannying around trying to fit him and Watkins in - hopefully we work something out sooner rather than later
 
Tom Cat said:
Trying to evaluate the game after taking a bit of a rest!

- Targett especially, but our defence looked very porous today. We weren't clicking at all. I don't see a reason why they would have suddenly got crap, so not too worried - might just need a couple games to get up to speed.
- Surprised by Buendia. Thought Emi2 was going to hit the ground running, but he was one of our poorest players. Dont think the tactics helped at all, he looked completely lost in the centre of the pitch. Got outmuscled a lot too, he could have been trying to do too much by himself. Tough start for him, but I have no fear.
- Surprised by Bailey. Thought he was going to take a couple months to get up to speed and I feared a flop, but easily our best player today. Only took a couple minutes to get involved with a goal and looked dangerous every time he had the ball. I just wanted all of our play to go through him. Kind of reminded me of someone...... but faster.
- I think we missed Watkins a lot. Boy's got a lot to his game and is a dominant force on the pitch. Thought Ings would be a great replacement, but he was really anonymous.
- On Ings, we now have someone who can take a penalty and there is less of an excuse for playing El Ghazi. Just need to learn to play to his strengths.
- We were shite in the first half, but we have options now. Last year we had no such luck. El Ghazi and Buendia were pants today, but we were then able to get Bailey and Traore on - who changed the game completely. They can't all have a bad day, so expect players to get pulled earlier for underperforming (I hope).
- Our midfield needs something. Marvelous was good for me today, other than that mental pass. Meatball scored a great goal, but was really sluggish and sloppy the rest of the time. I think we are all in agreement that a solid, consistent player is needed here to take one of those two positions. I'd kill for a prime Milner in the team.
- we miss he who shall not be named and it's going to take time. Those wanting to axe Smith, I urge you to give it time. There's a fair chance we'll be in the danger zone in 6 or 7 games time, but I'm really confident that we have some very solid players and when on the same wavelength will be a real force. A strong finish after a slow start is my prediction. I hope that the owners will be able to tell the difference between a team learning to overcome the grief of a loss and a poor manager. Deano might not cut it in the end, jury is out for me, but there's a good chance he won't be to blame for some bad performances in the next few games is all I'm saying.
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Nicked :tophat:
 
BringbakMON said:
I think Ings was somewhat of an impulse/panic buy rather than a planned for target tbh.
We had the chance and took him but think there'll be some fannying around trying to fit him and Watkins in - hopefully we work something out sooner rather than later
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Yep it's Smith's problem to solve and if he can't then perhaps we will find someone who can. Ings hasn't exactly come here on the cheap.
 
Silhillvilla said:
I think he'll be gone before October. there was so much wrong with yesterday against a poor opposition. Watford will not have an easier game all season.
Our midfield is a major problem. Buying midgets like Buendia and Young has further weakened the midfield. I think we are in serious trouble.
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They might have an easier game....they might get Small Heath in the cup! :ROFLMAO:
 
david-avfc said:
He was shite mate no matter what stats suggest otherwise. Anyone who watched it could see how much of a liability on the ball he was. The thing is he's only expected to keep it simple in possession (which in itself is a weakness) but then at times struggles to do that.

He'll have better games for sure, but yesterday his weaknesses really were clear to see.
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Totally agree. I could play and get an 86% pass rate by passing sideways and making short passes that make no difference to the game. For me...Marv, El Ghazi, Trez, and a few others are not up to standard. Would they get anywhere near a top 5 sides first 11? No....they wouldn't even be in their squads. We aren't going to win anything by persisting with championship standard players. Admittedly we're building and that takes time and I like the look of Bailey and Buendia will be okay..but lets trim the dead wood asap.
 
Villan57 said:
He's 64 mate a job for as long as Dean is the manager he's from Great barr, you don't just walk out 2 days before the season. I don't buy that bollocks nobody suddenly walks out of a good job unless they have been pushed or it's made untenable.
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Purslow slowly picking apart the DS stitching IMO.
 
As well as my combine harvester related traffic problems someone in the pub before the game thought I was Shaun Teale .

I look nothing like Shaun Teale either now or in his villa heyday.

What with the shit performance, spawny nature of the goals and the above, it was on reflection a bit of a bizarre day to be consigned quickly to the dustbin .
 
We can talk about each player and say they are OK....Luiz OK, SJM OK, Ramsey OK, even Marv OK - but our midfield as a unit whatever combo we use is atrocious.
MIA.

I like SJM and Luiz but they don't get enough goals, make enough goals or defend well enough. Do we really have all these midfielders and none of them work?
What a mess.

Ings signed a contract so tough, I think it has to be either / or with him and Ollie.
Bailey/Bert as wingers/forwards. And we need to find a 3 man midfield that works. Buendia, probably buying a new one and then maybe Sanson?
 
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