Was religion created to control?

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This is a genuine question i do wonder as i have got older, is religion a natural process of understanding thing's around our enviroment and world as we grew more curious and needed to know why and how thing's work the way they do, or was religion created by a real devine power of consciousness that we don't understand yet nor know about, what do you think and explain why you came to this conclusion.

So was religion created by man wanting to control or maybe help with knowledge and good intentional? Or was is ourselves seeking answers on life or is there real spirits and higher concious being and could there be a way we couldn't detect a concious being at all with today's technology, how and why?
 
Oh Clive, what have you done now? Where is that naughty step?

LOL.

Anyone that claims to know all the answers about this is lying to you. We can never know.

My opinion, and it is just that, an opinion, is that religion was not created for control. I believe that religion came about as a way for humans to explain what they could not at that time. However, as more and more religions were created, it became used more and more by rulers to control the masses - and it was very effective. There isn't a better incentive to obey the law than not going to hell. Religion clearly thrived under those circumstances.

My view is that the simplest solution is usually the correct one, and everything can be explained without a Divine power, so we don't need one. Why add in extra factors to the equation?

Either way, you are in big trouble!!!!!!!!!! :13: :13: :13: :13: :13:
 
sirdennis - 17/11/2014 19:16

Here we go then...........
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Well, sirdennis (et al), I'm not going anywhere and will henceforth give this thread a very wide berth. :14:
 
BBJ - 17/11/2014 19:19

sirdennis - 17/11/2014 19:16

Here we go then...........
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Well, sirdennis (et al), I'm not going anywhere and will henceforth give this thread a very wide berth. :14:
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I understand your reticence, but maybe, just this once, we can have a sensible discussion about this? Without the calmer minds like yours then this is less likely.

It is an interesting subject, and one that can be discussed reasonably, as Revd Pete proved on a previous thread.
 
:17: We won't probably ever find out will we, just bugs me thinking the blokes that wrote these old texts did they really truly believe they was talking to god weather they was or not or was it ideals of ''hey if we write stories we can get folk to follow our leadership'' but would they do this planning it lasting for thousends of years as it has :69:

It is interesting reading folk believeing there is a group that run everything on this planet that have the same genes as the Egyptian leader's etc and they carried on the control etc into today, i just can not believe tbh though something like that much control created by religion could be known to last so long into the future, belief is a powerful thing that is for sure.
 
I think if we were put on here by someone then that someone would be aliens or another race on another planet.

I certainly dont think theres a magical land where we all go when we die. Or i dont think 1 omnipresent has created all this himself. That would be rather difficult.

Mind you if there are aliens it does pose the question of who made them and so on.... and if we were a chemical explosion then who made the micro organism for us to grow from.

Etc etc. Very mind bendy
 
In answer to your question Clive, my belief is that, No - religion was not created to control.

I tell you why;

Lets wind back the clock to the days where we danced under the moon and stars. Religious rituals, dance, singing, chanting, yet no money or control - just a group of friends doing something that made them feel happier.

Lets wind forward - and we can see how its been exploited. But then this goes for everything mate(not just religion).
 
Was it created to control?

No.

Early religions were created from superstition and a lack of understanding of the natural world around them.

Did it become a tool to control? Yes, of course, some through the dictates of the religion and some through the fear of consequences of not following those who developed whatever religious rules they came up with.

Social control was needed, still is, just many societies have moved on from 'just' religious dictates and now use laws and/or social norms.

Some use religion for good now, some bastardise it and are hypocrites to the intention of the writings.

I thank you for your attention, end of The Fear Teachings (copies available from no good stockists!!!)

 
Heath dude the only thing that niggles my mind and brain is a time in my childhood, growing up in a house that was as some would put it haunted, there was defo something there me mom dad and me mates who used to sleepover saw the very same or similar things, now science says it is all in the mid but there is no way some of the things that happand and was scary, the aperitions of a bloke was real this is what makes me think there is something more than what Science explains tbh, not saying god type stuff but defo something.
 
Ofcourse they didn't know they were creating ''religion'' (note the '' '' comma's) Simply facts is The O.T is the history of The Jews, that was recorded in some way that was carried forward.

Jesus then came to up skittle things, who was a Jew. Christianity came out of his name. Jesus Christ. I think that is simple enough to follow.

Yes there were other faiths/creeds/etc around at the time. The simple line is that they (as millions still do) wanted to deal with the inner life, as they understood it back then.

Unfortunately people being people, used the word to control and manipulate over the millions of years. The Pharisees were the first form of religious zealots in The Bible, as they were legalisms. They couldn't deal with Jesus who came to fulfil the law, which would take away all the rigidity, and external rules and deal with the inner life.

Alot of you Clive don't seem to get by talking to God, what they mean. They spent quiet time in prayer (which is merely talking out loud/or not in quiet time) and meditation which is becoming silent within and still, to refocus and so on.

Alot of you don't get it, as you don't understand it is not about what you think it is. It is about the inner life. Not external.

The Bible is a beautiful book, of stories, poetry, psalms and great works. Unfortunately some have used that to their own ends and not what it was meant to be used for, not that they would have realised that their word would still be carrying on millions of years later. How could they have?. It's not feasible.

The O.Y & N.T times, they thought they were in The End Times, so no way they could know it
 
ClivetheVillan - 17/11/2014 20:57

Heath dude the only thing that niggles my mind and brain is a time in my childhood, growing up in a house that was as some would put it haunted, there was defo something there me mom dad and me mates who used to sleepover saw the very same or similar things, now science says it is all in the mid but there is no way some of the things that happand and was scary, the aperitions of a bloke was real this is what makes me think there is something more than what Science explains tbh, not saying god type stuff but defo something.
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This might help, Clive. The human brain is capable of amazing things, including creating a shared fantasy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/11214511/Ghosts-created-by-scientists-in-disturbing-lab-experiment.html

Artificial ‘spectres’ were conjured up by an experiment which proved so disconcerting for participants that two begged for it to stop.

They saw up to four phantoms positioned around them and believed that ghosts were touching their backs with invisible fingers.
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 - 17/11/2014 18:57

Oh Clive, what have you done now? Where is that naughty step?

LOL.

Anyone that claims to know all the answers about this is lying to you. We can never know.

My opinion, and it is just that, an opinion, is that religion was not created for control. I believe that religion came about as a way for humans to explain what they could not at that time. However, as more and more religions were created, it became used more and more by rulers to control the masses - and it was very effective. There isn't a better incentive to obey the law than not going to hell. Religion clearly thrived under those circumstances.

My view is that the simplest solution is usually the correct one, and everything can be explained without a Divine power, so we don't need one. Why add in extra factors to the equation?

Either way, you are in big trouble!!!!!!!!!! :13: :13: :13: :13: :13:
Click to expand...

I am kinda of with you, on this, however, the difference is I believe in the divine power, how I understand
 
A few kefkat?

There were literally hundreds, probably thousands, of cults, religions and messiahs around the world.

People understand where Christ joined the party btw.

Your post re some of us dont get it isnt necessary. Your reading and whst you get out of it is very different to several religious people i know and have talked to, at length. We cant be expected to be able to interpret everyones individial readings of these fables, juat as we cant all find agreement on many ancient writings, or even the meanings of far more recent (non religious) writings, eg Shakespeare.

Im talking ancient religion in my post, the more 'modern' religions all came from the older superstitions and religions, a lack of understanding of natural phenomena and did become very strong social control.

Was it needed then? Probably, to keep the masses in their place. Sadly it then developed into the biggest oxymoron known to man, Holy Wars...
 
Of course, Science comes to the rescue again.

http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/sci_tech/3102-scientists-prove-that-all-religious-books-are-man-made-nonsense.html

Scientists Prove That All Religious Books Are Man-Made Nonsense

The scientists, headed by Doctor Julius Sanreso, welcomed the research findings and said that it would be in the interests of those who believe in such nonsense as organised religion or creationism to accept the fact that religious books were written by men as a control system.

“We must ensure that the people who have been fooled for so long by fictitious belief systems utilised to control humans do not get too angry when they realise that what they believe in is nonsense written by humans utilising human created language. This could be dangerous for society, so we must either let them carry on believing their fiction or try to somehow support them when they realise the truth,” Dr Sanreso said.







:137:
 
The Fear - 17/11/2014 21:08

A few kefkat?

There were literally hundreds, probably thousands, of cults, religions and messiahs around the world.

People understand where Christ joined the party btw.

Your post re some of us dont get it isnt necessary. Your reading and whst you get out of it is very different to several religious people i know and have talked to, at length. We cant be expected to be able to interpret everyones individial readings of these fables, juat as we cant all find agreement on many ancient writings, or even the meanings of far more recent (non religious) writings, eg Shakespeare.

Im talking ancient religion in my post, the more 'modern' religions all came from the older superstitions and religions, a lack of understanding of natural phenomena and did become very strong social control.

Was it needed then? Probably, to keep the masses in their place. Sadly it then developed into the biggest oxymoron known to man, Holy Wars...
Click to expand...

Don't think I said few. Yes there was thousands. Not everyone gets where Jesus joined the party, JF. You do. Many others do on here. Not everyone. Others reading besides us usual VV who post, hence, just incase.

Agrees that it is a personal thing to each person when you read The Bible, or anything else for that matter, as you say
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 - 17/11/2014 21:02

ClivetheVillan - 17/11/2014 20:57

Heath dude the only thing that niggles my mind and brain is a time in my childhood, growing up in a house that was as some would put it haunted, there was defo something there me mom dad and me mates who used to sleepover saw the very same or similar things, now science says it is all in the mid but there is no way some of the things that happand and was scary, the aperitions of a bloke was real this is what makes me think there is something more than what Science explains tbh, not saying god type stuff but defo something.
Click to expand...

This might help, Clive. The human brain is capable of amazing things, including creating a shared fantasy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/11214511/Ghosts-created-by-scientists-in-disturbing-lab-experiment.html

Artificial ‘spectres’ were conjured up by an experiment which proved so disconcerting for participants that two begged for it to stop.

They saw up to four phantoms positioned around them and believed that ghosts were touching their backs with invisible fingers.
Click to expand...

This is amazing, shows our brains can deceive us and make us think thing's are there that are not, i do get this as we am all connected electrically and maybe that's how signals get passed to each other influencing things we as groups see and feel,,,,interesting this dude we am on the verge of understanding previously thought magical or fantasy stuff then, i enjoyed reading this cheers :35:
 
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