vs Elche CF original official match thread

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

Yep, basically everything is Murillo fault.

To be honest, I’m not sure what our South American scouts were thinking when they signed this clogger.

Were you aware that Worrall gashed head was his fault also?
Granted, Murillo was in the treatment room whe. Joe clashed heads…but, well, the Brazilian's fault, obviously!

Lol

You keep making sarcastic comments to try and make it go away

Nobody was laughing last season when we were worst team in EPL for set pieces

Everyone complained week in week out

If we dont change how we set up to defend them nothing will change this season

Hopefully the set piece coach reads vital, figures out Murillo is a liability in the air (like I already did last season)

And moves him to guarding back post or similar like a full back might do instead

(It should be easier than that tbh. Surely they just analyse that goal and change it? They dont actually need Vital to see he doesnt win contested headers) I'm joking about them needing Vital just in case anyone takes that seriously!

If they cant figure it out by themselves by now they havent got a clue being honest. Nikola or Boly can't do anything about it when they are marking someone else

Maybe put him on edge of box picking up pieces assuming he won't move him to striker for defending corners (which I also said tongue in cheek above by the way)

Hopefully they dont bury head in the sand like black gold and co - pretending it's not a problem

They've taken MGW off corners and deeper free kicks so at least someone's spotted that weakness in our set pieces at last !

Just need to sort someone to take free kicks closer in now instead of MGW. Maybe that should be Murillo or CHO. It shouldn't be MGW for sure

We need a big guy or two at the front post for defending corners (definitely not Murillo there) just simply putting their heads on any ball coming in that area and clearing any danger before it develops further

(We are a big team and with the big lads starting we've got plenty who can do that job better than Murillo for sure)

We can't keep persevering with Murillo to win headers for us in important positions

Just because he's called a centre back doesn't mean he can head the ball and needs to be put in the dangerous areas where we NEED to win headers

He doesn't win contested headers because he's not tall in centre back terms and hes not built to jump

It's his weakness so we need to plan accordingly for set pieces rather than think something will change

He's 22 now he's not a kid still growing or learning how to head a ball. It's just not his strength

As I warned end of last season

So far in the friendlies Murillo's impact on results is that he's cost us 2 goals as a defender and created 0 goals going forward

Same as I've been banging on about all pre season. What he does or doesn't do at the back has WAY more of an impact on results than what he does going forward. Boly and Nikola will win their defensive duels and aerial battles

He gave midfield and strikers good support last night AS USUAL but most important job for a centre back is stopping opposition scoring and once again he personally failed that job last night

And that put us on back foot from start of the game

It's a friendly but we need to address so pray to God I'm not pointing it out in games that matter

I obviously prefer Murillo in a back 3 (but we still need to be careful what we require him to do there). He still cost us a goal last night even with 2 huge centre backs alongside him in a back three. And that's the way we seem to be going now. It also appears from his latest statement a big club isn't buying him for silly money after all so hes here to stay. As a defender he's not as good as he and Forest fans think he is.

He can't win contested headers so we need to set up accordingly so it doesn't cost us goals.

And give him and the team the platform to do the great stuff he can do from within a back 3 without costing us at the back.

So that we gain more than we lose from him in that position and really take advantage of his undoubted quality on the ball.

Last night the other 2 centre backs were clearly staying back so he could support the attack which worked well. We've got that but right. So now let's sort out putting the right players in the right places for defending set pieces at least.

Sermon over

 

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

Obvious lesson from this is without the 2 strikers we are a bit toothless. We must bring in a good third striker to challenge those 2 not just as a stand in when they are injured

We weren't playing lone target man striker like normal. It was 2 wider roles with MGW and Bowler playing a bit deeper but central.

With CHO and Elanga but then also with Hwang and Dennis (2 strikers playing wider together with Bowler supporting through the middle like MGW in first half)

That's something I've not seen us try before

It worked quite well when we didn't have the ball in terms of allowing a good press on the opposition

It's just a different approach I guess which allowed 3 defenders as well

But doesn't leave room for an out and out striker

Didn't give us end result last night but the pressing bit worked as we dominated the game after a slow start and their goal

See you guys on here for the next friendly !

I need to avoid the oncoming flak for daring to point out a Murillo mistake again!

 

[Marco Polo]

Two words

ITS A FRIENDLY!

who cares man. Cooper used to lose them on purpose and that guys was a genius

 

[Basha73]

Two words

ITS A FRIENDLY!

who cares man. Cooper used to lose them on purpose and that guys was a genius

Two?

 

[Lienking]

We need to start off with two centre backs, then ask Neil Sedaka if he can find a way to add Murillo ...........

 

[Polly 433]

Wolf is correct. Murillo is suspect in the air. His positioning isn’t first class which it needs to be if you are vertically challenged. Thiago was an excellent CB but wasn’t very tall. Both have many other strengths. We all identified this last year. Thus the clamour for some big defenders to go alongside and not just rely on Boly. Nuno has done this yet not deployed them together much. Maybe to pressurise the recruitment team to buy another.

This may also be the reason why no strikers. Make problem obvious. Hwang nor Dennis the answer. We do need a striker quite badly. Awoniyi saga smacks a bit like the Richards saga. Whether fit or not he will miss some games. Can Wood repeat last season? He is only getting older.

Both ends of field need fixing. One end is partially fixed, just needs cover, the other is glaring. Could be massive depending on situation.

 

[mao tse tung]

Two?

He was confusing his brain cell count with his word count

 

[forestfire_59]

We weren't playing lone target man striker like normal. It was 2 wider roles with MGW and Bowler playing a bit deeper but central.

With CHO and Elanga but then also with Hwang and Dennis (2 strikers playing wider together with Bowler supporting through the middle like MGW in first half)

That's something I've not seen us try before

It worked quite well when we didn't have the ball in terms of allowing a good press on the opposition

It's just a different approach I guess which allowed 3 defenders as well

But doesn't leave room for an out and out striker

Didn't give us end result last night but the pressing bit worked as we dominated the game after a slow start and their goal

See you guys on here for the next friendly !

I need to avoid the oncoming flak for daring to point out a Murillo mistake again!

It’s not that you “point out a Murillo mistake again!”, it is that you are obsessed on so many levels with so many people. You are so far up your own ass, that you feel you are more qualified to assess playing systems than a bunch of qualified coaching staff being paid sums that you or I could only dream of.

Teams like Chelsea are interested in paying £50 million +, but you are more qualified than these recruitment specialists who earn £1,000s per week.

You know better than Nuno who has managed multiple EPL teams, what the best playing system is. You are so convinced in your own infallibility that you assert that if Nuno doesn’t implement a 3+2 defence then we are going down.

Seriously? Have a word with yourself. I ignore comments by cornflake, Apolyon etc because I know they are just winding people up for whatever reason.

You are far more dangerous as you actually believe the stuff that you are spouting.

You are in the wrong job, my friend you are clearly qualified for the England job. You are obsessed and deluded, have a beer and chill the f*ck out.

 

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

It’s not that you “point out a Murillo mistake again!”, it is that you are obsessed on so many levels with so many people. You are so far up your own ass, that you feel you are more qualified to assess playing systems than a bunch of qualified coaching staff being paid sums that you or I could only dream of.

Teams like Chelsea are interested in paying £50 million +, but you are more qualified than these recruitment specialists who earn £1,000s per week.

You know better than Nuno who has managed multiple EPL teams, what the best playing system is. You are so convinced in your own infallibility that you assert that if Nuno doesn’t implement a 3+2 defence then we are going down.

Seriously? Have a word with yourself. I ignore comments by cornflake, Apolyon etc because I know they are just winding people up for whatever reason.

You are far more dangerous as you actually believe the stuff that you are spouting.

You are in the wrong job, my friend you are clearly qualified for the England job. You are obsessed and deluded, have a beer and chill the f*ck out.

Lol

And heres me just thinking I was helping by saying formation for those who couldn't watch the stream

There weren't many in the match thread so I assumed not many watched it

Im not more qualified just saying what formation was last night compared to previous games

Nothing more than that

I think you are obsessed with finding fault with me tbh?

It's you that needs to chill the fook out above

 

[LynxRed]

Lol

And heres me just thinking I was helping by saying formation for those who couldn't watch the stream

There weren't many in the match thread so I assumed not many watched it

Im not more qualified just saying what it was last night compared to previous games

Nothing more than that

I think you are obsessed with finding fault with me tbh?

It's you that needs to chill the fook out above

That was one helluva rant from FF59, but to be fair you do put yourself across as a has been/never was who's convinced he knows better than the scouting networks and coaching setups of absolute tippity top tier clubs.

I'm still slightly undecided how much you believe of your own waffle, and how much you just enjoy trying to go against the grain with everything.

 

[TMFwanstead]

Lol

And heres me just thinking I was helping by saying formation for those who couldn't watch the stream

There weren't many in the match thread so I assumed not many watched it

Im not more qualified just saying what it was last night compared to previous games

Nothing more than that

I think you are obsessed with finding fault with me tbh?

It's you that needs to chill the fook out above

My opinion of Murillo is that he is a great prospect but probably needs a couple more years developing with us before he gets his big move. One for certain and he can eliminate the mistakes. As for how we are doing in pre season then a lot better than the last 2 and I’m confident we will do a lot better this season on the proviso we get the winger cover and another striker. We are gradually removing the dead wood and seem to be working to plans. I think the next game we need to up the minutes the first team players play to 60-65 mins.

 

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

You do come across as a bit of a has been/never was who's convinced he knows better than the scouting networks and coaching setups of absolute tippity top tier clubs.

I'm still slightly undecided how much you believe of your own waffle, and how much you just enjoy trying to go against the grain with everything.

I believe what I am saying for sure

And it's not wind up

I don't think or claim i know any more than many fans who've watched us for a long time

Albeit I get frustrated with some who talk like kids about some of the things they either see or expect

Plenty more on here know as much as me about football at the very least. I won't name them but plenty I respect on here. I wouldn't be joining in here otherwise.

In my defence to the top bit you've said. I personally played to a decent level and grew up with and spent my life with top tier scouting and coaching staff including spending lots of time with BC fwiw. Albeit I was young then of course

So i at least learnt a bit from that experience and still mix with those guys and those that followed BC. The ones who are still alive that is. And still get the benefit of their knowledge experience and views about this. Ex players and managers and coaching staff. All ex Forest and other clubs

And I promise those are people you would respect and who would fit your top tier comment

Who I respect and learn from still myself

None of that is BS

 

[orbitalforest]

It’s not that you “point out a Murillo mistake again!”, it is that you are obsessed on so many levels with so many people. You are so far up your own ass, that you feel you are more qualified to assess playing systems than a bunch of qualified coaching staff being paid sums that you or I could only dream of.

Teams like Chelsea are interested in paying £50 million +, but you are more qualified than these recruitment specialists who earn £1,000s per week.

You know better than Nuno who has managed multiple EPL teams, what the best playing system is. You are so convinced in your own infallibility that you assert that if Nuno doesn’t implement a 3+2 defence then we are going down.

Seriously? Have a word with yourself. I ignore comments by cornflake, Apolyon etc because I know they are just winding people up for whatever reason.

You are far more dangerous as you actually believe the stuff that you are spouting.

You are in the wrong job, my friend you are clearly qualified for the England job. You are obsessed and deluded, have a beer and chill the f*ck out.

Spot on.

 

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

My opinion of Murillo is that he is a great prospect but probably needs a couple more years developing with us before he gets his big move. One for certain and he can eliminate the mistakes. As for how we are doing in pre season then a lot better than the last 2 and I’m confident we will do a lot better this season on the proviso we get the winger cover and another striker. We are gradually removing the dead wood and seem to be working to plans. I think the next game we need to up the minutes the first team players play to 60-65 mins.

Agreed

It's kind if why I get excited when silly money gets mentioned for him tbh and would take it as silly money can allow clubs like us to replace with finished product or products - especially defenders who don't normally get those values or close

I suspect nobody is actually ready to pay the numbers that have been bandied about

So maybe we haven't won the lottery with him after all

So that being said. If he's staying I have to get fully behind him and just hope the club and manager use his obvious talents and minimise his obvious weaknesses the best way possible to maximise our points return

And if we get the system right he need only be a joy to watch rather than a potential liability at times

This all makes perfect sense to me.

Not sure why others don't see it the same tbh

Anyway enough said

Will be back on here for next friendly

I shouldn't actually have to justify what I say on here to anybody

Its all opinions.

 

[speel-gedling]

Murillo?
Personally I rate him very highly and think that we're very fortunate to have him.
There, I've said it.

 

[paz1967]

We weren't playing lone target man striker like normal. It was 2 wider roles with MGW and Bowler playing a bit deeper but central.

With CHO and Elanga but then also with Hwang and Dennis (2 strikers playing wider together with Bowler supporting through the middle like MGW in first half)

That's something I've not seen us try before

It worked quite well when we didn't have the ball in terms of allowing a good press on the opposition

It's just a different approach I guess which allowed 3 defenders as well

But doesn't leave room for an out and out striker

Didn't give us end result last night but the pressing bit worked as we dominated the game after a slow start and their goal

See you guys on here for the next friendly !

I need to avoid the oncoming flak for daring to point out a Murillo mistake again!

yeahh probably, as anyone can point out a mistake but when its overlooking other world class qualities it seems pretty churlish.

He's still an inexperienced kid overall with exceptional strength and technique, reads the game brilliantly and had only one year outside of brazil. 5 years of improvment to come.

not sure we let many set pieces in the last bunch of games after the set piece coach was binned and it was still more about the team as supposed to our shortest cb being responsible.

Looking for inevitable weaknesses in someone that age isnt insightful, these are just areas to improve and his value is still relative to every other 22 yo cb in the world

 

[paz1967]

Agreed

It's kind if why I get excited when silly money gets mentioned for him tbh and would take it as silly money can allow clubs like us to replace with finished product or products - especially defenders who don't normally get those values or close

I suspect nobody is actually ready to pay the numbers that have been bandied about

So maybe we haven't won the lottery with him after all

So that being said. If he's staying I have to get fully behind him and just hope the club and manager use his obvious talents and minimise his obvious weaknesses the best way possible to maximise our points return

And if we get the system right he need only be a joy to watch rather than a potential liability at times

This all makes perfect sense to me.

Not sure why others don't see it the same tbh

Anyway enough said

Will be back on here for next friendly

I shouldn't actually have to justify what I say on here to anybody

Its all opinions.

There should always be justification for an opinion., im ny opinion lol

 

[Redchops]

see wolf has everyone dancing to his tune, he's playing you all like puppets.

 

[weejockmcplop]

Every player will look worse than they are when you spend the whole match focusing every touch they make so you can point out every time it isnt 100% perfect

 

[paz1967]

Lol

You keep making sarcastic comments to try and make it go away

Nobody was laughing last season when we were worst team in EPL for set pieces

Everyone complained week in week out

If we dont change how we set up to defend them nothing will change this season

Hopefully the set piece coach reads vital, figures out Murillo is a liability in the air (like I already did last season)

And moves him to guarding back post or similar like a full back might do instead

(It should be easier than that tbh. Surely they just analyse that goal and change it? They dont actually need Vital to see he doesnt win contested headers) I'm joking about them needing Vital just in case anyone takes that seriously!

If they cant figure it out by themselves by now they havent got a clue being honest. Nikola or Boly can't do anything about it when they are marking someone else

Maybe put him on edge of box picking up pieces assuming he won't move him to striker for defending corners (which I also said tongue in cheek above by the way)

Hopefully they dont bury head in the sand like black gold and co - pretending it's not a problem

They've taken MGW off corners and deeper free kicks so at least someone's spotted that weakness in our set pieces at last !

Just need to sort someone to take free kicks closer in now instead of MGW. Maybe that should be Murillo or CHO. It shouldn't be MGW for sure

We need a big guy or two at the front post for defending corners (definitely not Murillo there) just simply putting their heads on any ball coming in that area and clearing any danger before it develops further

(We are a big team and with the big lads starting we've got plenty who can do that job better than Murillo for sure)

We can't keep persevering with Murillo to win headers for us in important positions

Just because he's called a centre back doesn't mean he can head the ball and needs to be put in the dangerous areas where we NEED to win headers

He doesn't win contested headers because he's not tall in centre back terms and hes not built to jump

It's his weakness so we need to plan accordingly for set pieces rather than think something will change

He's 22 now he's not a kid still growing or learning how to head a ball. It's just not his strength

As I warned end of last season

So far in the friendlies Murillo's impact on results is that he's cost us 2 goals as a defender and created 0 goals going forward

Same as I've been banging on about all pre season. What he does or doesn't do at the back has WAY more of an impact on results than what he does going forward. Boly and Nikola will win their defensive duels and aerial battles

He gave midfield and strikers good support last night AS USUAL but most important job for a centre back is stopping opposition scoring and once again he personally failed that job last night

And that put us on back foot from start of the game

It's a friendly but we need to address so pray to God I'm not pointing it out in games that matter

I obviously prefer Murillo in a back 3 (but we still need to be careful what we require him to do there). He still cost us a goal last night even with 2 huge centre backs alongside him in a back three. And that's the way we seem to be going now. It also appears from his latest statement a big club isn't buying him for silly money after all so hes here to stay. As a defender he's not as good as he and Forest fans think he is.

He can't win contested headers so we need to set up accordingly so it doesn't cost us goals.

And give him and the team the platform to do the great stuff he can do from within a back 3 without costing us at the back.

So that we gain more than we lose from him in that position and really take advantage of his undoubted quality on the ball.

Last night the other 2 centre backs were clearly staying back so he could support the attack which worked well. We've got that but right. So now let's sort out putting the right players in the right places for defending set pieces at least.

Sermon over

Pick any player, say MGW, bleeds pocession more than any other player, fancy flicks that dont come off half the time and only scoring half of his expected goals from a talisman player, more experienced than Murillo and English his natural language and trained in the prem. is he over rated and only worth about 10m in reality because of these weaknesses?