VAR forcing paying fans away? | Vital Football

VAR forcing paying fans away?

Spursex

Alert Team
#1
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/06/02/revealed-damning-survey-impact-var-football-fans/

Revealed: Damning survey into impact of VAR on football fans

In largest consultation of its kind on VAR, 44 per cent of all regular matchgoers said they would be attending less due to the technology


By Ben Rumsby 2 June 2021 • 7:00am


More than 33,000 fans were polled by the Football Supporters' Association Credit: PA

Almost half of match-going fans of Premier League clubs say they will attend fewer fixtures because of Video Assistant Referees, according to a damning survey into the impact of technology on the game.
In the largest consultation of its kind on VAR, 95 per cent of all supporters who had experienced it in-stadium and 94 per cent who had watched matches on television said it had made watching football less enjoyable.
Chief among the concerns of fans was the removal of the spontaneous joy of goal celebrations (95 per cent), and the impact of delays, with 86 per cent of TV viewers and 91 per cent of match-goers complaining decisions were generally not resolved in a reasonable amount of time.
More than a third of those respondents (39 per cent) who had season ticket holders and Premier League clubs before the coronavirus crisis said they were likely to attend fewer games in future as a result of the impact that VAR was having on the game, while 44 per cent of all regular matchgoers said they would be attending less due to VAR.
More than 33,000 fans were polled by the Football Supporters’ Association about their thoughts on various aspects of the VAR experience, both in-stadium and on TV.
The results of the survey will be provided to the Premier League, which is undergoing a similar consultation of players and managers to make improvements to the technology from next season.
FSA vice-chair Tom Greatrex said: “There is a clear feeling among fans that VAR has ruined the spontaneity of goal celebrations, and taken away a big part of our most enjoyable matchday moments.
“With four in 10 fans saying that VAR is likely to lead them to attend fewer matches in the future, we hope that the Premier League and referees’ body PGMOL will hear the fans’ voice and take urgent steps to improve a system that isn’t delivering clear and understandable decisions in stadiums.”
Only 26 per cent of those polled said they supported the use of VAR, compared to 97 per cent who said they were in favour of goalline technology.
The survey also found:
● Just over three quarters of fans (77 per cent) felt referees needed to take the time to more clearly explain VAR decisions to those in the stadium
● A similar proportion (78 per cent) agreed other sports were better suited to the use of video referees/umpires than football
● Two thirds (63 per cent) were not in favour of the partial use of VAR in competitions such as the FA Cup and EFL Cup
● Only 13 per cent of fans believe VAR had improved the overall accuracy of refereeing decisions FSA National Council member Steve Moulds said: “One of the main concerns raised by supporters is that VAR decisions are taking too long, and even then they aren’t always clearly communicated to those fans in the stadium when they are made.
“Despite being part of our game for several years, there is still great confusion over exactly how VAR operates, and that is having a detrimental impact on the enjoyment of match-going fans, as well as those watching on TV.
“We’d like to see much better communication and explanation from officials on VAR decisions, which will go some way to improving supporter confidence in the system.”
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
#3
Got to say, it really does kill the spontaneity and the reactions at stadiums now.

Would we be better without it now?
In 2022 the plan is to introduce automated technology - from Hawk-Eye I believe - for offside decisions. Apparently the technology will be be able to relay the decision to the assistant referee in 0.5 of a second.

Offside decisions account for a significant number of the total VAR decisions so hopefully we should see a vast reduction in the number of delays.
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
#5
The current offside rule mixed with VAR have made football so unenjoyable to watch even on the TV.
I think if we have instant decision-making and the offside is marginal to the naked eye, we'll accept the decision - trusting that the technology has made the right call.

To be honest, I find the offside rule to be absurd at times. The notion that an attacker gains a significant advantage by being a centimetre or two ahead of the defender is ludicrous. And so much time is wasted debating over these fine lines.
 

meee93

Vital Champions League
#6
I think if we have instant decision-making and the offside is marginal to the naked eye, we'll accept the decision - trusting that the technology has made the right call.

To be honest, I find the offside rule to be absurd at times. The notion that an attacker gains a significant advantage by being a centimetre or two ahead of the defender is ludicrous. And so much time is wasted debating over these fine lines.
It's how the game has been going for many years now. The need to be forensic about every decision. Was there ANY contact whatsoever? Penalty. Is a bit of hair past the defender? Offside. The rules and their interpretations need a complete makeover.
 

muttley

Alert Team
#7
I'm still for VAR but not in its current format.

Firstly, whether it is the on-pitch of video ref, they simply have to start using the rules of the game. Just forget the "clear and obvious" arse covering exercise between the refs and just be accountable to the rules. All VAR should be doing is checking the incident against the rulebook.

Secondly, they need to have a different team than the current set of refs at Stockley Park. A team that know the rules and know the game and can be objective. Any ex player knew that Rudiger tensed up his body and led with his shoulder to inflict pain on KDB. Such an easy decision to make. They always get these wrong.

Thirdly, offside. The rules state that level is onside but the science of VAR doesn't allow us to have that determination. So easily fixed. Just bring in a 50-60cm tolerance rule and allow that to be onside. After 50cm (a human body width) it will look offside on TV and in the stadium anyway.

VAR is such a great technology, put in the hands of a bunch of idiots. It's like giving a virtual reality headset to a blind man.
 

Matic

Alert Team
#8
The main problems with VAR continue to be the human aspect. We have rules that make no sense, we have officials who are simply not good enough on the pitch or in front of the screens and we have rules changing throughout the season because they encounter issues with them so one game a team lose because of a stupid rule but then the following week a team win because that rule is changed.

The technology is good and can be faster. The problems are ultimately human.
 

Pompey Yid

Vital 1st Team Regular
#9
The main problems with VAR continue to be the human aspect. We have rules that make no sense, we have officials who are simply not good enough on the pitch or in front of the screens and we have rules changing throughout the season because they encounter issues with them so one game a team lose because of a stupid rule but then the following week a team win because that rule is changed.

The technology is good and can be faster. The problems are ultimately human.
Agree there Matic, as much as I hate VAR, its here to stay, and as you and others have said the problems are ultimately human.

Again as others have said, those in control of VAR should be, for me ex-players who can read everything and of course know the rules.
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
#10
I'm still for VAR but not in its current format.

Firstly, whether it is the on-pitch of video ref, they simply have to start using the rules of the game. Just forget the "clear and obvious" arse covering exercise between the refs and just be accountable to the rules. All VAR should be doing is checking the incident against the rulebook.

Secondly, they need to have a different team than the current set of refs at Stockley Park. A team that know the rules and know the game and can be objective. Any ex player knew that Rudiger tensed up his body and led with his shoulder to inflict pain on KDB. Such an easy decision to make. They always get these wrong.

Thirdly, offside. The rules state that level is onside but the science of VAR doesn't allow us to have that determination. So easily fixed. Just bring in a 50-60cm tolerance rule and allow that to be onside. After 50cm (a human body width) it will look offside on TV and in the stadium anyway.

VAR is such a great technology, put in the hands of a bunch of idiots. It's like giving a virtual reality headset to a blind man.
On the offside rule, if players know there is a 50-60cm tolerance rule, won't the forwards just push up to the 50-60cm line instead? It seems to me that wherever you draw the offside line, forwards will push right up to that line and you will always have the same problem.
 
#11
On the offside rule, if players know there is a 50-60cm tolerance rule, won't the forwards just push up to the 50-60cm line instead? It seems to me that wherever you draw the offside line, forwards will push right up to that line and you will always have the same problem.
Perhaps, but the way I'm thinking about this is getting the VAR technology back to the way the naked eye works. If we were sitting together in the stadium, we would go "goal" or "offside". We'd be using our judgment based on our football instincts as we know level is onside. That's how the game has been for a long time.

That is what we need the technology doing and, to your point, players behaviour will align with it. I think it is actually getting the forwards back into their natural position before VAR came along. They're probably 50cm more withdrawn because of VAR.

Also, not sure what the tolerance number needs to be. I'm sure some smart people could find the optimal number where "level" is enabled. 50-60cm is my guess.
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
#12
Perhaps, but the way I'm thinking about this is getting the VAR technology back to the way the naked eye works. If we were sitting together in the stadium, we would go "goal" or "offside". We'd be using our judgment based on our football instincts as we know level is onside. That's how the game has been for a long time.

That is what we need the technology doing and, to your point, players behaviour will align with it. I think it is actually getting the forwards back into their natural position before VAR came along. They're probably 50cm more withdrawn because of VAR.

Also, not sure what the tolerance number needs to be. I'm sure some smart people could find the optimal number where "level" is enabled. 50-60cm is my guess.
I think this will be solved once we get the automated software in giving near-instantaneous decisions based on technology that can measure down to millimetres.
 
#13
I think this will be solved once we get the automated software in giving near-instantaneous decisions based on technology that can measure down to millimetres.
It will help, but still won't enable a "level" ruling that is in line with the naked eye. My guess is eventually the rules will be changed as level can no longer exist.

The irony is that leads to less goals, which is counter intuitive when you think about the bigger agenda.
 

Matic

Alert Team
#14
My honest opinion is VAR will only function properly when AI is powering it. AI will be able to process decisions in milliseconds, will be completely non-biased and won't be powered by human emotion.

The technology will be at the point where AI can referee a match completely sooner than we all think, but even then can only function as well as the rules that it follows.

In my heart, I don't think footballing authorities want VAR to work completely, or the rules to be black and white. They want that space to cause controversy. Controversy = column inches and screen time = money.
 

Walthamstow wanderer

Vital Football Hero
Staff member
#15
Got to say, it really does kill the spontaneity and the reactions at stadiums now.

Would we be better without it now?
Yep , it kills the spectacle, it ruins referees , it makes a mockery of the laws, it brings the game into disrepute.
It has nothing going for it .

If a referee and two linesmen ( !) can’t apply the laws of the game to a match , they shouldn’t be out there .
If they are not fit enough to keep up with play , they shouldn't be out there , .
If they are in need of VAR to help them control the game , they shouldn’t be out there .

if the laws of the game need micro managing by poor cameras , the laws need changing .
The whole use of VAR is a farce .
I’m in favour of getting rid of it ... can you tell?
 
#16
My honest opinion is VAR will only function properly when AI is powering it. AI will be able to process decisions in milliseconds, will be completely non-biased and won't be powered by human emotion.

The technology will be at the point where AI can referee a match completely sooner than we all think, but even then can only function as well as the rules that it follows.

In my heart, I don't think footballing authorities want VAR to work completely, or the rules to be black and white. They want that space to cause controversy. Controversy = column inches and screen time = money.

FIFA are currently looking for the right man....salary is around E200-250k with expenses...go for it!!


To support our Football Technology & Innovation Subdivision, FIFA is looking to recruit a self-motivated and flexible person as a Football Technology Manager, 100% (Permanent contract).


Your duties


* Supporting the development of state-of-art tracking technologies that can support the introduction of (semi-)automated offside calling technologies in football by engaging with football technology suppliers and working closely with FIFA’s Football Research & Standards department
* Leading the implementation of football technologies at selected FIFA tournaments by managing project teams and acting as main point of contact for all internal and external stakeholders
* Closely collaborating with other FIFA departments and divisions, in particular FIFA’s Refereeing Subdivision, Technical Development Division, Tournaments and Events Division and Commercial Division, by identifying their needs and communicating requirements
* Managing the procurement process for the required technologies and services by analysing the market, drafting tender documents, selecting suppliers and negotiating agreements
* Supporting the implementation and operation of football technologies on site by acting as venue manager during selected FIFA tournaments
* Supporting FIFA’s member associations and football leagues with the selection and implementation of football technologies by attending meetings and sharing knowledge
* Improving FIFA’s technology setup and services at FIFA tournaments by constantly analysing the market and testing and assessing new technologies and innovations


Our requirements


* Business and/or engineering educational background, or similar
* 3-5 years working with technology in sports and events
* Football knowledge (Laws of the Games and tactical understanding)
* In-depth knowledge of football technologies, in particular tracking technologies
* Experience with the implementation of football technologies (e.g. goal-line technology, video assistant referee (VAR) technology)
* Fluent English, knowledge of any other language an asset
* Excellent project management skills
* Solution oriented, flexible team-player
* Ability to work well under pressure
* Willingness to travel (20-30%)
* Strong identification with FIFA’s philosophy
 
#17
FIFA are currently looking for the right man....salary is around E200-250k with expenses...go for it!!


To support our Football Technology & Innovation Subdivision, FIFA is looking to recruit a self-motivated and flexible person as a Football Technology Manager, 100% (Permanent contract).


Your duties


* Supporting the development of state-of-art tracking technologies that can support the introduction of (semi-)automated offside calling technologies in football by engaging with football technology suppliers and working closely with FIFA’s Football Research & Standards department
* Leading the implementation of football technologies at selected FIFA tournaments by managing project teams and acting as main point of contact for all internal and external stakeholders
* Closely collaborating with other FIFA departments and divisions, in particular FIFA’s Refereeing Subdivision, Technical Development Division, Tournaments and Events Division and Commercial Division, by identifying their needs and communicating requirements
* Managing the procurement process for the required technologies and services by analysing the market, drafting tender documents, selecting suppliers and negotiating agreements
* Supporting the implementation and operation of football technologies on site by acting as venue manager during selected FIFA tournaments
* Supporting FIFA’s member associations and football leagues with the selection and implementation of football technologies by attending meetings and sharing knowledge
* Improving FIFA’s technology setup and services at FIFA tournaments by constantly analysing the market and testing and assessing new technologies and innovations


Our requirements


* Business and/or engineering educational background, or similar
* 3-5 years working with technology in sports and events
* Football knowledge (Laws of the Games and tactical understanding)
* In-depth knowledge of football technologies, in particular tracking technologies
* Experience with the implementation of football technologies (e.g. goal-line technology, video assistant referee (VAR) technology)
* Fluent English, knowledge of any other language an asset
* Excellent project management skills
* Solution oriented, flexible team-player
* Ability to work well under pressure
* Willingness to travel (20-30%)
* Strong identification with FIFA’s philosophy
I had it all until I read the last bullet !!!
 

Walthamstow wanderer

Vital Football Hero
Staff member
#19
FIFA are currently looking for the right man....salary is around E200-250k with expenses...go for it!!


To support our Football Technology & Innovation Subdivision, FIFA is looking to recruit a self-motivated and flexible person as a Football Technology Manager, 100% (Permanent contract).


Your duties


* Supporting the development of state-of-art tracking technologies that can support the introduction of (semi-)automated offside calling technologies in football by engaging with football technology suppliers and working closely with FIFA’s Football Research & Standards department
* Leading the implementation of football technologies at selected FIFA tournaments by managing project teams and acting as main point of contact for all internal and external stakeholders
* Closely collaborating with other FIFA departments and divisions, in particular FIFA’s Refereeing Subdivision, Technical Development Division, Tournaments and Events Division and Commercial Division, by identifying their needs and communicating requirements
* Managing the procurement process for the required technologies and services by analysing the market, drafting tender documents, selecting suppliers and negotiating agreements
* Supporting the implementation and operation of football technologies on site by acting as venue manager during selected FIFA tournaments
* Supporting FIFA’s member associations and football leagues with the selection and implementation of football technologies by attending meetings and sharing knowledge
* Improving FIFA’s technology setup and services at FIFA tournaments by constantly analysing the market and testing and assessing new technologies and innovations


Our requirements


* Business and/or engineering educational background, or similar
* 3-5 years working with technology in sports and events
* Football knowledge (Laws of the Games and tactical understanding)
* In-depth knowledge of football technologies, in particular tracking technologies
* Experience with the implementation of football technologies (e.g. goal-line technology, video assistant referee (VAR) technology)
* Fluent English, knowledge of any other language an asset
* Excellent project management skills
* Solution oriented, flexible team-player
* Ability to work well under pressure
* Willingness to travel (20-30%)
* Strong identification with FIFA’s philosophy
Have you ever read more total bollocks than this .
We are talking offside here . !
You have made this up to wind me up haven’t you ?
We are talking ...... :taz::eek::mad::bounce::help:...................:fish: