Ukraine Crisis | Page 7 | Vital Football

Ukraine Crisis

TQ2Spurs said:
It's good to read that F1 team Haas has sacked it's Russian driver and ended it's sponsorship deals with his country's organisations. The rest of the world (China excepted) really has come together to isolate Russia as a pariah state.
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Did the Russian driver come out in support of Russia ?
 
Nick Real Deal said:
Did the Russian driver come out in support of Russia ?
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I'm not aware of the full details but the team was partly sponsored by the drivers father who is the boss of a large chemical company in Russia. The team felt thay had to follow the lead of others in the sporting world and cut ties with Russia so I guess it would have been difficult to cut ties with his fathers company and not him as well.
 
A world strategist thinks Russia and China are working together to increase world domination. China is using the trade and financial route and Russia is seeking to de-stabilise.
He didn't mention Covid but whether it was deliberate or not, it has impacted the world financially.
He believes the USA currently has power but its being eroded.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
A world strategist thinks Russia and China are working together to increase world domination. China is using the trade and financial route and Russia is seeking to de-stabilise.
He didn't mention Covid but whether it was deliberate or not, it has impacted the world financially.
He believes the USA currently has power but its being eroded.
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It's no wonder to me that Putin has chosen this time to do what he has, the world is clearly in a fragile place economically right now but the one thing that has emboldened him IMO is the USA's decision to elect an old duffer as president who barely seems able to remember his own name when he wakes up in the morning. What is this fascination for electing pensioners as President? I don't mean any disrespect to the older generation, I'm a member myself, but just don't get having a guy who probably needs an afternoon nap as leader of one of the most powerful nations on earth. Didn't he make a speech the other day where he referred to the invasion of Croatia (or some other country in the region) and had to be prompted by an aide to correct it?
 
TQ many leaders are just the accepted face of govt and it is the machine and influencers and advisors behind that figurehead that are actually running the shooting match.
 
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It's interesting to know the real relationships between Putin and the oligarchs that are overseas. The natural assumption is to assume that they're all in bed with the Russian president. Could it be that a lot of them made their money through privatisation ventures under Yeltsin and are trying to keep Putin's hands off their ill gotten gains? After all, Putin is currently showing the world what evil things he would do with another few hundred billion.
 
The Ukraine president and the previous prime minister have both pleaded for the world to close the skies over Ukraine.

Putin looks like he is using the same strategy as in Syria. Close in and surround then bombard from the air until the towns and cities are demolished forcing surrender.
Putin does not recognise Ukraine as an independent country and therefore its people. He is destroying it. There might be a case for describing it as genocide.
 
There is growing dissent in Russia against the invasion, let's hope the people rise up and string Putin up as the Italians did with Mussolini over his support for Hitler.
 
TQ2Spurs said:
There is growing dissent in Russia against the invasion, let's hope the people rise up and string Putin up as the Italians did with Mussolini over his support for Hitler.
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A long way from that I am afraid TQ, 95% of Russians have been brainwashed by their media into 'righteousness' of the supposed reason for the invasion'....neo nazis rife and protection of their enclaves such as Donetsk from genocide FFS where does that view come from.... ...years of oppression and false news I'm sure....its in their DNA that the world is out to get them
Lets hope the small tide swells rapidly against the state.
 
Greavswasthegreatest said:
A long way from that I am afraid TQ, 95% of Russians have been brainwashed by their media into 'righteousness' of the supposed reason for the invasion'....neo nazis rife and protection of their enclaves such as Donetsk from genocide FFS where does that view come from.... ...years of oppression and false news I'm sure....its in their DNA that the world is out to get them
Lets hope the small tide swells rapidly against the state.
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Yeah I know, but the younger generations are more savvy nowadays and in a world of digital media will know what is really happening, hence the demonstrations we have seen with thousands being detained in the state's crackdown on protests. I live in hope that the dissent will grow as the sanctions begin to bite for the ordinary decent folk in Russia and Belarus.
 
TQ2Spurs said:
Yeah I know, but the younger generations are more savvy nowadays and in a world of digital media will know what is really happening, hence the demonstrations we have seen with thousands being detained in the state's crackdown on protests. I live in hope that the dissent will grow as the sanctions begin to bite for the ordinary decent folk in Russia and Belarus.
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Speaking to old friends in Russia; the biting sanctions are now seen and are being painted by Russian state media as further proof that Russia is being besieged by the West and wants it's breakup; you try and explain why that's all tosh and even my friends who are intelligent, smart people are now thinking that the west has and is targetting ordinary Russians rather than their government ..

Of course, it's expected that our calls are being listened to and there are many pauses and coded answers - they can't be explicit in what they're thinking, but what two are doing is planning to leave, but it's not as simple or as easy as it was a few weeks ago; asset sales are blocked and if going abroad, exchange controls are rigid and you can only take small sums out with to to limited destinations; luckily both bought villas in Turkey some years ago when I did, I sold and they kept theirs and it will be a 'holiday' that they won't rush to return from anytime soon, both have smartly got some Euro's as lifetime saving tucked away in Turkey that should see them through for 6-12 months when they hope that by then some level of sanity will have returned to Putin and his cronies; they're more optimistic about that than I am.

Cleary Putin has come unstuck and he's now got to find a way out of this and yet still be able to claim victory in his objectives - should the Ukrainians do that to save their country or keep trying to win what most think is an unwinnable war?
 
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Ukraine have experienced life as a free and democratic country, I can't see them capitulating and going back to being subjugated by Putin and his cronies. I think they will fight to the end if necessary, even if this is guerilla style after Russia overrun the country if they manage to do so.
 
TQ2Spurs said:
Ukraine have experienced life as a free and democratic country, I can't see them capitulating and going back to being subjugated by Putin and his cronies. I think they will fight to the end if necessary, even if this is guerilla style after Russia overrun the country if they manage to do so.
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For the killings and slaughter to stop of Ukraine's people, somehow Ukraine have to give Russia an exit, if they don't then this will drag on for months and months until Russia deploys even more vast numbers of reserves and flatten the country - yes they are taking mounting losses, but Putin's Russia is spinning so much crap, he could get away with that for years.

The smart middle class Russians are all helping each other to get out, but I wish they'd stay and stand up to him, sadly most Russians outside the cities and the uneducated are all supporting him, the middle classes, the professional classes, the chattering classes are all running away rather than risk 15 years in prison.
 
Spursex said:
For the killings and slaughter to stop of Ukraine's people, somehow Ukraine have to give Russia an exit, if they don't then this will drag on for months and months until Russia deploys even more vast numbers of reserves and flatten the country - yes they are taking mounting losses, but Putin's Russia is spinning so much crap, he could get away with that for years.

The smart middle class Russians are all helping each other to get out, but I wish they'd stay and stand up to him, sadly most Russians outside the cities and the uneducated are all supporting him, the middle classes, the professional classes, the chattering classes are all running away rather than risk 15 years in prison.
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And what would that exit be?....apart from a statrement saying the Ukraine will not join the EU and not therefore join Nato...I see no end to this as Ukraine desire freedom not suppression.
 
Greavswasthegreatest said:
And what would that exit be?....apart from a statrement saying the Ukraine will not join the EU and not therefore join Nato...I see no end to this as Ukraine desire freedom not suppression.
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No idea greavsie, the Russians have a long standing enmity towards the EU as in their eyes they produced the original grounds for conflict in Ukraine, and was their catalyst for their move into the Crimea.

So I did hope that 'allowing' them to join a trading bloc and not a military bloc might give the Russians sufficient 'guarantees' to save face and withdraw; but perhaps that's simply too naive now - if (as looks likely) it comes down to a test of military strength and the ability to use it, then I can only see one 'winner' - other than that as long as our ability to arm and re-arm the Ukraine isn't diminished, this could just run and run and the danger in that for us, is Putin will soon start giving Nato ultimatums if it continues to supply arms that could prove catastrophic for Europe...and if we tell him to do one, then he will have to strategically move against the Baltic states, no matter the cost.

I can only fantasize an end now where Putin is disposed, but even now he enjoys vast support for his limited military operation as most Russians now believe that the West is trying to surround them and break their country apart..

Strategically, the West have played this badly., and Ukraine are paying the price for it now, we can't afford to make any more mistakes now.
 
If Ukraine were to join the EU and Nato it would be bound by their rules. That could be seen as a good thing for Russia as the EU and NATO don't want to escalate military conflict.
 
What sprang to mind trying to look at things from Russias perspective is are the West and USA in particular jointly underhandedly posing a real threat to Russia and us plebes are being played one and in fact Russia and Putin are so so frightened that they are resorting to this carnage.

Nothing in this world is impossible to believe .

I dont personally believe the West is that paranoid as to want to wipe out Russia as an end game...but it seems Putin does!

Do we really really know what all the hidden agendas are in this world?

We believe the Russsians and China are suppresssion regimes and they believe we are corrupt capitalist regimes.... and I put it to you...are we really as free as we think in the West?

Now that should open some debate!
 
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