Ukraine Crisis | Vital Football

Ukraine Crisis

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Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
I am very sad today about this . I didn't think it would happen again after WW2 I thought lessons had been learnt. Sanctions might work but how long will it take while Putin flattens Ukraine. ? Of course I am reluctant to back military action but if its inevitable perhaps it better sooner than later.?
 
Nick Real Deal said:
I am very sad today about this . I didn't think it would happen again after WW2 I thought lessons had been learnt. Sanctions might work but how long will it take while Putin flattens Ukraine. ? Of course I am reluctant to back military action but if its inevitable perhaps it better sooner than later.?
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I highly doubt sanctions will make any difference at all to the road Putin has embarked on. Russian public finances are strong, their foreign currency reserves are high and will grow for awhile yet., whilst the west has been fanning over what to do in the dispute, Russia's military have modernised and become a formidable fighting machine.

Taking Russia on head to head is not an option; Putin has the arsenal to do almost whatever he likes and is by all that we have said and heard from him,' prepared to use it' - if we interfere, this threat of unleashing atomic weapons shouldn't be dismissed.

He believes that he's fighting for Russian autonomy in a world where he thinks he's been and is being surrounded, most Russians support his actions and blame the EU/NATO for bringing them to this point. They see no other way.

Sanctions will affect the average Russian, it will not affect how the Russian government now behaves.

There is a real argument that applying the sanctions we have only made the Russian public finances and economy more robost - they haven't worked and the Russian people's ability to endure for "Mother Russia' as invoked by Putin, is legendary.

The new cold war, assuming we can stop it from turning hot, will now last at least as long as the last one, most especially as China have moved closer and closer to Russia and will now be supporting him, and it would not surprise me (despite what they might say to the World) that they too will look long at hard before 'reclaiming' Taiwan ....unless we are prepared to go into a hot war (that we cannot win), we have no choice but to end all economic co-operation (but I bet we don't)..
 
I am concerned at Putins state of mind. The world has allowed him to prepare for this and fed his economy to do so.
He's been given the time and the means.
If its going to turn hot, preparations need to be made now rather than hope it doesn't escalate. I hope Boris and our allies are using sanctions only as a cloak to cover a hot response.

If Putin is considering using Nukes in response to a conventional response then its effectively over anyway. Russia and China will take over.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
I am concerned at Putins state of mind. The world has allowed him to prepare for this and fed his economy to do so.
He's been given the time and the means.
If its going to turn hot, preparations need to be made now rather than hope it doesn't escalate. I hope Boris and our allies are using sanctions only as a cloak to cover a hot response.

If Putin is considering using Nukes in response to a conventional response then its effectively over anyway. Russia and China will take over.
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We will not put boots on the ground, nor can we impose a no-fly zone; all the cards are in Putin's hands.

He'll use tactical nukes and even strikes into the West if we did, and we won't risk that.

It's sanctions or rhetoric, literally, that's all we have. He's prepared for a very long cold war and with China's backing, he won't have to submit to anything; already I'm hearing that Chinese banks are stepping in to assist and taking over payment platforms and even opening up swift to deal with expected bigger volumes.

Personally, I'll be amazed if the Ukrainian forces don't capitulate within a week or two; at least their conventional military forces anyway.

Ukraine as we once knew it will no longer exist and there is nothing we can do about it that will make one iota of difference to Putin.

As I said, the oligarchs may take some financial punishment, but whatever sanctions we think we'll bring to the Russian economy I believe will have a very limited effect.

Putin has completely out-maneuvered the West and he'll be a hero to the Russian people for decades and decades to come.
 
Any nation aiding Russia should have the same sanctions imposed by the rest of the world.
The world economy is under pressure now on top of the Covid cost.
Ukraine will fight back, even if it means street by street.
The world could support them with military hardware and knowhow.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
Any nation aiding Russia should have the same sanctions imposed by the rest of the world.
The world economy is under pressure now on top of the Covid cost.
Ukraine will fight back, even if it means street by street.
The world could support them with military hardware and knowhow.
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Where the 'World' can, it will supply hardware and supplies - assuming it can get through, but the blockade that the Russian forces are now beginning to impose means that this will be a short-lived opportunity.

As I suspected; we have NOT excluded them and their banks from the
world inter-bank payments system (SWIFT) - this should have been the first step, not the last.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/w...k-wants-russia-thrown-out-from-170555303.html
 
Boris is doing his best big man speech.

As much as I don't want Russia taking over other countries I really hope we stay out of it.

There is nothing to gain getting involved.

It's so sad that a man is so insecure that he has to start a war.

If a higher being is watching from close by, step in and take Putin out.
 
Real Deal said:
Boris is doing his best big man speech.

As much as I don't want Russia taking over other countries I really hope we stay out of it.

There is nothing to gain getting involved.

It's so sad that a man is so insecure that he has to start a war.

If a higher being is watching from close by, step in and take Putin out.
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If Putin attacks a Nato country we are compelled as a Nato member to get involved I think. Ukraine is not a member but Bulgaria and Poland are.
 
Real Deal said:
Why does it always seem to be UK and USA?

Other countries rarely get mentioned.
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Because Germany are verging on being pacifists after WW2, France are useless, Italy well we know about their war heroes etc etc. The only countries with real bottle are U.K. and USA, but don’t write off Poland. I am amazed that the West has no contingency plan for a unit like the SAS to take Putin out. That has to be a primary objective surely.
 
spurs1954 said:
Because Germany are verging on being pacifists after WW2, France are useless, Italy well we know about their war heroes etc etc. The only countries with real bottle are U.K. and USA, but don’t write off Poland. I am amazed that the West has no contingency plan for a unit like the SAS to take Putin out. That has to be a primary objective surely.
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Apparently according to a recently retired Rear Admiral, there are layers of even worse nutters behind Putin ready to take over if he's taken out. They would all need taking out.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
Apparently according to a recently retired Rear Admiral, there are layers of even worse nutters behind Putin ready to take over if he's taken out. They would all need taking out.
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The in-depth layers in their military are barely being kept under control, even by Putin - it's been known for years what their attitudes are and hence, believe it or not, Putin is a known quantity and the lesser evil.

Germany and France have let us down yet again as they both stand opposed to kicking them out of SWIFT and direct sanctions on Putin and the cadre around him.

It was ever thus. So much for solidarity and so much for the EU's collective decision-making.

I spoke with my Russian friends last night, whilst they say they didn't want war, the vast majority of Russians believe they had no choice and all were laughing at the so-called draconian sanctions planned; yes a few banks and very rich Russians will be hurt in the short term, but pretty much that's it; we'll keep buying their gas and increasing their coffers at an even higher rate than before.

The Russians have out-foxed us at every turn and on every level and Biden looks and sounds about as steadfast as a poppy seed. The Russians have moved at the point of our maximum weakness.
 
Toothless response ...the West (quite rightly though) are scared shitless that if they do anything drastic it will lead to a Nuclear war in the end....Putin and his nutters as EX calls them are quite capable of instigating armageddon..
 
Greavswasthegreatest said:
Toothless response ...the West (quite rightly though) are scared shitless that if they do anything drastic it will lead to a Nuclear war in the end....Putin and his nutters as EX calls them are quite capable of instigating armageddon..
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Sadly our 'allies' are pussies - this is their 'Munich' moment, they would rather appease than oppose: I expected more from Biden, but he is as weak a character as we've ever seen in an American President, they'll pay a big pice for this weakness..bye bye Taiwan..the rise of the Chinese-Russo axis now will be relentless.


Ben Wallace: UK wants to cut Russia off from SWIFT but needs worldwide cooperation
Britain would like to cut off Russia from the SWIFT global interbank payments system, but needs other countries to cooperate, Ben Wallace said.
The Defence Secretary said: "We would like to go further, we'd like to do the SWIFT system - that is the financial system that allows the Russians to move money around the world to receive payments for its gas.
"But... these are international organisations and if not every country wants them to be thrown out of the SWIFT system, it becomes difficult."
Joe Biden said on Thursday that the US and the EU have decided not to cut Russia off from SWIFT, but he said they could revisit the issue.
 
If our only option is financial squeezing and most of world follows suit. Will it hurt China and Russia and how long would it take ?
 
Sanctions take years to hurt countries. Russia have a 600B war chest apparently. With China helping out they will be fine.

The world has 2 options.

1. Go to war with Russia.

2. Let Russia take over Ukraine and help out the refugees as much as we can.

Putin won't stop at Ukraine now, no chance. He wants the old USSR back. I suspect he will succeed as I can't see other countries going to war with them.
 
Nato can strengthen defences in Latvia, Moldova, Poland etc. In readiness for further invasions or to pressure Russia once Ukraine has fallen. Nato also could back Ukraine with military hardware and knowhow.

The world has to withdraw all trade including gas and suffer the consequences of their energy strategies. This should not be we are alright Jack. !!
 
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