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moonay

Vital Champions League
#61
We do however have an indication of Labours policy on dealing with this from the Welsh government.

A circuit break that didn't work albeit implemented about the time that SKS was calling for the same in England.
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I'm not sure we can make such an assumption, simply by equating Starmer's national proposal (all of UK) to the (effectively) regional approach of Wales.

Full lockdown and Christmas all but cancelled at the last minute despite the promise of a relaxation for the period .

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I think this is purely down to the PM's blatant (and failed) attempt at populism

As I keep reiterating I am loathe to get involved in a political debate but it would seem that some peoples vision is being distorted by party politics. Look around, every government is making mistakes and getting stick from their political opponents as they try to make the best of an unprecedented pandemic.

I lost my faith in any politician after the expenses scandal and what I see now in the midst of all this is that they are unable to come together to find a way forward in unity.
I don't think I've brought politics into it to be honest TB .......... we've just been discussing the competence of the PM and his cabinet. Again, I've been happy to offer praise where deserved. Let's remember, the PM chose to get rid of a significant number of some of his more experienced ministers, all because they didn't share his view re the B word. Hence, we were left with the best of the rest!
 

moonay

Vital Champions League
#63
I don’t think there’s anything in that I can disagree with. It’s an evolving situation and something unprecedented for most nations in the modern era. Mistakes are inevitable, people are naive if they think different. I don’t think Labour would have done any better and I suspect we’d have been in full lockdown for longer. It wouldn’t have made much difference. A national unity approach is a sensible suggestion, but other than avoiding political backbiting again I don’t the outcome would be any different.
In turn, I agree with most of this ......... though your opinion re Labour's possible success is of course just your opinion ........ and who's to say that a longer lockdown wasn't the right thing to do.

For me, all the mistakes the first time round were understandable, and mostly forgiveable ...................... anything since August though is down to the failure of government tactics.
 

jocklatic

Vital Squad Member
#64
We do however have an indication of Labours policy on dealing with this from the Welsh government.

A circuit break that didn't work albeit implemented about the time that SKS was calling for the same in England.

Full lockdown and Christmas all but cancelled at the last minute despite the promise of a relaxation for the period .

No alcoholic drinks for sale in bars and restaurants. ( Happy No ale indeed)

As I keep reiterating I am loathe to get involved in a political debate but it would seem that some peoples vision is being distorted by party politics. Look around, every government is making mistakes and getting stick from their political opponents as they try to make the best of an unprecedented pandemic.

I lost my faith in any politician after the expenses scandal and what I see now in the midst of all this is that they are unable to come together to find a way forward in unity.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏....mines to when the expenses scandal broke & not many were brought to justice...coupled with their 'vote themselves a nice pay rise' & they wonder why a vast majority of the general public don't like / despise them.
 

Tenfut

Vital Youth Team
#65
I'm not sure we can make such an assumption, simply by equating Starmer's national proposal (all of UK) to the (effectively) regional approach of Wales.



I think this is purely down to the PM's blatant (and failed) attempt at populism


I don't think I've brought politics into it to be honest TB .......... we've just been discussing the competence of the PM and his cabinet. Again, I've been happy to offer praise where deserved. Let's remember, the PM chose to get rid of a significant number of some of his more experienced ministers, all because they didn't share his view re the B word. Hence, we were left with the best of the rest!
HARVIE_BitterNTwisted-new.png
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#67
In turn, I agree with most of this ......... though your opinion re Labour's possible success is of course just your opinion ........ and who's to say that a longer lockdown wasn't the right thing to do.

For me, all the mistakes the first time round were understandable, and mostly forgiveable ...................... anything since August though is down to the failure of government tactics.
Drakeford hasn’t been a roaring success so it’s not unreasonable to use Labours performance there as a benchmark. Undoubtedly they’d have caved to the unions and kept schools shut. Even more money would have been handed out and as I said we’d have been in lockdown for longer. None of it would have eradicated or reduced the spread and the vaccine wouldn’t have been approved any quicker. Still, captain hindsight would have been forced into making a decision or two. Or maybe not.
 

moonay

Vital Champions League
#68
Of course it's unreasonable. They're two different people for a start.

As for a longer lockdown, I think the issue would have been entering the second one earlier, instead of dithering/trying to live up to the earlier false (popular) promises.

Lockdowns worked. Half hearted ones didn't.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#69
Of course it's unreasonable. They're two different people for a start.

As for a longer lockdown, I think the issue would have been entering the second one earlier, instead of dithering/trying to live up to the earlier false (popular) promises.

Lockdowns worked. Half hearted ones didn't.
It didn’t work in Wales. So that comparison is perfectly reasonable..
 

moonay

Vital Champions League
#70
Wales is a region in this context. Greater Manchester and Merseyside regional lockdowns worked. All labour run. However, Starmer wanted a full national action. Not sure how you draw parallels in any of the cases.

I also doubt Starmer would have been crowing about us having a world beating test track and trace system when it was patently a lie.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#71
Wales is a region in this context. Greater Manchester and Merseyside regional lockdowns worked. All labour run. However, Starmer wanted a full national action. Not sure how you draw parallels in any of the cases.

I also doubt Starmer would have been crowing about us having a world beating test track and trace system when it was patently a lie.
Wales get to make their own decisions on this. And the evidence suggests they haven’t done too well with a nationwide lockdown. Supermarkets there even roped off baby clothes for Gods sake. Liverpool and GM had tier conditions imposed, - which given you say they worked must mean you think are a good idea. Would have worked quicker too in GM if it wasn’t for that tit Burnham trying to negotiate in the middle of a pandemic.
 

moonay

Vital Champions League
#72
And yet, all the things "that tit Burnham" negotiated for were granted as soon as it affected London.

Think we've reached stalemate ........ Up to Johnson to break it now with his next move.
 

TRUE BELIEVER

Vital 1st Team Regular
#73
I'm not sure we can make such an assumption, simply by equating Starmer's national proposal (all of UK) to the (effectively) regional approach of Wales.



I think this is purely down to the PM's blatant (and failed) attempt at populism


I don't think I've brought politics into it to be honest TB .......... we've just been discussing the competence of the PM and his cabinet. Again, I've been happy to offer praise where deserved. Let's remember, the PM chose to get rid of a significant number of some of his more experienced ministers, all because they didn't share his view re the B word. Hence, we were left with the best of the rest!
I feel this is becoming more political than intended.

My point regarding the approach of Mark Drakeford in Wales was simply to show that regardless of their political leanings they can all make a balls of it. Drakeford has obviously been in contact with his English counterparts and as such I think it is valid to make the comparison.

As far as the last paragraph goes, I would say that is an argument I don't wish to enter.
 

Nottingham

Vital Squad Member
#74
Wales is a region in this context. Greater Manchester and Merseyside regional lockdowns worked. All labour run. However, Starmer wanted a full national action. Not sure how you draw parallels in any of the cases.

I also doubt Starmer would have been crowing about us having a world beating test track and trace system when it was patently a lie.
I think, logically, that the measures taken should correspond to relative population densities. If you look at map as that identify where infection rates are highest i.e. generally in urban areas. Rural areas, such as Cornwall, Devon and Norfolk, tend to have lower rates than the metropolitan areas. I think this is highly predictable due to reasons to do with rates of social contact, use of public transport etc. I think that this should have been predicted from the outset by these so called scientists. All urban areas should have had more severe measures taken against them months ago. It's ridiculous to put, for example, Merseyside and Greater Manchester into different tiers when, probability would suggest that they have the same underlying characteristics.
 

Hampton

Vital 1st Team Regular
#76
What has Anderson got to do with Burnham?Burnhams counterpart in Merseyside is Steve Rotherham,Anderson is Mayor of Liverpool and that is a council appointment not a public election! Different position altogether!!
Two wrongs (in unnecessary jobs and tiers of local government) don't make a right !
 

Hampton

Vital 1st Team Regular
#77
It seems that Starmer is the one who is "Damned if you do and damned if you don't."

;)
And so he should be knee taking posh champagne socialist , privileged upbringing, donkey sanctuary owner and more seriously apologist for Naz Shah - Mr Hindsight deserves all he gets 🎣
 
#78
No one could have done no better. Just imagine if that idiot Corbin had been in charge. This virus changes every day. All the world leaders have made mistakes. It’s all right say we would have done this done that. But would they. Scots and welsh all done different thing. But now we are all shutting down.
we are saying that what has been done, is the minimum we as citizens would expect from any government. The duty of any government is to look after the welfare of its citizens.
What you have said about Corbyn, is what Jeffsright said we we have no idea what would have been done.
I thought you were trying to argue the same thing as Jeffsright, rather than argue against him.
 

Mighty Bongsmon

Vital Squad Member
#80
And so he should be knee taking posh champagne socialist , privileged upbringing, donkey sanctuary owner and more seriously apologist for Naz Shah - Mr Hindsight deserves all he gets 🎣
I'm not by any means a fan of Starmer but privileged upbringing??? His dad was a factory worker & his mum was initially a nurse & then spent most of his childhood in & out of hospital with an illness that mean she eventually had to give up work.
If you can't get a basic fact like that right then it tends to nullify the rest of your argument. Fishing or not ;)